Mike Leake

[LOOGY]

In hindsight, Cueto should have been traded last summer. But he didn't and the Reds still got a very good return. The Reds weren't going to be able to sign Cueto with or without Baileys contract anyway.

 

The Reds had to choose which pitcher had the best value to keep, and they chose Bailey, which I still think could end up being the right call. Bailey still has the stuff of an ace but the head of little leaguer. Leake will always be a middle of the rotation guy. The Reds don't have the ability and should pay around 15 mil for a number three starter.

[Hellbird]

The moves were good because there wasn't another choice.

 

I agree that the stupid contract to Bailey helped caused some of it, but so did giving Votto the huge contract they did. I bet people would have gone crazy had they not signed Votto back then.

Votto is one of the best players in MLB and o e of the best in this team. I was never upset with the money he got. Bailey has never been the top

pitcher in this club. There is a huge difference in the 2 contracts. Not even close.

[Hellbird]

Listen folks. Cueto had to be traded because why?

Because the Reds couldn't afford him. That is the only reason.

Why? Because they are not good at managing their money they have the same problem the Bengals

had for decades and that is paying too much for avg players

and then not being able to afford the best on their team. Simple as that.

 

When end an owner can't afford to keep his best players and a GM who spends too much on avg players then you have a formula for failure.

 

Basically the Reds are without 4/5ths of their starting rotation now.

 

I never doubted they would get rid of Leake and Cueto, actually I made

that very prediction before last years season even started. I saw the writing in the wall

and is why I never once thought this team would come close to competing for a world championship.

 

So now they got rid of the two best starting pitchers they had and everyone is excited about what they got in return. Excuse me

if I don't share the idea they will be good the next few years. Go back to the prediction thread before this season started, I was one of the first that predicted a losing record.

 

Be happy about the prospects of you want but in no way will they be as good as what we have up.

 

Can't spend money then don't be upset at low attendance which will lead to even more payroll cuts next year and it will be a never ending cycle until you get an owner that isn't using the team as his way of survival.

[gametime]

To have any chance at sustainable success the Reds can't pay a guy like Cueto upwards of 200 million on a deal that extends into his mid 30s. It is a bad business decision given the market any way you slice it...

[John Anthony]

To have any chance at sustainable success the Reds can't pay a guy like Cueto upwards of 200 million on a deal that extends into his mid 30s. It is a bad business decision given the market any way you slice it...

 

In a few years he's CC Sabathia, Justin Verlander...

[littleluck55]

Votto is one of the best players in MLB and o e of the best in this team. I was never upset with the money he got. Bailey has never been the top

pitcher in this club. There is a huge difference in the 2 contracts. Not even close.

 

So you're ok giving Votto $200m and you want to give Cueto $200m and Leake $100m, how much more do you want to spend on the rest of the 22 players. The team sucked this year with those three on the team, who do you want to get rid of and how much to replace them?

[Clyde]

Listen folks. Cueto had to be traded because why?

Because the Reds couldn't afford him. That is the only reason.

Why? Because they are not good at managing their money they have the same problem the Bengals

had for decades and that is paying too much for avg players

and then not being able to afford the best on their team. Simple as that.

 

When end an owner can't afford to keep his best players and a GM who spends too much on avg players then you have a formula for failure.

 

Basically the Reds are without 4/5ths of their starting rotation now.

 

I never doubted they would get rid of Leake and Cueto, actually I made

that very prediction before last years season even started. I saw the writing in the wall

and is why I never once thought this team would come close to competing for a world championship.

 

So now they got rid of the two best starting pitchers they had and everyone is excited about what they got in return. Excuse me

if I don't share the idea they will be good the next few years. Go back to the prediction thread before this season started, I was one of the first that predicted a losing record.

 

Be happy about the prospects of you want but in no way will they be as good as what we have up.

 

Can't spend money then don't be upset at low attendance which will lead to even more payroll cuts next year and it will be a never ending cycle until you get an owner that isn't using the team as his way of survival.

 

I'm confused. Is your argument that they should have gotten more in this trade?

[NKYknowitall]

In hindsight, Cueto should have been traded last summer. But he didn't and the Reds still got a very good return. The Reds weren't going to be able to sign Cueto with or without Baileys contract anyway.

