Kobe vs. Jordan

[malachicrunch]

My top 5:

 

1) Jordan

 

 

 

 

2) Oscar Robertson

3) Kobe Bryant

4) Larry Bird

5) Wilt Chamberlin

I got Magic before Wilt. Probably even throw Kareem ahead of him too.

[5wide]

I would agree with this assesment minus the defensive argument. Kobe has been on the All NBA defesnive team just as many times as MJ.

 

He's never won the Defensive Player of the Year, like MJ.

 

But, I'm not worried about the # of All-Defensive teams they've been elected to. And, I'm not knocking Kobe's defense. He's a great defender, especially when he wants to be. I just think Jordan was a better defender. I see it as a clear advantage for MJ.

 

When I say Jordan is clearly better to me, I don't mean there's a huge gap between them. I just think he's obviously the better player. The gap isn't enormous, but we've seen Kobe's best, IMO. I don't see him ever being regarded as the better player.

 

The fact that Jordan was 6 for 6 in finals with 6 MVP's, and the best big man he played with was Bill Cartwright...come on. How many teams have won a title without a dominant big man in the last 20 years or so? To me, that's perhaps the most impressive thing about Jordan's Bulls teams.

 

I also agree with bugatti. I think Kobe presses sometimes on the finals stage. Not early in his career, but in the three without Shaq, I think he's so determined to prove his greatness that he hurts himself at times. He didn't play nearly as well as he could in last year's finals. Other than Game 3, and a few careless plays with the ball in Game 4, he's been better this time around. I also agree that Jordan has a little more of the "it" factor.

 

Kobe has a tremendous opportunity to add to his legacy with a big Game 7, especially against Boston.

 

One thing is for certain. It's been fun to watch these guys for the last 25 years.

[jvdfc]

I got Magic before Wilt. Probably even throw Kareem ahead of him too.

 

Are you considering or only remembering the Laker years for Wilt?

[SSC]

^^^ Kobe is not just top 8. He's top 5 at the absolute worst. I'll go ahead and say top 3 with MJ and Magic.

 

The top 5 is included in the top 8 right? Either way it's all opinions. Top 5 and top 8 are still great. Kobe supporters make it seem that saying a guy is an all timer is an insult to have him behind Jordan. Top 5 or top 3 or top 8 no matter where you have him is not an insult.

[malachicrunch]

Are you considering or only remembering the Laker years for Wilt?

Nope. Undoubtedly the "Dipper" was an all time player. I just have Kareem as being better.

[Shutitdown]

Just wondered on to this thread. Kobe better than Jordan? That is a funny one there.

[MountainThunder]

Kobe averaged less turnovers per game than MJ in the regular season and playoffs. I'd give him the ball handler and passing nod.

 

Why is no one addressing the fact that MJ never beat the giants of the game when they were in their prime? He also lost that game when he scored 63 points. Bird and Isaiah had no problems beating MJ in the 80's when he was putting up 37,8 and 8. In the 90's MJ dominated against weaker competition than Kobe.

 

Kobe wasn't even the best player on his team for his first 3 titles. That was Shaq. Jordan WAS da man for all his title runs. Kobe is arguably the best player in the game today. I know the argument can be made for Lebron and I understand that, ... but either way, like him or not, Kobe is da man right now.

 

These arguments always crack me up. If you pick Kobe, you are a Jordan hater, ... if you pick Jordan, you are Kobe hater. Personally, as people, I don't like either one of them based on what little information I really know of them. I probably like Kobe more as a person as his indiscretions became public and he dealt with them while Jordan's apparently were brushed under the rug and hidden at the time. But as a players, they both amaze(d) me. However, the first player I would pick for my all time team would be Jordan. He was one of the most fierce competitors in any sport I have ever seen. If I had to pick a team from today's current stars, while I don't think you would go wrong either way (Kobe or Lebron), ... given these playoffs and the fact that Kobe has a chance to pick up his 5th ring this year, .... I would give the edge to Kobe over Lebron. But right now, I can't put Kobe over Jordan.

[MJAlltheWay24]

I bet Jordan would beat that guy in Pop-A-Shot on Jimmy Kimmel's show lol.

