Kobe vs. Jordan

[CatsCatsCats]

Kobe has been first team all defense 8 times and second team 2 times. In full disclosure, I do not take the all defensive team honors as serious as some because they are often a popularity vote, but it is still quite an accomplishment.

 

I think Kobe plays great defense, but I think he is overrated somewhat at it. He's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, but people compare his defense to Jordan's and I don't see it. Jordan was the best perimeter defender (other than possibly Gary Payton) of his era IMO. Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest and others have been better perimeter defenders this decade IMO.

[HammerTime]

When is the last time I hated on Kobe? Last year? I've actually defended him in the other NBA thread but oh well.

:idunno:

 

As for being outraged I don't care one way or another which player you think is better. But in a discussion I just wish one Kobe supporter brought one valid reason for Kobe being as good or better than Jordan. You say people are lying to themselves that it's not close, but no one has brought a valid argument as to why.

 

I already said Jordan is better what more do you want?

[HammerTime]

There's only two places that I'd give Kobe the edge. Perimter shooting, he has more range. And, he has a bigger arsenal of offensive moves, IMO. I view both of those as minimal, because it's not like Kobe is a 3-point threat a la Ray Allen. And, the offensive arsenal is a non-issue because both guys can get a shot when they want it. Jordan was able to post up 15 feet from the basket and shoot fadeaway jumpers at will. If nobody can stop the moves you have, I don't think it matters if the other guy has a couple more in his bag of tricks.

 

I think Jordan is a vastly superior defender both on the ball and as a roamer. I don't recall a lot of discussions about Jordan getting an easy defensive assignment so he can save himself for offense. But, I might be mis-remembering like Andy Pettite.

 

And, I think Jordan is more clutch.

 

He's not light years ahead of Kobe. But, he is/was better. Clearly better to me.

I would agree with this assesment minus the defensive argument. Kobe has been on the All NBA defesnive team just as many times as MJ.

[dolamite]

I also love how a couple of pictures of Kobe and Jordan holding similar poses means that Kobe wants to be Jordan. I have held those similar poses a few hundred times in my life, I guess I am just trying to live up to the greatness of Jordan.

 

Jordan and Kobe are both egomaniacs. Neither wants to be compared to the other. In my opinion, that is what makes Kobe a special player and a trait a guy like LeBron (talk about wanting to be Jordan) has yet to develop.

 

Its not even about the pose really, I just thought it was a good selection of pictures to compare. Uh did you not notice the intricate part of the picture? The one wristband around the left elbow? That was the whole purpose of that picture, not the pose, so I love how you try to make someone look foolish when you did not even get the point of the picture. Who else in the league wears the "exact" same type of wristband Jordan did, in the "same" exact place Jordan did? I mean most players nowadays either wear a sleeve or multiple wristbands, and if they do rock a band on that section of their arm it is the little 1/2 inch ones. Kobe is the only person I know who rocks the old school Jordan band look.

 

The second picture just goes to show the extent of Kobe's trying to be like Jordan-ness. I mean tucked in warm-ups? Tucked in warm-ups. Think about that, who else does that, I remember when Jordan got flack for it, people calling him an old man and stuff, but suddenly Kobe makes it his style as well? Hmmmmm

 

 

 

 

 

And you talk about Lebron trying to be like Jordan? Please. He may look up to Jordan he may model his game after him but who in the NBA right now doesn't. He doesn't take it as far as to doing every single thing he does to be like Jordan, uh kind of like Kobe. I don't remember Jordan rockin the headband, mini fro, arm sleeve, or countless other trademarks Lebron has brought to the table not resembling Jordan. Kobe on the otherhand not so much.

[UKMustangFan]

I'd take Magic before MJ as well. MJ would be my 3rd pick after the 2 greatest Lakers.

 

Statements like this are why no one can have this debate with you. Your obvious bias towards everything Kobe and LA clouds your judgement. Kobe is a great player, one of the best 5-6 of all-time probably, but he's not in MJ's league. Could he get there, maybe, but as of now it's not close.

[bugatti]

Its not even about the pose really, I just thought it was a good selection of pictures to compare. Uh did you not notice the intricate part of the picture? The one wristband around the left elbow? That was the whole purpose of that picture, not the pose, so I love how you try to make someone look foolish when you did not even get the point of the picture. Who else in the league wears the "exact" same type of wristband Jordan did, in the "same" exact place Jordan did? I mean most players nowadays either wear a sleeve or multiple wristbands, and if they do rock a band on that section of their arm it is the little 1/2 inch ones. Kobe is the only person I know who rocks the old school Jordan band look.