 

The Reds had to choose which pitcher had the best value to keep, and they chose Bailey, which I still think could end up being the right call. Bailey still has the stuff of an ace but the head of little leaguer. Leake will always be a middle of the rotation guy. The Reds don't have the ability and should pay around 15 mil for a number three starter.

 

Time out. Bailey has the stuff of an ace and Leake will always be a middle of the rotation guy? Please explain, because Leake's career numbers are MUCH better than Bailey. So how does that not make Bailey a middle of the rotation guy?

[BaseballIsLife]

Biggest difference is St Louis doesn't let emotion impact baseball decisions. They move guys before they are making major money on the down side of their careers and extend/pay for guys entering their prime. Keep payroll in the range they want and talent always moving up instead of down...

 

To add on to this, they are also very patient with developing their prospects. Most of the guys that come up for them are in their mid twenties when they are rookies.

[malachicrunch]

It all comes down go how they have spent the money. Yes there would have been some upset people had they not signed Votto. But from what i am hearing pitching is key. But the Reds sign him, Bruce, Phillips. Again reference the Cards. Letting go of Pujols, who was better than any Reds player's, actually helped. Reds trading Dunn was key in the success they had shortly after. But now they let 80 percent of a really good staff walk, keeping Homer. Pretty much sums up why they are struggling.

[Clyde]

Leake took the loss today. 2 ER in 6 1/3.

[Mack The Knife]

Leake took the loss today. 2 ER in 6 1/3.

 

Hamilton touched him up for a long one in the 6th...

[Sandman]

For one typically you aren't going to acquire experienced MLB talent for MLB talent. That's not the way these swaps work, the entire purpose of these trades were for the Royals and Giants to get better and make a run at a World Series. Why on earth would they trade the Reds players off of their ML rosters if this were the case? And if they did trade off their ML rosters it would most likely have to be bum bench guys because they are trying to get better not worse, the Reds wouldn't want to take on the payroll of acquiring ML level prospects anyways. The purpose of these trades from the Reds side is to rob the other team of some of their top prospects, this gives the reds affordable talent that they can control for a while. The Reds got "top prospects" that's the bottom line and all you can hope for is they fulfill their promise. Anyone that knows anything about the Reds farm system knows it is loaded with quality arms, Cueto and Leake were very expendable. Out of the Reds 10+ high level prospects that will be candidates for the rotation the next couple seasons I'd be very surprised if at least 2 of them don't become All-Stars in the Bigs and another 2 at least will be All-Star relievers at some point. Keeping Cueto and Leake wasn't going to do any good, why would we want to return the exact same team next season when they have been horrible for the last two. The consensus among the baseball experts is the Reds recieved a great haul of top flight talent in these trades, are they sometimes wrong sure they but the prospect ranking systems are usually pretty spot on these days.

 

First bolded, who did the Red Sox get when they traded John Lester to the A's last year?

 

Second bolded, on the first part condescend much? I might more know more about the Reds farm system than you think...

 

Second bolded second part, I'm not sure what universe I'd label Cueto and Leake "very expendable."

 

But, hey, we got all these prospects now and 4 of them are going to be all-stars? Okay, 2019 here we come. Looking forward to how much the street cars will be rocking while we all ride down to the Series.

[Sandman]

For those that think the Reds should have gotten proven MLB talent in return.

 

 

You're KC or SF. Reds call offering a pitcher who will be a free agent in two months. The player will go on the open market.

 

Other teams are also talking to you about their MLB pitchers who are also going to be on the market in two months. So you have some options.

 

Why would you give up proven MLB bats who can go to Cincinnati TODAY and start?

 

Who'd the A's trade last year to get Lester?

[Sandman]

We cannot compare Bob's financial situation to Cuban/Jones.

 

Those guys got WEALTHY (not rich - wealthy) before they ever owned a sports team. Losing money is no big deal to them on an annual basis. They have PLENTY of spare money and their franchise is appreciating.

 

You can't compare Bob's situation.

 

Assuming you're referencing my post (though the world may never know).

 

This was my point exactly.