Kobe vs. Jordan

[PurplePride92]

Clyde Drexler?

 

Drexler never has been nor ever will be close to a threat against MJ. He had to ride Olajuwon's coattails to win a title but I'll give you Drexler. That's one.

[PurplePride92]

I know the Kobe fans on here won't like it but his legacy will take a hit if they don't win this series IMO.

 

-He will have lost 3 Finals series in 7 attempts. Jordan won 6 of 6.

-He will have played in 7 Finals and will have only taken the MVP home once.

-His one Finals Title as the lead man will have come in a year when their "Achilles Heel" Boston wasn't at full strength.

 

Of course he will still have time to add another title or two to his resume, but he's not getting any younger. Of course, if the Lakers come back (and there is a good chance they will) this is null and void. Thoughts?

 

Not buying it. Especially after watching Kobe show up and the rest of the team stink it up last night. You must admit that this series is the healthiest he has looked all year. They'll be a legitimate threat to win it again next year. I keep waiting for Shaq to put on twitter he wants to go back to the Lakers.

[PurplePride92]

Jordan is the greatest of all time.

I'm not a huge Kobe fan but he's the closest too him since MJ left. Kobe has a better shot even though MJ could shoot. Jordan is a better finisher even though Kobe can finish. MJ was a better defender. I think people forget this part of his game. He was on the all defensive team a lot. He is one of the greatest marketers of all time in any business. I think the one thing that sets him apart from everybody is his competitiveness. While Kobe is competitive Jordan and Tiger have something you can almost feel that they know they are going to beat you when it's all said and done. Jordan smelled blood and put you away. You knew if the game was close he was going to win it sick or not. His drive to be the best he could be is unmatched.

If none of that works for you he can fly and Kobe can't lol.

 

MJ was a great defender as he lead the league in steals but what shooting guards did he have to guard while he was in the league? It's not like there was a plethora of talent at the shooting guard position.

[PurplePride92]

50 greatest players argument.

 

Both Jordan and Kobe played with 2 (Pippen, Shaq) in their prime, (Parrish, Malone) not in their prime.

 

By my count Jordan played against 15 of the 50 while they were still playing a very high levels.

 

The Bulls also beat 5 of the 50 in the Finals.

 

No comparison.

 

 

Yes there is. Revisit the top 50 list when guys in the league now are added to it. You'll see plenty of players leave that list from MJ's era leave and guys from Kobe's era will be added. In 10 years I'd say they'll both have about 10 players from their eras on there.

[PurplePride92]

Also there is this fact. Jordan played in 6 Finals, he won 6 Finals, he was Finals MVP all 6 times.

 

Very true. No argument there.

[PurplePride92]

Let's face it from 1999 through about 2006 it was the worst era of basketball in modern NBA history. Kobe won 3 of his championships then. I think the Lakers had great teams then but the competition level was not great.

 

That's debatable. I think it was much worse from 1990-1999. Keep in mind how awful the NBA became when MJ was suspended for gambling. The Bulls were beating mediocre teams in the regular season and the playoffs when they were at their height.

[PurplePride92]

Does the 1991 championship not count? The Bulls beat Magic Johnson, who I would consider "a giant of the game". Magic averaged 19.4 points, 12.5 assists and 7.0 rebounds that season compared to his career averages of 19.5 points, 11.2 assists and 7.2 rebounds. They also had James Worthy.

 

They also dethroned the 2-time defending champion Pistons in the playoffs that season that featured Isiah Thomas. The 1992 Championship was won over a Trailblazer team that featured Clyde Drexler. The 1993 championship came against a Phoenix team with Charles Barley. Johnson, Worthy, Thomas, Drexler and Barkley were all named to the NBA's top 50 team. Who did he dodge during his career?

 

He didn't dodge anyone. That's my point.

 

I'll give you 1991. That was his "finally" year. After that the Pistons were old and garbage, Magic got HIV, Drexler was decent and Barkley was a 1 man team. 1 on 3 in the Finals=loss. Kobe knows that equation. He also beat Seattle(2 on 3) and Utah(2 on 3). There really weren't any teams on Chicago's level in the 90's when MJ was on the court.