[jvdfc]

I bet Jordan would beat that guy in Pop-A-Shot on Jimmy Kimmel's show lol.

 

I'm not so sure about that one. ^ :lol: He was amazing.

And I voted for MJ.

[PurplePride92]

Once again, you're seeing things that aren't there to try and make your arguement have even the smallest leg to stand on.

 

I'm not so sure Kobe is on the downward side of his career yet, as most do, therefore the "could get there" reference.

 

You keep asking for a convincing arguement that Jordan was better than Kobe, yet you've came no where close to providing a logical or convincing arguement as to why Kobe should even be considered on the same level.

 

You are right. When I first responded to your initial post I assumed you were saying he "could get there" by winning rings. You cleared that part up. I was just wondering what he could do to "get there" because I believe Kobe's best days are behind him. If he isn't there yet I don't know what more he is capable of doing to get there. I was looking in the wrong places for clarification of that sentence. That's all.

[PurplePride92]

Jordan was never indicted for rape. That is a huge difference.

 

PP. People are giving Kobe a lot of compliments and you're taking them as insults. The biggest argument and one that you are shying away from is 6 Finals appearances, 6 titles, and 6 Finals MVP's. If you are choosing sides in a hypothetical game for your life savings I hope I'm picking second behind you. MJ was the ultimate closer in the playoffs. Kobe is one of the best 8 or so players to ever play the game. That alone should tell you people think he's close to Jordan. Just not as close as you or some other Kobe supporters want him to be IMO.

 

I just don't think MJ was "clearly" better than Kobe. Better, sure he was better, but "clearly" better.....I just don't see it.

[SSC]

I just don't think MJ was "clearly" better than Kobe. Better, sure he was better, but "clearly" better.....I just don't see it.

 

Just b/c it's clear to people that he's better doesn't mean they are saying it's a landslide. The Braves are clearly in first place in the NL East standings. They are only 1/2 game up though.

[5wide]

You are right. When I first responded to your initial post I assumed you were saying he "could get there" by winning rings. You cleared that part up. I was just wondering what he could do to "get there" because I believe Kobe's best days are behind him. If he isn't there yet I don't know what more he is capable of doing to get there. I was looking in the wrong places for clarification of that sentence. That's all.

 

I agree with you. If Kobe isn't there now, he never will be. I don't understand the thought that he could still "catch" Jordan. He can catch him in titles, perhaps overtake him, but the guy has 4 rings (maybe 5 after Thursday). When you've won that many, the championship argument is over, IMO. If you don't think Kobe with 4 or 5 rings is better than Jordan, then Kobe with 6 or 7 isn't either.

 

And, I agree. We've seen his best. He's not going to drastically improve at this point. If there's any big change, it will likely be for worse considering his age and the mileage on his legs.

[5wide]

Just b/c it's clear to people that he's better doesn't mean they are saying it's a landslide. The Braves are clearly in first place in the NL East standings. They are only 1/2 game up though.

 

I agree. I don't think it's a landslide. But, to me it's not even about Kobe. Michael Jordan, to me, is clearly the greatest basketball player I've ever seen...better than Bird, Magic, Kobe, etc. Doesn't mean I believe those guys aren't worthy to grace his presence, simply that I think he's better and I don't have any internal debate about the question. Ask me who the best ever is and I'll say MJ without immediately with no second thoughts.

 

If someone else believes otherwise, and most do not, then so be it. Jordan isn't the only great to ever play...Magic, Bird and company speak for themselves.

 

BTW, has there ever been a more impressive performance in league history than Magic Johnson, as a rookie, playing point guard, forward and center (for the injured Kareem) in Game 6 of the finals, tallying 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists and 3 steals in leading his team to a championship clinching win?

[PurplePride92]

Just b/c it's clear to people that he's better doesn't mean they are saying it's a landslide. The Braves are clearly in first place in the NL East standings. They are only 1/2 game up though.

 

While I agree with your perspective, the tone of the posts seem to say otherwise. I don't think most people are saying Kobe is only separated in greatness by a little. If they are, my apologies for misinterpreting their posts.