Kobe vs. Jordan

[AverageJoesGym]

I have seen Kobe and MJ do alot of the same things throughout both of their careers. The only glaring difference, IMO, is the MJ has more rings. I have seen both shoot over and around double and triple teams, I have seen both win dunk contests, I have seen both get triple doubles, I have seen both lead their teams to titles, I have seen both never win a title until Phil Jackson came along or came back, I have seen both go on hot streaks and hit unbelievable jumpers with the shot clock winding down, I have seen both dunk on HOF big men multiple times, I have seen both be the best player in the NBA, in the world for that matter, and still get screwed out of the MVP. MJ did all of this before Kobe and I think that plays a large part in people's judgment. Kobe's game resembles MJ's more than anyone else's. Doesn't mean the student can't be better than the teacher. I just wonder if Kobe had a little more on the court and off the court charisma how he would be viewed. The entire planet loved and still loves Mike. Kobe isn't loved outside of LA. He got booed in his hometown and that was before Eagle, Colorado. Fact of the matter is this, MJ may be better than Kobe. We'll never know and this is all opinion. More athletic? Why, because he was an awful minor league player? You can't prove he was a better athlete than Kobe. Eye test? They are separated by less than 10 pounds. Better defender? Who did he have to guard? Rex Chapman? Dan Majerle? Reggie Miller? John Starks? Who was guarding him? Seriously? Who was guarding MJ? A bunch of guys smaller than him, that's who. Again, MJ may be better than Kobe but I am taking Kobe. Every day all day and if Kobe gets beat, it won't be by much. Even in MJ's prime he never had to guard a dude like Kobe Bryant so none of us, including myself, know for sure and can say they certainly know that MJ would have his way with Kobe. I don't care how much better of a defender he is. He never guarded ANYBODY like Kobe Bryant and I'd happily take my chances with Kobe against MJ. That's all I am trying to say.

 

I don't think Jordan was necessarily more athletic than Kobe. I'm almost sure he wasn't a better shooter. I don't think he was necessarily a better defender. However, it just seemed like he always came through. Again, I go back to the 6 titles. Once his team reached a championship level his team won the title EVERY single season that he played. (not counting the 1995 playoffs where he was just getting back in the game) The fact that he was named MVP in all 6 Finals shows that he came up biggest on the biggest stage. In Kobe's 6 previous Finals he has been named MVP only once. The biggest indictment of Kobe for me is Game 7 of the 2006 playoff series against the Suns. When the Lakers needed him most Kobe refused to shoot, instead deferring to his less talented teammates. Also, in 2004 he allowed his team to lose to an inferior Pistons team 4-1 in The Finals. In the last 3 games of The Finals, all Lakers losses, he hit 19/59 shots for 32% shooting. Jordan came through all 6 times he reached The Finals, 6 wins, 6 MVPs. Again, 6 tries, 6 championships, 6 MVPs.

 

As for who would win a game of 1 on 1 or by how much.....who cares? The NBA isn't played 1 on 1. Give me two completely even teams, put Jordan on one and Kobe on the other and I'd take Jordan's team. Why? Because every single time he got there he came through--Every. Single. Time.

[PurplePride92]

I don't think it can even be argued about who was the better athlete. Young Jordan shot jumpers in a way that no one else could, in fact it's how he got his nickname "air" I believe. He just hung in the air for seconds. I think LeBron James is the best athlete I've seen that didn't participate in track and field (I'm young though), and he could even do some of the things Jordan did because of his athleticism.

 

As for Jordan never defending anyone like Kobe, who has Kobe ever guard that remotely comes close to Jordan? Dwade? I don't see it. He doesn't really guard LeBron, but LBJ has no where near the savvy Jordan and assortment of moves had. Let's not even start with VC or TMac.

 

First, LeBron is most likely a better athlete than both of them. IMO.