[Bengals>Steelers]

If they switch teams then the Bulls maybe win 1 title and if Jordan was on the Lakers they might be better than the Bulls were. Especially when Shaq was there

[PurplePride92]

Clyde Drexler

 

Reggie Miller - I know it wasn't the Finals, but I think many would agree that whoever won that battle between the Pacers and Bulls that year was going to win it all.

 

Reggie Miller. Glad you said him. Reggie Miller is not, was not physically equipped to guard MJ. No shooting guards except for Drexler maybe were physically equipped to guard MJ. MJ dominated shooting guards that were not physically equipped or athletic enough to guard him. Kobe sees guys every night that are physically equipped and athletic enough to guard him.

[PurplePride92]

If they switch teams then the Bulls maybe win 1 title and if Jordan was on the Lakers they might be better than the Bulls were. Especially when Shaq was there

 

Results would be the same. You really can't get much better from the level that those 2 teams played at.

[PurplePride92]

It is not close.

 

Statements like this is why I started this thread to begin with. I have said continually that MJ had a better career and if they played 10 times MJ would likely win 6 out of 10 but there are no stats or facts that prove that "it is not even close". The "not even close" mindset is mind boggling to me.

[PurplePride92]

Who is disputing that? You said he didn't beat the Pistons, Celtics or Lakers early in his career. What teammate was suppose to help him with that? Kobe couldn't get out of the first round and even missed the playoffs with garbage support around him. At least Jordan went in and battled.

 

When Kobe lost Shaq it took him 3 years to get back to the Finals. It took MJ 6 years to get to the Finals and he had Pippen for 2 of those years. He never beat the Celtics or Pistons when they were at their best. His highest scoring game came in an overtime loss to the Celtics. When he beat the Pistons they were old and battered and bruised from chasing the Celtics for years and I already conceded them beating the last good Laker team until Kobe and Shaq came along. He never beat great teams. Kobe and Shaq have beaten great Spurs teams and the Lakers domination in the last 3 seasons over what is arguably the toughest the Western Conference has ever been speaks volumes, IMO.

[malachicrunch]

Tough thread. My vote is with MJ. I won't go to stats or records or any other method of comaparson other than what I have seen for myself. Kobe is awesome, no doubt. I just can't say I'd take him over MJ.

[CatsCatsCats]

Not buying it. Especially after watching Kobe show up and the rest of the team stink it up last night. You must admit that this series is the healthiest he has looked all year. They'll be a legitimate threat to win it again next year. I keep waiting for Shaq to put on twitter he wants to go back to the Lakers.

 

Not buying what? The facts I stated would permanently kill the Kobe v. Michael debate. A debate that should have never taken place in the first place.

 

Also, saying it took Jordan 6 years, let's not even think about how long it would have taken Kobe had he been the lead dog since year one with no help. The Bulls went as soon as Pippen emerged as another legit star.

[SSC]

The bolded is one thing I think people are being premature about. Give LeBron someone of Gasol's caliber and let's see what he can do. As far as being a solo act on a team, LeBron has been far more successful than Kobe was during his post-Shaq-pre-Gasol years. Did the Lakers even get out of the first round then? LeBron has been a solo act his entire career and they are the only team in the NBA to have advanced past the first round each of the last 5 years.

 

I know that championships are where legacies are made, but if someone could say that everyone needs help they need to remember that about LeBron.

 

Kobe does not have to score 30 for the Lakers to win. They are actually better when he score efficiently and Gasol and Odom have big numbers. For the Cavs to do anything the last 5 years, LeBron has had to have monster post-season games. It's unrealistic to expect someone to play an entire post-season at an extremely high level. Overall I think NBA fans (myself included) are just too critical. A few were mad that Kobe made bad plays last game...he is human and has been playing against the best defensive team in the NBA. He's not going to have 35, 10 and 10 every night, and neither is LeBron. However, LeBron has to have numbers like that for his team to win a series against a really good team, something many fail to recognize or give credit for.

 

Sorry, I'll get back to the topic.

 

Lebron is unbelievable, but he can't consistently beat you from outside. That's why I'd still take Kobe right now in the playoffs. He can beat you from everywhere. I thought LBJ was far better, but I think Kobe has a slight edge still for the playoffs only. Not taking anything away from LBJ especially since his best teammate is Mo Williams. I'm just complementing Kobe.