Perception Of The Patriots & Suggested Punishment?

[GreyFox]

Hypothetical....So Brady likes the football deflated, that's been confirmed. What if the Patriots inflate them to the lowest possible pressure, then intentionally sit them out in the elements so they naturally deflate? In your opinion, is that cheating, or is it just a clever way to gain an advantage?

 

As to the Colts, maybe Luck is like Rodgers and prefers throwing a ball that is as inflated as possible. If so, it'd make sense for them to keep the balls in conditions or do everything in their power to keep them from deflating, right?

 

Who knows at this point, but I don't think it's that far out of the realm of possibility.

 

They showed video of the ball boy getting a ball to give to the officials at the start of a series and he was getting it out of a ball bag. I can't see how it is possible for the balls to lose over 2 lbs of pressure in the short time they were inspected to when they tested them at halftime. Especially since the Colts footballs were still legal at the same time.

[PurplePride92]

Hypothetical....So Brady likes the football deflated, that's been confirmed. What if the Patriots inflate them to the lowest possible pressure, then intentionally sit them out in the elements so they naturally deflate? In your opinion, is that cheating, or is it just a clever way to gain an advantage?

 

As to the Colts, maybe Luck is like Rodgers and prefers throwing a ball that is as inflated as possible. If so, it'd make sense for them to keep the balls in conditions or do everything in their power to keep them from deflating, right?

 

Who knows at this point, but I don't think it's that far out of the realm of possibility.

 

I'm more apt to believe this than to believe they purposely cheated.

[ggclfan]

One thing just occurred to me. Supposedly, the Colts complained to the league that the Pats footballs were below pressure guidelines after the FIRST game they played. If that is the case, wouldn't the league warn the Patriots not to do this again at that point? Especially since Goodell is such good buddies with Kraft, that would seem to make sense. The last thing the league wants right now is this situation tainting the SB lead up...especially this year with all the other bad news Goodell has had to deal with. If the league did warn the Pats, the Pats are either really clueless (knowing the league and the Colts would be looking for this) or UKMustang's hypothetical makes more sense.

[JokersWild24]

I'd imagine that them just being in the elements is probably going to be hard for the NFL to police, but not really sure that they'd make such a noticeable difference. Plenty of teams play in the cold, and you really don't hear about this happening. If it's happening to yours, it should probably be happening to the other team's as well.

 

Policy-wise, the NFL probably doesn't want teams messing with the balls, so I'd imagine re-inflating them often, even if you were doing it within the guidelines according to PSI/weight, or any similar actions would be looked down upon because it'd be too hard for the officials to enforce. There's probably an explicit rule against tampering with the balls PSI/weight once approved.

 

They are weighed before the game to ensure you are at a regulation weight and are probably designed/engineered well enough that they don't really see a significant loss of pressure. Given that, I'd think the league's competition committee won't take kindly to someone playing the "ok, it's the right weight now, so lets go do all we can to change it" game, at least to the degree New England did it.

 

I'd imagine that there was probably a significant difference in the feel of the balls at proper weight vs two pounds too light, otherwise, why go through all the trouble? I really doubt Belichick is dumb enough to let anyone see that the balls are corrected, meaning someone noticed, then try the exact thing again immediately afterward.

 

Just a guess, but since 11 of the 12 were underweight, meaning one was the proper weight, then I'm inclined to think that they purposefully left one as is for a reason. If there was an issue where they were called on it and they throw in the one proper one, then it's much more likely that someone thinks it's just one ball and things don't seem as awry as they would if they found out 10 of the remaining 11 were the same.

[HoopsLady]

I'd imagine that them just being in the elements is probably going to be hard for the NFL to police, but not really sure that they'd make such a noticeable difference. Plenty of teams play in the cold, and you really don't hear about this happening. If it's happening to yours, it should probably be happening to the other team's as well.

 

Policy-wise, the NFL probably doesn't want teams messing with the balls, so I'd imagine re-inflating them often, even if you were doing it within the guidelines according to PSI/weight, or any similar actions would be looked down upon because it'd be too hard for the officials to enforce. There's probably an explicit rule against tampering with the balls PSI/weight once approved.

