Kobe vs. Jordan

[SSC]

Jordan in the series clinching win in 96 had 22 points and shot 26% from the field. Gosh he is terrible. Glad his TEAM won that game for him.

 

Jordan also never lost in the Finals and his teams were never even forced to go 7 games. I admire Kobe and he is an all time great, but there is no denying he was horrible in the biggest game of his career.

[bugatti]

Jordan also never lost in the Finals and his teams were never even forced to go 7 games. I admire Kobe and he is an all time great, but there is no denying he was horrible in the biggest game of his career.

I would argue game 6 was the biggest game of his career. Sure last night was HUGE, but had he laid an egg in game 6, his legacy would have taken a much steeper fall than it would have last night.

[5wide]

I would argue game 6 was the biggest game of his career. Sure last night was HUGE, but had he laid an egg in game 6, his legacy would have taken a much steeper fall than it would have last night.

 

I disagree. The magnitude and attention of a Game 7 would have made it more memorable. His legacy would have taken a hit had they lost either of the last two in Boston. But, a 6-24 performance would have been a black mark on his resume had they lost that game.

[5wide]

Jordan also never lost in the Finals and his teams were never even forced to go 7 games. I admire Kobe and he is an all time great, but there is no denying he was horrible in the biggest game of his career.

 

I'm not trying to sugarcoat Kobe's performance. I was really disappointed in how he played in that big of a game.

 

What I'm trying to say is that I was impressed that he continued to compete in all phases the way he did. I've seen Kobe his offense really affect the rest of his game before, but he battled through that in Game 7. He defended at a high level, grabbed 15 rebounds and made a lot of big FT's down the stretch. It doesn't erase the poor offensive performance, but he deserves a little credit for it. But, it certainly doesn't make that an all-time Finals performance by any means.

 

He could have easily allowed his off night to carry over to other facets of the game and that would have likely cost LA a championship.

 

But, like it or not, 6 of 24 in the biggest game of your life is a big minus if you're competing with MJ.

 

I don't think Kobe has played his best basketball in any of the last three finals he's competed in.

[TAC]

To quote Chris Mullin a Dream Team teammate of Jordan. "There has never been a better player nor will there ever be one in the game of basketball"

[5wide]

To quote Chris Mullin a Dream Team teammate of Jordan. "There has never been a better player nor will there ever be one in the game of basketball"

 

I wouldn't say never.

 

I think he's the best ever, and I don't expect to ever see a better player. But, you never know...it could happen.

[MountainThunder]

For those of us that got to witness both play, and I am no sure basketball expert, I say that my eyes showed me that MJ was better. Was it intangibles? I'm not sure, but I have always felt MJ is by himself as the NBA's greatest. He's Babe Ruth to a Mantle per se.

 

I was able to see Jordan play in person one time. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing Kobe play live. But I agree that Jordan just had that 'X' factor. I felt I was watching the best basketball player I had ever seen when I saw Jordan play.

[PurplePride92]

This is funny. He went 6-24. You can spin that however you want, but he was terrible in the biggest game of his career. Terrible. MJ didn't lay eggs in must win games. It just didn't happen. Kobe didn't do what it took to win Gasol did. Kobe supporters are funny.

 

I agree with your sentiment(except for the Kobe supporters are funny part) but lost in all of this is how awful Gasol played also. How many free throws did Pau miss(7-13)? How many shots did Pau miss as well(6-16)? His shooting numbers weren't through the roof so don't act like Pau carried them in game 7. Ron Artest carried them defensively and offensively in game 7.

 

To Kobe's credit, he crashed the boards even though his shot wasn't falling. It seemed like he got every rebound at the end of the 4th quarter. He admitted that he was too geeked up and that he choked in game 7. I can accept that he owned up to that. Of course, it's much easier to own up to it when you bring home the hardware.

[PurplePride92]

Had the Lakers lost, people would still be skewering over Kobe and how bad he choked and how Jordan would never had done this in a game 7. I am glad the Lakers won so game 7 wouldn't have been the defining moment for Kobe's careeer because it would have been. In hindsight I think I was so upset because he didn't perform the way a superstar of his magnitude is supposed to perform. I am over it now, but like I said.....had the Lakers lost.........

 

I think I casually admitted defeat in this debate during the game.

[MJAlltheWay24]

I think I casually admitted defeat in this debate during the game.

 

You have gained my respect sir lol...great discussion.