 

The second picture just goes to show the extent of Kobe's trying to be like Jordan-ness. I mean tucked in warm-ups? Tucked in warm-ups. Think about that, who else does that, I remember when Jordan got flack for it, people calling him an old man and stuff, but suddenly Kobe makes it his style as well? Hmmmmm

 

 

 

 

 

And you talk about Lebron trying to be like Jordan? Please. He may look up to Jordan he may model his game after him but who in the NBA right now doesn't. He doesn't take it as far as to doing every single thing he does to be like Jordan, uh kind of like Kobe. I don't remember Jordan rockin the headband, mini fro, arm sleeve, or countless other trademarks Lebron has brought to the table not resembling Jordan. Kobe on the otherhand not so much.

My apologies, dolamite. I was not looking for the Where's Waldo wristband by the elbow. I do not possess the keen sense of deciphering hidden messages like most (apparently) in mirrored imaged stoic poses. I guess it was pretty noticeable. Again, I regret the mistake and was not intending to make anyone look foolish as you took it. Big picture, I still stand by my point that Kobe does not want to be like Mike. Pun intended. I do not care if they dress the same or eat the same food every day of the week. Big picture, LeBron sees himself more as a global iconic figure, like my man, Jordan. That is not meant as a knock on him.

[dolamite]

My apologies, dolamite. I was not looking for the Where's Waldo wristband by the elbow. I do not possess the keen sense of deciphering hidden messages like most (apparently) in mirrored imaged stoic poses. I guess it was pretty noticeable. Again, I regret the mistake and was not intending to make anyone look foolish as you took it. Big picture, I still stand by my point that Kobe does not want to be like Mike. Pun intended. I do not care if they dress the same or eat the same food every day of the week. Big picture, LeBron sees himself more as a global iconic figure, like my man, Jordan. That is not meant as a knock on him.

 

No harm, I just absolutely hate it when people try to make me sound like I don't know what I am talking about or that I am stupid. It is just obvious to me that he does everything the way Jordan did it.

[PurplePride92]

Statements like this are why no one can have this debate with you. Your obvious bias towards everything Kobe and LA clouds your judgement. Kobe is a great player, one of the best 5-6 of all-time probably, but he's not in MJ's league. Could he get there, maybe, but as of now it's not close.

 

 

So again, Kobe has to win 6 to be in the discussion with MJ? Does he have to win 5 this year to be in the discussion with Robert Horry?

 

Wrong.

 

I too have admitted MJ was better. I have admitted MJ has had a better career. My main reason for this thread was to find out how and why MJ is light years ahead of Kobe and all I can get is "because they said so" type answers. Just because I would take Magic and Kobe before Jordan doesn't mean I can't have a discussion about it. In the same vein that Cats says no one is proving why it is close I say no one is proving why it isn't close.

 

So I'd take Magic and Kobe versus MJ and anyone else you want. I'd bet money it'd be a close game. You take MJ and I take Kobe 1 on 1. I bet it's a close game. That is the only point I am trying to make. To quote HT, "it's close and if you don't believe it you are lying to yourself."

[SSC]

So again, Kobe has to win 6 to be in the discussion with MJ? Does he have to win 5 this year to be in the discussion with Robert Horry?

 

Wrong.

 

I too have admitted MJ was better. I have admitted MJ has had a better career. My main reason for this thread was to find out how and why MJ is light years ahead of Kobe and all I can get is "because they said so" type answers. Just because I would take Magic and Kobe before Jordan doesn't mean I can't have a discussion about it. In the same vein that Cats says no one is proving why it is close I say no one is proving why it isn't close.

 

So I'd take Magic and Kobe versus MJ and anyone else you want. I'd bet money it'd be a close game. You take MJ and I take Kobe 1 on 1. I bet it's a close game. That is the only point I am trying to make. To quote HT, "it's close and if you don't believe it you are lying to yourself."

 

So are we just talking one on one? One on one is not the best way to judge talent IMO, but if we're talking one on one MJ in his prime against Kobe in his I'm sure it would be close. I'd take MJ b/c he has more "will" IMO, but Kobe has a lot of that too.

[UKMustangFan]

So again, Kobe has to win 6 to be in the discussion with MJ? Does he have to win 5 this year to be in the discussion with Robert Horry?

 

Wrong.

 

I too have admitted MJ was better. I have admitted MJ has had a better career. My main reason for this thread was to find out how and why MJ is light years ahead of Kobe and all I can get is "because they said so" type answers. Just because I would take Magic and Kobe before Jordan doesn't mean I can't have a discussion about it. In the same vein that Cats says no one is proving why it is close I say no one is proving why it isn't close.

 

So I'd take Magic and Kobe versus MJ and anyone else you want. I'd bet money it'd be a close game. You take MJ and I take Kobe 1 on 1. I bet it's a close game. That is the only point I am trying to make. To quote HT, "it's close and if you don't believe it you are lying to yourself."

