Mike Leake

[Sandman]

Time out. Bailey has the stuff of an ace and Leake will always be a middle of the rotation guy? Please explain, because Leake's career numbers are MUCH better than Bailey. So how does that not make Bailey a middle of the rotation guy?

 

Well see, anyone who knows anything about baseball knows Bailey has better stuff because he was a higher rated "prospect" and I read "insider" reports that said he did. I'd be shocked if he's not a 5 time all star. Plus, I know the game and I know pitching, and I'm telling you he does.

 

Sarcasm firmly intact for the entire above.

 

Gotta be careful in these threads, a lot of these guys not only invented the game, but they also have doctorate's in Moneyball.

[Sandman]

My point was simple. There are owners who are fine with losing money if their team wins big. It's not a business first with these guys.

 

You think Mike Brown spends more money on the Bengals franchise than Jerry Jones does on the Cowboys?

 

You think there are many owners in the NBA who outspend Mark Cuban on their basketball franchise?

 

There's a lot more to this than just a salary cap.

[Sandman]

Those sports have caps, so there is only so much they can spend anyway. Apples and oranges. Most NBA, NFL, and NHL teams spend close to the same amount of money. The Jaguars spend just as much as the Cowboys. The Hornets spend just as much at the Mavs. Only the MLB is the salary differential is huge. The top spenders will spend 100 million dollars or more than the lowest level ones.

Once the new TV deals kick in the Reds will have more money to spend. The only problem is other teams are getting deals as well so prices will go up for players anyway. The only way for the Reds to start out spending is if you love them to New York/LA where they can actually afford to.

 

Also The Bengals have a higher payroll than the Cowbys

 

Reread the first sentence of the post I quoted. Did you mention a salary cap, or mention every single owner has to make money?

[nkufan23]

First bolded, who did the Red Sox get when they traded John Lester to the A's last year?

 

Second bolded, on the first part condescend much? I might more know more about the Reds farm system than you think...

 

Second bolded second part, I'm not sure what universe I'd label Cueto and Leake "very expendable."

 

But, hey, we got all these prospects now and 4 of them are going to be all-stars? Okay, 2019 here we come. Looking forward to how much the street cars will be rocking while we all ride down to the Series.

 

LOL. I knew someone would be quick to point out the Cespedes trade. That's one case, sure it happens I never said that it didn't but it's not common.

 

Why in the world do we need Leake and Cueto on a team that is struggling to stay out of the cellar? Was next years team going to be any different. It's time to go in a new direction. Cueto is one of the best pitchers in Reds history and he will be tough to replace but if any team can replace him it's the Reds. The Reds have built maybe the most talented collection of arms in any farm system at one time ever. If you are so well versed on the Reds farm system you already know that. They are prospects and a lot can go wrong with them but you can't deny the talent level and depth of pitching is ridiculous right now. I'm not worried about the pitching one bit, I like the odds that enough of the prospects will step up and fill out the rotation and pen successfully. Disco, Lorenzen and Iglesias are already on the right track.

[AverageJoesGym]

Who'd the A's trade last year to get Lester?

 

 

That was a rare occurrence. Not only that but it was a unique situation. The A's traded Cespedes because he was going to be a free agent after the 2015 season. There was a clause in his contract that stipulated that the A's (or whoever he was playing for) would not receive a compensatory pick if he left as a free agent. The A's felt like they had to have a pitcher to make a run so they went all in. The Red Sox auditioned Cespedes and decided to spin him to the Tigers for Porcello. Had Cespedes not had that clause in his contract the A's likely would have held on to him and looked elsewhere for pitching.

[Clyde]

That was a rare occurrence. Not only that but it was a unique situation. The A's traded Cespedes because he was going to be a free agent after the 2015 season. There was a clause in his contract that stipulated that the A's (or whoever he was playing for) would not receive a compensatory pick if he left as a free agent. The A's felt like they had to have a pitcher to make a run so they went all in. The Red Sox auditioned Cespedes and decided to spin him to the Tigers for Porcello. Had Cespedes not had that clause in his contract the A's likely would have held on to him and looked elsewhere for pitching.

 

This trade is the Haley's Comet of trades. You don't see it very often.

 

A's were all in AND they had traded their best prospects already so if they wanted Lester they had to go MLB talent because they had nothing the BoSox were interested in.

 

When is the last time there was a trade like this? Do we have to go back to the 90s?

[AverageJoesGym]

This trade is the Haley's Comet of trades. You don't see it very often.

 

A's were all in AND they had traded their best prospects already so if they wanted Lester they had to go MLB talent because they had nothing the BoSox were interested in.

 

When is the last time there was a trade like this? Do we have to go back to the 90s?

 

No, probably the 3 team deal between the Red Sox, Pirates and Dodgers in 2008 that saw Manny Ramirez, Jason Bay, Andy LaRoche, Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen change teams.

[Hellbird]

I'm confused. Is your argument that they should have gotten more in this trade?

My argument is they shouldn't have been in this position in the first place. They overpay for Bailey when even 2 years ago everyone knew they spent it on the wrong guy but they did because his contract was coming up first. Should have traded Bailey and got prospects then and signed Cueto last year.