[5wide]

It is an interesting discussion. I have no second thoughts about placing Jordan at the top, but I think Kobe is the closest thing we've seen to MJ, and he may be the closest thing we'll ever see to him. In my mind, that in itself is an amazing accomplishment. It's not just the numbers, Kobe is a mirror image of Jordan in many ways, none moreso than the vintage jumpshot both have.

 

Kobe aspired to be like Mike and might have come as close as anyone ever will. That's nothing to be disappointed about.

[PurplePride92]

It is an interesting discussion. I have no second thoughts about placing Jordan at the top, but I think Kobe is the closest thing we've seen to MJ, and he may be the closest thing we'll ever see to him. In my mind, that in itself is an amazing accomplishment. It's not just the numbers, Kobe is a mirror image of Jordan in many ways, none moreso than the vintage jumpshot both have.

 

Kobe aspired to be like Mike and might have come as close as anyone ever will. That's nothing to be disappointed about.

 

Not only did Kobe have those aspirations but 99% of all basketball players from the years 1985 to 2003 had those aspirations. Kobe definitely has done it the best and while he isn't MJ, like you said he has come the closest and no one will likely ever come that close. Definitely nothing to be disappointed about.

[PurplePride92]

You have gained my respect sir lol...great discussion.

 

Thank you. You have mine as well. It turned out to be the discussion I hoped for.

 

I just wish Kobe would have given me a little more ammo to work with. I started this discussion before the national media tried to make it a discussion AFTER game 7. Shoot, I conceded victory DURING game 7. Those guys were way late to the party.

[CatsCatsCats]

I think you guys have a pretty pessimistic outlook on the future of basketball and sports in general. 100 maybe in 50 or 25 years from now I expect someone to pass Michael Jordan. Somewhere someone is going to put together size, speed, athleticism, "clutchness", passing, rebounding, ball handling, shooting, defense and everything else in a package that will top Jordan. He'll still be regarded as a legend no doubt, but basketball continues to evolve and players continue to get bigger and more athletic. Who would have ever thought there would be a 6'10" dominant wing player like Durant? Guys like him, LeBron, Rondo, Dwight Howard and John Wall are just the beginning of the new era of athletes in the NBA and I think it's going to be scary how much different basketball is going to get.

 

Nothing against Kobe, but I can't buy that he is as good as someone can realistically get going forward, as some have said he is the closest we'll ever see to Jordan. As far as natural abilities go I think LeBron and Durant have Kobe beat, so I think it's definitely likely that at some point someone will have the natural abilties of those two and mix it with the mental drive of Kobe or Jordan. I do think Kobe is the last that will pattern his game so much like Jordan, so maybe that's what others are saying?

[PurplePride92]

I think you guys have a pretty pessimistic outlook on the future of basketball and sports in general. 100 maybe in 50 or 25 years from now I expect someone to pass Michael Jordan. Somewhere someone is going to put together size, speed, athleticism, "clutchness", passing, rebounding, ball handling, shooting, defense and everything else in a package that will top Jordan. He'll still be regarded as a legend no doubt, but basketball continues to evolve and players continue to get bigger and more athletic. Who would have ever thought there would be a 6'10" dominant wing player like Durant? Guys like him, LeBron, Rondo, Dwight Howard and John Wall are just the beginning of the new era of athletes in the NBA and I think it's going to be scary how much different basketball is going to get.

 

Nothing against Kobe, but I can't buy that he is as good as someone can realistically get going forward, as some have said he is the closest we'll ever see to Jordan. As far as natural abilities go I think LeBron and Durant have Kobe beat, so I think it's definitely likely that at some point someone will have the natural abilties of those two and mix it with the mental drive of Kobe or Jordan. I do think Kobe is the last that will pattern his game so much like Jordan, so maybe that's what others are saying?

 

Yes, that is what we are saying. MJ can't do things physically that LeBron or Durant can do. They are bigger and taller. Kobe patterned 90% of his game(his words) after MJ.

 

Notice I put 1985-2003. Kids nowadays want to be Kobe, LeBron or DWade. Even Carmelo, DRose and Rondo(my son).:isurrender:

 

Dwight Howard? Good athlete, superior defender, one dimensional on offense. Not a fan but to each his own. Kobe dunked on him. :ylsuper:

 

Pessimistic, naw. I WANT someone to pass MJ(please, for the love of God). If Kobe can't do it, LeBron is next in line, IMO.:thumb: