Carson Has Asked to be Traded... (Mike Brown says no trade)

[futurecoach]

Now I could see that happening.

 

I'd get rid of any troublemaker.

 

 

Seems like an excuse from Palmer. No matter how bad Brat's playcalling is that has no bearing on Palmer throwing inaccurately IMO. I hope he goes somewhere else so there are no more excuses for or from him.

 

And why do you care what I think anyway? Just because I want the Bengals to blow it up and start over doesn't mean that that they will do that and it doesn't change how you view the situation.

 

As you known the Bengals have receivers who like to run their own routes sometimes. I am sure you know in the NFL especially when throwing the ball it is all about timing, and people being at their right depth at the right time. What happens if the receiver is not at that spot, or say a yard shorter or longer? That is right the pass will not be right there, could be high, behind them or something. I am sure that is just an excuse though right? Especially since the Bengal coaches have even said that has been the main reason for some of them. Also what happens when you have to rush throws because of pressure, usually your passes are going to be off some. I mean just look at some of the top passers in the NFL, what happens when they have pressure on them? They look very ordinary, and as we seen in the playoffs with Brady, and Manning they get beat.

[stick1]

Great for him. San Fran would be an excellent fit w Harbaugh coming in. A Smith and draft pick.

[Voice of Reason]

I am by no means trying to defend anyone in the Bengals organization, but from what I understand, Katie is the reason why Corey Dillon stuck around for longer than he did. I can also say that is the only instance of Katie being involved with anything specific in the front office.

 

I heard that the reason Marvin was hired was because of Katie pushing for him. I think she would hire a GM. Mikey thinks because he played QB at an Ivy League school he is qualified to make personnel decisions. Katie will recognize that she is not someone who judges NFL talent and bring in a high level person to fill that role. That's my opinion.

[StickerMann]

Sorry to ruin all of you guys' predictions, but Mike Brown is alive and well?? Speculation about what Katie would do are as absurd as the Bengal's management. As frustrated as I am with the team I've supported since their inception, and their inept leader of 20+ years; I'd rather endure another 20 years of "Bengal-dom" than wish ill will to Mike Brown??

[Blue Magic]

Who is wishing ill will? It's being noted that the best thing for the Bengals is Mike Brown not having ownership any longer. That day won't come until he passes. No one is wishing it upon him.

[SportsGuy41017]

Who is wishing ill will? It's being noted that the best thing for the Bengals is Mike Brown not having ownership any longer. That day won't come until he passes. No one is wishing it upon him.

Agreed 100! Unless people come straight out and say they wish Mike would just die already people need to not jump to conclusions on what others meant. And people go out of their way (which is not necessary) to say words like "it's sad" when they mention it, meaning the ONLY way this organization will change is when he is no longer in charge, and as you stated, that won't happen until he passes.

Edited January 24, 2011 by SportsGuy41017

[SportsGuy41017]

I hope this turns out to be true, especially for Palmer's sake!! If so, it looks like someone with some credibility, finally has the nerve to stand up and speak out about the laughable way this franchise is being run!! While he certainly didn't have the best of years in 2010, there would be multiple opportunities for CP elsewhere; including several on the West coast (Virtually anyone but San Diego). How about Minnesota--They're only a good QB away from being a serious contender?

 

I will guarantee one thing to all those who are wishing to show Palmer the door--WHOEVER Mikey finds to "replace" him, will be a downgrade, and probably a large downgrade. I give CP credit for not spouting off and defending himself, as I would bet that much of the issues he had this year were receiver and offensive play calling related. Hope he tells it like it is, because the sheep obviously will continue to support Mikey, and line his family's pockets with $$'s!!

Agreed! People have to realize, this isn't Chad or Dillion, this is PALMER spouting off about the team! This is NOT how Carson operates. The team is really in a much worse state of affairs if he is demanding a trade, much worse than most have ever thought. Plus, he is willing to pass up 50 million to just walk away, that should speak volumes!

 

I figured Palmer would be content, just play out his contract and not make waves, typical Palmer style. As you said, Palmer has credibility and he is standing up to the organization, would this get through to Brown and he finally changes his ways? I wouldn't bet on it.

[StickerMann]

Agreed! People have to realize, this isn't Chad or Dillion, this is PALMER spouting off about the team! This is NOT how Carson operates. The team is really in a much worse state of affairs if he is demanding a trade, much worse than most have ever thought. Plus, he is willing to pass up 50 million to just walk away, that should speak volumes!

 

I figured Palmer would be content, just play out his contract and not make waves, typical Palmer style. As you said, Palmer has credibility and he is standing up to the organization, would this get through to Brown and he finally changes his ways? I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Hope this might get through to Mikey too, but wouldn't risk my money either?? :irked::cry:

[Qryche11]

I dont blame Palmer one bit. He has struggled but so would any top level QB who has to rely on 3 starting lineman who were on the practice squad. At some point you have to decide whats best for you and your family. Im sure quality of life comes into play here also. He has been a true professional for 8 yrs and sees that nothing will ever change. He wants to win and is financially set. Id say he is the one holding the best cards here.