 

 

Second, it was scientifcally proven that his hangtime is a myth an illusion. No person can hang longer than a second in the air. While it definitely looked like he was in the air for seconds earning the rightful nickname of Air Jordan, he never defied gravity anymore than Jordan Farmar.lol. While MJ may be the better athlete there is no way to prove it. Another thing you and I will agree to disagree about.

 

Thirdly, while Kobe has been honored for his defensive exploits I haven't used his defensive play in my argument. The point I am going for is that MJ never even had to guard guys like Dwade, TMac or Vince Carter. While we never know we still give MJ the benefit of the doubt that he would still be the lockdown defender against those guys that Kobe has had to guard. MJ never really had to guard a guy like Ginobli has he? Shooting guards that MJ had to guard aren't built like the shooting guards that Kobe has had to guard.

[PurplePride92]

It's the arrogance that after numerous posts by numerous members, the poll is completely lopsided, the statistics show the separation...its simply. I say arrogance, cause I don't want to say something else lol. At what point do you give up and concede that no one else feels the same and that you're probably wrong.

 

When people quit responding I'll quit talking and asking.lol. I am holding out hope that someone can convince me I should take MJ instead of Kobe. Haven't seen that convincing post yet I guess.

[MJAlltheWay24]

When people quit responding I'll quit talking and asking.lol. I am holding out hope that someone can convince me I should take MJ instead of Kobe. Haven't seen that convincing post yet I guess.

 

Haha...the only way you change your mind would be if the second coming of Jesus came to your door and told you MJ was better and even then you would doubt him lol.

[PurplePride92]

I don't think Jordan was necessarily more athletic than Kobe. I'm almost sure he wasn't a better shooter. I don't think he was necessarily a better defender. However, it just seemed like he always came through. Again, I go back to the 6 titles. Once his team reached a championship level his team won the title EVERY single season that he played. (not counting the 1995 playoffs where he was just getting back in the game) The fact that he was named MVP in all 6 Finals shows that he came up biggest on the biggest stage. In Kobe's 6 previous Finals he has been named MVP only once. The biggest indictment of Kobe for me is Game 7 of the 2006 playoff series against the Suns. When the Lakers needed him most Kobe refused to shoot, instead deferring to his less talented teammates. Also, in 2004 he allowed his team to lose to an inferior Pistons team 4-1 in The Finals. In the last 3 games of The Finals, all Lakers losses, he hit 19/59 shots for 32% shooting. Jordan came through all 6 times he reached The Finals, 6 wins, 6 MVPs. Again, 6 tries, 6 championships, 6 MVPs.

 

As for who would win a game of 1 on 1 or by how much.....who cares? The NBA isn't played 1 on 1. Give me two completely even teams, put Jordan on one and Kobe on the other and I'd take Jordan's team. Why? Because every single time he got there he came through--Every. Single. Time.

 

This is close......I'd still take my chances with Kobe's team. Isiah Thomas would be the point guard on Kobe's team so I like my guards.:lol:

[PurplePride92]

Haha...the only way you change your mind would be if the second coming of Jesus came to your door and told you MJ was better and even then you would doubt him lol.

 

You're probably right. I'd at least say...... really? Okay, fine then.

[CatsCatsCats]

First, LeBron is most likely a better athlete than both of them. IMO.

 

 

Second, it was scientifcally proven that his hangtime is a myth an illusion. No person can hang longer than a second in the air. While it definitely looked like he was in the air for seconds earning the rightful nickname of Air Jordan, he never defied gravity anymore than Jordan Farmar.lol. While MJ may be the better athlete there is no way to prove it. Another thing you and I will agree to disagree about.

 

Thirdly, while Kobe has been honored for his defensive exploits I haven't used his defensive play in my argument. The point I am going for is that MJ never even had to guard guys like Dwade, TMac or Vince Carter. While we never know we still give MJ the benefit of the doubt that he would still be the lockdown defender against those guys that Kobe has had to guard. MJ never really had to guard a guy like Ginobli has he? Shooting guards that MJ had to guard aren't built like the shooting guards that Kobe has had to guard.

 

Reggie Miller and Drexler don't compare to TMac and VC?