 

I keep scanning my post over and over to see where I said he had to win the same amount of rings as Jordan, but can't seem to find it....Can you point that out to me? Oh, what's that, you're trying to put words in my mouth to benefit your arguement, gotcha.

 

You never until now said anything about 1 on 1. Heck if we're playing 1 on 1, I'd take Durant or LeBron over Kobe, and I don't think it'd be close. The sport of basketball is a team game, you're smart enough to realize that. When we're judging a player's greatness, it's in that aspect, not some 1 on 1 fantasy garbage. Jordan is the greatest to ever play the game. He could handle better, he could pass better, he was a better teammate, he was more explosive, he could jump higher, he was a better defender, etc., etc., etc. The one thing I think Kobe is better than Jordan at is shooting. Everything else, I'd give Jordan an edge.

[CatsCatsCats]

I already said Jordan is better what more do you want?

 

Perhaps to quit acting like everyone who doesn't hold Kobe in the same esteem as Jordan is somehow biased against him. You also called me a hater and I asked you to find a recent post where I said I was. I've liked Kobe more and more since last year and have stated so on here. Just because I think he's not in Jordan's league doesn't mean I'm hating on him. I don't think anyone outside of Magic Johnson or Bill Russell should even be mentioned.

 

Kobe is the 2nd best SG in NBA history IMO, I don't see what more you could realistically want.

 

 

So again, Kobe has to win 6 to be in the discussion with MJ? Does he have to win 5 this year to be in the discussion with Robert Horry?

 

Wrong.

 

I too have admitted MJ was better. I have admitted MJ has had a better career. My main reason for this thread was to find out how and why MJ is light years ahead of Kobe and all I can get is "because they said so" type answers. Just because I would take Magic and Kobe before Jordan doesn't mean I can't have a discussion about it. In the same vein that Cats says no one is proving why it is close I say no one is proving why it isn't close.

 

So I'd take Magic and Kobe versus MJ and anyone else you want. I'd bet money it'd be a close game. You take MJ and I take Kobe 1 on 1. I bet it's a close game. That is the only point I am trying to make. To quote HT, "it's close and if you don't believe it you are lying to yourself."

 

Outside of stats and accomplishments what else can we say? Jordan thoroughly dominates him. 5 more PPG, and over 1 more rebound and assist per game along with nearly twice as many steals shows something. 5 MVPs to 1, 6 Finals MVP's to 1 say something. The fact that half of Kobe's game is stolen from MJ says something. As for the eye test, Jordan was more athletic, quicker, and stronger than Kobe. Jordan defended better than Kobe.

 

All of those little things add up, which is why I don't think it's close. You have came back with he shoots better from the outside. That is one thing compared to about 20 or so things Jordan did better.

[UKMustangFan]

Perhaps to quit acting like everyone who doesn't hold Kobe in the same esteem as Jordan is somehow biased against him. You also called me a hater and I asked you to find a recent post where I said I was. I've liked Kobe more and more since last year and have stated so on here. Just because I think he's not in Jordan's league doesn't mean I'm hating on him. I don't think anyone outside of Magic Johnson or Bill Russell should even be mentioned.

 

Kobe is the 2nd best SG in NBA history IMO, I don't see what more you could realistically want.

 

 

 

 

Outside of stats and accomplishments what else can we say? Jordan thoroughly dominates him. 5 more PPG, and over 1 more rebound and assist per game along with nearly twice as many steals shows something. 5 MVPs to 1, 6 Finals MVP's to 1 say something. The fact that half of Kobe's game is stolen from MJ says something. As for the eye test, Jordan was more athletic, quicker, and stronger than Kobe. Jordan defended better than Kobe.

 

All of those little things add up, which is why I don't think it's close. You have came back with he shoots better from the outside. That is one thing compared to about 20 or so things Jordan did better.

 

:thumb:

 

His arguement is basically, "the heck with the stats, I'm a big Kobe homer, and everyone who doesn't think my guy is close to Jordan's level is crazy." :lol:

[RomanEmpire]

:thumb:

 

His arguement is basically, "the heck with the stats, I'm a big Kobe homer, and everyone who doesn't think my guy is close to Jordan's level is crazy." :lol:

 

 

Or he could be using the "in my lifetime" theory..............just sayin......

[MJAlltheWay24]

It certainly makes me laugh a little that this poll is currently 45-2 lol, even more that one of the two (Voice of Reason) has sinced said he wanted to change his vote lol.

[CatsCatsCats]

PP or HT, the way I see it is this:

 

All of the greats probably did something better than Jordan. Magic was a better passer, Bird and Kobe are better shooters, Shaq was more dominant offensively, but it's the collection of all the little things that make Jordan so much better than anyone.