[leatherneck]

Could be that CP believes the Bengals O next year is going to be heavily focused on running the ball (which it should have been this past year) and he knows he only has at best a couple of good years left playing and wants them to be in a pass first O. Bengals O line's strength is running the ball; not pass blocking. 60-70% of the Bengals plays should be rushes and 90% of the Bengal's passes should come off of run play action fakes, which requires the QB to have some mobility (that CP no longers possesses).

 

If I had to guess why CP wants out, it would be because he sees a change in offensive philosophy coming and it's not one that emphasizes him passing the ball a lot out of the gun. Or at least I'm hoping that is what is allegedly causing him to want to leave, because I believe the Bengals need to return to the O offense that enabled them to win the division a couple of years ago. Run the ball a lot, eat up the clock, use the run to set up the pass, and keep the D on the sidelines and fresh for when they get into the game. I don't watch enough pro football to know it, but I thought I heard in the run up to yesterday's AFC championship some analysts say that has been the Steelers O philosophy over the years. Whatever the Steelers O system has been, if I'm the Brown family and Lewis, I'm copying it. One doesnt' know what went on behind closed doors, but I wouldn't be shocked if Lewis told Mike and Katie that unless he had the final say in play calling, he was gone. It wouldn't surprise me that he told the Brown family that if he was to come back, he was going to turn the O into a run first O. And it wouldn't surprise me if Palmer objected to it to the Brown family. If my guesses are correct, such set the table for Palmer to want to leave.

 

As for Katie and her knowledge of the game/players and her willingness to hire a GM down the road: all I know is that years ago when I used to be pretty close to her, she had an extensive knowledge of the game and the players. Extensive. Ask her about any player and she could recite the player's 40 time; shuttle time; vertical leap; weight lifting test results; etc. She knew a whole lot about different offensive and defensive systems. It was very impressive. She really knew a lot about the game and all the players physical talents and that was before she even went inside the Bengals management. I have to think she knows even more now about the game and players now than she did then. She is a very, very bright, knowledgable person.

 

Which ironically may be a cause of the Bengals problems over the years and Lewis' frustrations. The Brown family really does know a lot about the game. Perhaps too much and they take great pride in the fact that, unlike a lot of owners that have a lot of money but little knowledge of the game, they do know a lot about the game. That knowledge and pride in their knowledge may cause them to get too intertwined in on field decisions, which undermines the coaches. I can see the Brown family being behind the decision to pass the ball more this past year because they are "in love" with Palmer (I've seen the Brown family do it before-think Stanley Wilson of the past). Maybe Lewis drew a line in the sand for this upcoming year and his desire to emphasize the run and the Brown family has capitulated, which is a develpment that Palmer doesn't like. The decisions to bring back Henry years ago and to bring in TO this year (decisions that I hear Lewis did not like but Palmer did) were made in my opinion by the Brown family to emphasize the pass game and emphasize Palmer.

 

If Palmer does indeed want out, it may be because Lewis has finally gotten the Brown family to agree to stay out of on the field decisions and Palmer doesn't like where he thinks that may take the Bengals O this coming year. Obviously all speculation on my behalf but what the heck, we're all throwing out guesses.

[Voice of Reason]

Two points in response to your post LN.

 

1. I don't believe the Bengals offensive line's strength is in running the ball. They were last in the NFL this year in rushing yards per carry. Fans kept screaming for them to run the ball more but when you are last in the NFL at something, should you keep doing it? They finished in the middle of the pack in rushing attempts per game which really is an amazing stat considering they were last in rushing effectiveness and trailed in most games. If they want to be a run first team, there is a LOT of work to be done this off season.

 

2. I am sure Katie is very sharp but knowing the stats is not the same as being able to evaluate talent. There is a lot to be said about watching tape and seeing a player in person versus stats. I have to believe that Katie will be sharp enough to realize the Bengals need someone who can truly evaluate talent in the front office, regardless of whatever title you decide to give the person.

[bugatti]

 

The Ocho weighed in with this tweet: "Carson Palmer demands a trade? Last person demanded a trade in Cincy was crucified by the media n had to win the fans back. how will this go?"

Poor Ocho :cry:

 

In response to some themes of this thread:

 

- To get a first rounder, a team must believe he is first round worthy. Maybe 1/2 of Carson's seasons have been first round worthy... most teams are not going to gamble on something like that.

- If people think Brad Childress was a good offensive coordinator, why was he third in line for play calling his last year's in Philly? In Minnesota, Favre saved his job (and got him fired), but he was not the coach of that team and in the player's circle Childress is looked at as a joke. Might be an upgrade, but not what you need.