[PurplePride92]

Reggie Miller and Drexler don't compare to TMac and VC?

 

Reggie Miller? Yeah. Chasing him all over the floor is a tall task for anyone but he isn't physically equipped to guard MJ, TMac or VC.

 

I guess Drexler and VC could be seen as similar but a healthy TMac is better than Drexler. I never was big on Drexler. Don't know why. I think it was because of the way his body looked when shooting his jumper.

[AverageJoesGym]

This is close......I'd still take my chances with Kobe's team. Isiah Thomas would be the point guard on Kobe's team so I like my guards.:lol:

 

I said even, it would be Jordan, Kobe and 8 drones. However, if you're picking point guards I'll take Magic.....:lol:

[Pancake]

There's only two places that I'd give Kobe the edge. Perimter shooting, he has more range. And, he has a bigger arsenal of offensive moves, IMO. I view both of those as minimal, because it's not like Kobe is a 3-point threat a la Ray Allen. And, the offensive arsenal is a non-issue because both guys can get a shot when they want it. Jordan was able to post up 15 feet from the basket and shoot fadeaway jumpers at will. If nobody can stop the moves you have, I don't think it matters if the other guy has a couple more in his bag of tricks.

 

I think Jordan is a vastly superior defender both on the ball and as a roamer. I don't recall a lot of discussions about Jordan getting an easy defensive assignment so he can save himself for offense. But, I might be mis-remembering like Andy Pettite.

 

And, I think Jordan is more clutch.

 

He's not light years ahead of Kobe. But, he is/was better. Clearly better to me.

 

I agree with 5 wide, that I also believe that MJ was clearly better...

[History]

Kobe lost many folks with his "colorado" deal years ago. When I watch him I am amazed much like I was with Jordan. Kobe though has lost a huge battle in this discussion and that is the PR battle. People like MJ's style and flair and seem to give him a pass on the gambling, etc. They don't give Kobe the same pass for whatever reason. You couldn't go wrong with either on your team. I would take MJ, but jeez I guess I could live with having Bryant.

[UKMustangFan]

Wrong again. You stated "could he get there, maybe, but as of now it's not close".

 

If it isn't the rings that will get him there, then what exactly will get him there?

 

Once again, you're seeing things that aren't there to try and make your arguement have even the smallest leg to stand on.

 

I'm not so sure Kobe is on the downward side of his career yet, as most do, therefore the "could get there" reference.

 

You keep asking for a convincing arguement that Jordan was better than Kobe, yet you've came no where close to providing a logical or convincing arguement as to why Kobe should even be considered on the same level.

[SSC]

Kobe lost many folks with his "colorado" deal years ago. When I watch him I am amazed much like I was with Jordan. Kobe though has lost a huge battle in this discussion and that is the PR battle. People like MJ's style and flair and seem to give him a pass on the gambling, etc. They don't give Kobe the same pass for whatever reason. You couldn't go wrong with either on your team. I would take MJ, but jeez I guess I could live with having Bryant.

 

Jordan was never indicted for rape. That is a huge difference.

 

PP. People are giving Kobe a lot of compliments and you're taking them as insults. The biggest argument and one that you are shying away from is 6 Finals appearances, 6 titles, and 6 Finals MVP's. If you are choosing sides in a hypothetical game for your life savings I hope I'm picking second behind you. MJ was the ultimate closer in the playoffs. Kobe is one of the best 8 or so players to ever play the game. That alone should tell you people think he's close to Jordan. Just not as close as you or some other Kobe supporters want him to be IMO.

[Blue Magic]

^^^ Kobe is not just top 8. He's top 5 at the absolute worst. I'll go ahead and say top 3 with MJ and Magic.

[UKMustangFan]

^^^ Kobe is not just top 8. He's top 5 at the absolute worst. I'll go ahead and say top 3 with MJ and Magic.

 

My top 5:

 

1) Jordan

 

 

 

 

2) Oscar Robertson

3) Kobe Bryant

4) Larry Bird

5) Wilt Chamberlin