 

They are weighed before the game to ensure you are at a regulation weight and are probably designed/engineered well enough that they don't really see a significant loss of pressure. Given that, I'd think the league's competition committee won't take kindly to someone playing the "ok, it's the right weight now, so lets go do all we can to change it" game, at least to the degree New England did it.

 

I'd imagine that there was probably a significant difference in the feel of the balls at proper weight vs two pounds too light, otherwise, why go through all the trouble? I really doubt Belichick is dumb enough to let anyone see that the balls are corrected, meaning someone noticed, then try the exact thing again immediately afterward.

 

Just a guess, but since 11 of the 12 were underweight, meaning one was the proper weight, then I'm inclined to think that they purposefully left one as is for a reason. If there was an issue where they were called on it and they throw in the one proper one, then it's much more likely that someone thinks it's just one ball and things don't seem as awry as they would if they found out 10 of the remaining 11 were the same.

 

First of all, weight is irrelevant , since the ball itself can absorb moisture and gain or lose weight depending upon moisture accumulation. Second, the relevant measurement is inflated air pressure. Balls can start the game at a higher pressure and then lose pressure simply by reducing the temperature by exposure to ambient conditions. I guess nobody here remembers the ideal gas law??? Fourth, have you noticed any of those Gronk spikes? Think you could lose a little air pressure there? I think so.

 

The NFL will find that the balls lose pressure by exposure to ambient conditions and through use. This will all boil over and all the Patriot haters will be red faced.

[futurecoach]

I'm more apt to believe this than to believe they purposely cheated.

 

Why? If that was the case you would think at least one or two of the colts footballs would have deflated enough to go under the legal limit. However what has been said is all the colts ones were fine. The Pats have proven they will push it to the absolute limit and sometimes passed the limit as obvious with spygate for them to gain any advantage possible. For all 12 balls to be lower than what is allowed, when some were in a bag to help keep warm then that theory is hard to believe.

 

As I said before I doubt the Pats decided that this was the game they were going to try this. Its probably has been common practice for them during cold weather or bad weather conditions. They push things to the limits and beyond. They just got caught this time. Which right now the risk is less than the reward. So they had no fear in trying it.

[JokersWild24]

First of all, weight is irrelevant , since the ball itself can absorb moisture and gain or lose weight depending upon moisture accumulation. Second, the relevant measurement is inflated air pressure. Balls can start the game at a higher pressure and then lose pressure simply by reducing the temperature by exposure to ambient conditions. I guess nobody here remembers the ideal gas law??? Fourth, have you noticed any of those Gronk spikes? Think you could lose a little air pressure there? I think so.

 

The NFL will find that the balls lose pressure by exposure to ambient conditions and through use. This will all boil over and all the Patriot haters will be red faced.

 

 

I'm unsure if you're being completely serious or a bit facetious, so I'll say that I think you have some fair points, but let's be real: regulation weights are 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch. To be 2 pounds below the 12.5 PSI threshold, that's around 15-16% of the total weight, and that's being generous enough to say that they would have otherwise been inflated to exactly 12.5 PSI.

 

If the elements alone are causing balls to lose 15-16% of their total weight (again, at the very minimum), then you'd have to think that the NFL is going to find a new supplier who can develop a ball that stays inflated. You don't hear about this being an issue in Lambeau, Buffalo, New York, Minnesota, etc., so why is it suddenly such a big deal? There's no way that someone makes a straight faced argument that the NFL can't find a supplier to manufacture a ball that can stay inflated.

[halfback20]

 

They were all fine after the game. So either they were only leaky in the first half or....

 

I thought they used different balls after half time...

[Jim Schue]

I thought they used different balls after half time...

 

Everything I read says they pumped them up at halftime. Unless the story's changed since then …

[HoopsLady]

I'm unsure if you're being completely serious or a bit facetious, so I'll say that I think you have some fair points, but let's be real: regulation weights are 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch. To be 2 pounds below the 12.5 PSI threshold, that's around 15-16% of the total weight, and that's being generous enough to say that they would have otherwise been inflated to exactly 12.5 PSI.

 

If the elements alone are causing balls to lose 15-16% of their total weight (again, at the very minimum), then you'd have to think that the NFL is going to find a new supplier who can develop a ball that stays inflated. You don't hear about this being an issue in Lambeau, Buffalo, New York, Minnesota, etc., so why is it suddenly such a big deal? There's no way that someone makes a straight faced argument that the NFL can't find a supplier to manufacture a ball that can stay inflated.

 

I'd say its more likely the Patriots did some manipulation within the rules. If you inflate the balls with 200 degree air to the minimum pressure, they would pass the pre game inspection, then quickly lose pressure.

 

The NFL has never investigated this issue before and does not have a baseline. What they need to do is measure a large sample of balls before and after the game(s) to determine if this is a common occurrence, which I believe it is.

[mcpapa]

First of all, weight is irrelevant , since the ball itself can absorb moisture and gain or lose weight depending upon moisture accumulation. Second, the relevant measurement is inflated air pressure. Balls can start the game at a higher pressure and then lose pressure simply by reducing the temperature by exposure to ambient conditions. I guess nobody here remembers the ideal gas law??? Fourth, have you noticed any of those Gronk spikes? Think you could lose a little air pressure there? I think so.

 

The NFL will find that the balls lose pressure by exposure to ambient conditions and through use. This will all boil over and all the Patriot haters will be red faced.

 

My wife remembers the less-than-ideal gas law for sure.

[ACE]

I haven't thrown a football in 30 years, so I can't recall how much of a pressure change there has to be to make a noticeable difference. Brady throws them by the truckload and he is one of the best ever. Making the assumption Brady had nothing to do with the deflation(innocent until proven guilty), is it a good assumption that there is no way Brady would not have noticed the deflating of the football during the course of the first half? If so, does he have an obligation to bring it to the attention of the officials/coach, etc.?

[PurplePride92]

Why? If that was the case you would think at least one or two of the colts footballs would have deflated enough to go under the legal limit. However what has been said is all the colts ones were fine. The Pats have proven they will push it to the absolute limit and sometimes passed the limit as obvious with spygate for them to gain any advantage possible. For all 12 balls to be lower than what is allowed, when some were in a bag to help keep warm then that theory is hard to believe.

 

As I said before I doubt the Pats decided that this was the game they were going to try this. Its probably has been common practice for them during cold weather or bad weather conditions. They push things to the limits and beyond. They just got caught this time. Which right now the risk is less than the reward. So they had no fear in trying it.

 

So if the Pats inflate their balls to the lowest legal pressure and the Colts inflate theirs to the highest they'd be at the same pressure after deflation?

 

What if the Colts use a different brand than the Pats and their brand holds air pressure better?

 

What if the Pats are using Wal-Mart footballs and the Colts are buying top of the line footballs?

 

What if the Colts have a better brand of ball and store their balls in a weatherproof ball bag and the Pats store theirs in cheap garbage bags?

 

I'd say that scientifically there are many different ways to explain why some balls lost pressure and others didn't.

[UKMustangFan]

So if the Pats inflate their balls to the lowest legal pressure and the Colts inflate theirs to the highest they'd be at the same pressure after deflation?

 

What if the Colts use a different brand than the Pats and their brand holds air pressure better?

 

What if the Pats are using Wal-Mart footballs and the Colts are buying top of the line footballs?

 

What if the Colts have a better brand of ball and store their balls in a weatherproof ball bag and the Pats store theirs in cheap garbage bags?

 

I'd say that scientifically there are many different ways to explain why some balls lost pressure and others didn't.

 

The outright denials by Bill and Brady yesterday make me really wonder if this somehow naturally happened. If you're guilty, don't you think guys as smart as they are would have "no comment" or "it's an ongoing investigation, we can't comment on it at this time"?

 

I don't know, I'm interested in hearing what the final results of the investigation reveal.

[bugatti]

The outright denials by Bill and Brady yesterday make me really wonder if this somehow naturally happened. If you're guilty, don't you think guys as smart as they are would have "no comment" or "it's an ongoing investigation, we can't comment on it at this time"?

 

I don't know, I'm interested in hearing what the final results of the investigation reveal.

I thought Bill came off well. Brady looked uncomfortable answering questions, making odd gestures and keeping his hands in his pockets. I am not saying Brady orchestrated something going in to this game, but I get the sense it is a general understanding he has with whomever to put the footballs at a PSI below standards.