- I think Carson sees the writing on the wall. Right, wrong, or indifferent he sees an organizational shift and realizes it will be at the tail end of his career before any of it comes to fruition. And given the decades of ineptitude, it probably will never come to fruition. I have no problem if he does not want to hang around for that.

- I still believe if put in the right situation, Carson can excel and maximize his capabilities. That does not mean top 5 QB level like many of our glass half fullers on here believe, but a solid QB in this league.

- I am all for bringing in Vince Young or Cam Newton. If you are going to be bad, at least be interesting.

[leatherneck]

VOR, good points. Some things to consider in response:

 

1. Didn't they win the division in 09 by emphasizing the run? What happened from 09 to 10? Did they lose a lot of offensive linemen from 09 to 10 ( I really don't know the answer to that question)? Did Benson lose a lot for 09 to 10? Is it possible that all the time spent on trying to improve the passing game during the off season and during practices (trying to get down the timing between TO and Palmer for example) could have hurt the run game in 10? I believe to run the ball effectively, you must stick with it the entire game. Sure when you are down 14 with 3 minutes left in the game, but down by 14 at half or even mid way through the third quarter, I'm still running the ball 70-80% of the time if I think my best offense is the run. Did the Bengals stay that committed to the run in 10? I think that if you are a running team, you stick with it and literally grind and wear down your opponent. I didn't watch the Bengals much this year (not a pro fan) but the little I did watch, they didn't seem committed to the run game and quickly gave up on it, which may explain the decrease in yds per rush this past year. In my mind based on my limited watching time, the Bengals O never gained an identity this past season. They didn't know what they were. I blame that heavily on trying to turn a rushing offense into a passing offense and in doing so, they weakened what had been, just a year earlier, a very good running offense.

 

2. I don't necessarily disagree with your point about knowing stats is not the same as evaluating talent. In fact, I think the Brown family puts (or I should say put when I was closer to them) too much emphasis on raw physical skills and not enough on heart, brains, desire and team chemistry. I'm not sure hiring a GM is the answer though. I think the key is trusting your head coach and allowing him to run the team (both from choosing personnel and making on field decisions). Hopefully they'll allow Lewis to do so. I really hope that was part of the "change" that Lewis talked about in his decision to return. And IF that means going back to a run game and Palmer leaving because he wants to play in a passing offense, then so be it.

[SSC]

LN, they didn't run the ball as well because they played the toughest schedule in the league this year and last year they played a garbage schedule. Next year they play an easier one and they'll run it better.

[Voice of Reason]

VOR, good points. Some things to consider in response:

 

1. Didn't they win the division in 09 by emphasizing the run? What happened from 09 to 10? Did they lose a lot of offensive linemen from 09 to 10 ( I really don't know the answer to that question)? Did Benson lose a lot for 09 to 10? Is it possible that all the time spent on trying to improve the passing game during the off season and during practices (trying to get down the timing between TO and Palmer for example) could have hurt the run game in 10? I believe to run the ball effectively, you must stick with it the entire game. Sure when you are down 14 with 3 minutes left in the game, but down by 14 at half or even mid way through the third quarter, I'm still running the ball 70-80% of the time if I think my best offense is the run. Did the Bengals stay that committed to the run in 10? I think that if you are a running team, you stick with it and literally grind and wear down your opponent. I didn't watch the Bengals much this year (not a pro fan) but the little I did watch, they didn't seem committed to the run game and quickly gave up on it, which may explain the decrease in yds per rush this past year. In my mind based on my limited watching time, the Bengals O never gained an identity this past season. They didn't know what they were. I blame that heavily on trying to turn a rushing offense into a passing offense and in doing so, they weakened what had been, just a year earlier, a very good running offense.

 

2. I don't necessarily disagree with your point about knowing stats is not the same as evaluating talent. In fact, I think the Brown family puts (or I should say put when I was closer to them) too much emphasis on raw physical skills and not enough on heart, brains, desire and team chemistry. I'm not sure hiring a GM is the answer though. I think the key is trusting your head coach and allowing him to run the team (both from choosing personnel and making on field decisions). Hopefully they'll allow Lewis to do so. I really hope that was part of the "change" that Lewis talked about in his decision to return. And IF that means going back to a run game and Palmer leaving because he wants to play in a passing offense, then so be it.

 

1. I think the big differences between 2009 and 2010 rushing were tougher schedule and right tackle was weak all year for Cincy. I think you are right about no offensive identity as well. And maybe others on the offensive line just had bad years. Finally, I think a lot of the extra rushes and yards in 2009 happened because the Bengals were playing in front in the 4th quarter and running clock versus playing from behind in Q4 all year this season.

 

2. I can live with a coach being the talent evaluator if he is good at it and has control. Jimmie Johnson was a great talent evaluator while being the coach during his Cowboy years. I believe Marvin is above average in this area and would get even better results if he had complete control.