 

The point is they are in this situation because they have an owner who can't afford

to compete. Cueto should

have been signed last year to a 5 year deal. Bailey should

be pitching for another club and the prospects you got for Bailey would be trying to prove their worth.

 

Thats just for starters.

[gametime]

My argument is they shouldn't have been in this position in the first place. They overpay for Bailey when even 2 years ago everyone knew they spent it on the wrong guy but they did because his contract was coming up first. Should have traded Bailey and got prospects then and signed Cueto last year.

 

The point is they are in this situation because they have an owner who can't afford

to compete. Cueto should

have been signed last year to a 5 year deal. Bailey should

be pitching for another club and the prospects you got for Bailey would be trying to prove their worth.

 

Thats just for starters.

 

They signed Bailey in large part because he was going to be a lot cheaper than Cueto and even Latos. Even if they didn't sign Homer, Cueto was g oing to get in the 150 million range at that point and that wasn't going to happen.

 

If you want to complain about giving Homer 100 mil when they could have signed Leake long term for a little over half that, and I'm with you. Cueto pitched himself out of the Reds price range long before this year...

[NKYknowitall]

Well see, anyone who knows anything about baseball knows Bailey has better stuff because he was a higher rated "prospect" and I read "insider" reports that said he did. I'd be shocked if he's not a 5 time all star. Plus, I know the game and I know pitching, and I'm telling you he does.

 

Sarcasm firmly intact for the entire above.

 

Gotta be careful in these threads, a lot of these guys not only invented the game, but they also have doctorate's in Moneyball.

 

I'm fully aware of that. As well as Bailey is a GOD on here.

[John Anthony]

I totally agree with GT, Reds will probably never be able to own a 25 mil per year pitcher. We can wish though.

[Hellbird]

LOL. I knew someone would be quick to point out the Cespedes trade. That's one case, sure it happens I never said that it didn't but it's not common.

 

Why in the world do we need Leake and Cueto on a team that is struggling to stay out of the cellar? Was next years team going to be any different. It's time to go in a new direction. Cueto is one of the best pitchers in Reds history and he will be tough to replace but if any team can replace him it's the Reds. The Reds have built maybe the most talented collection of arms in any farm system at one time ever. If you are so well versed on the Reds farm system you already know that. They are prospects and a lot can go wrong with them but you can't deny the talent level and depth of pitching is ridiculous right now. I'm not worried about the pitching one bit, I like the odds that enough of the prospects will step up and fill out the rotation and pen successfully. Disco, Lorenzen and Iglesias are already on the right track.

Wow, keep drinking the kool aide

 

"The Reds have built maybe the most talented collection of arms in any farm system at one time ever."

really?????? I think the Atlanta Braves would have something to say about that.

 

So so sad that a team with the best pitching ever can't find relievers that can't hold leads. Our hitting is bad, but is it 20 games out of the wild card bad????? I would think that awesome pitching we have would have a little to do with that don't you think?

[HammerTime]

8th out of 15 NL teams in runs scored just slightly (5 runs) behind the Cardinals.

13 out of 15 in ERA in the NL. Cardinals #1

 

Cardinals are in first by a wide margin. So yeah I think pitching is a problem at the moment. It's a good thing to have a lot of good young options to develop.

[nkufan23]

Wow, keep drinking the kool aide

 

"The Reds have built maybe the most talented collection of arms in any farm system at one time ever."

really?????? I think the Atlanta Braves would have something to say about that.

 

So so sad that a team with the best pitching ever can't find relievers that can't hold leads. Our hitting is bad, but is it 20 games out of the wild card bad????? I would think that awesome pitching we have would have a little to do with that don't you think?

 

Do the names Kevin Gregg, Jason Marquis, Burke Badenhop and Jumbo Diaz ring a bell. These guys can be to blame for a lot of blown ball games this season. They are not prospects at all and definitely not who I was speaking of when I talk about a stacked farm full of pitching prospects. The Reds bullpen will be in much better hands in the next several years as the arms I speak of make their way onto the big league roster.

[Sandman]

LOL. I knew someone would be quick to point out the Cespedes trade. That's one case, sure it happens I never said that it didn't but it's not common.

 

That was a rare occurrence. Not only that but it was a unique situation. The A's traded Cespedes because he was going to be a free agent after the 2015 season. There was a clause in his contract that stipulated that the A's (or whoever he was playing for) would not receive a compensatory pick if he left as a free agent. The A's felt like they had to have a pitcher to make a run so they went all in. The Red Sox auditioned Cespedes and decided to spin him to the Tigers for Porcello. Had Cespedes not had that clause in his contract the A's likely would have held on to him and looked elsewhere for pitching.

 

This trade is the Haley's Comet of trades. You don't see it very often.

 

A's were all in AND they had traded their best prospects already so if they wanted Lester they had to go MLB talent because they had nothing the BoSox were interested in.

 

When is the last time there was a trade like this? Do we have to go back to the 90s?

 

Everyone's back tracking on the simple question proves my point well enough I suppose.