Serious Question for UK Fans

[SSC]

I feel like I say this every 3 months or so, but here goes again:

 

These issues are more frequent b/c the NBA changed the rules on when players are eligible for the draft. Let's just look at the last two cases for Cal. Rose was ruled eligible by the NCAA and after the season was over they decided he didn't take his test that qualified him. Who had more to gain from Rose becoming eligible? Rose and his family or Cal? I seriously doubt Cal has any knowledge he didn't take the test. Wall will be ruled eligible by the NCAA. His issues have to do w/ an AAU coach who was at one point an agent. Again these palyers and "advisors" have way more to gain than the coaches. Cal knows the microscope is on him. So he can either start recruiting like Duke and whining to the refs every call all whille not playing past the 1st weekend of the NCAA's b/c they aren't athletic enough, or recruit great athletes not all that interested in 4 years of schooling. Right now b/c he came from Memphis they are taking as many 5 stars as he can get and giving it a try. I'm glad he is. If the NBA doesn't make a change to the rule this will go on forever. These kids are mostly poor and they don't understand until it's too late what it takes to become eligible. They get to a point where their advisors have to get them eligible somehow. They risk too much money not too.

[Wireman]

Every school that recruited John Wall knew of this issue and ultimately decided it was not a big deal. Did you ever think that Calipari deals with these types of issues because he recruits the top players in every class?

 

It's not a question of his responsibility to know - he absolutely knows and has known from the start. This is also an issue with C.J. Leslie, who will eventually end up being a Wildcat, IMO.

[formerkywrestler]

It happens. As long as Wall/UK are honest with the NCAA all should be fine.

[Hatz]

Ok after all this with John Wall I can understand how people would say oh it's not Cal's fault, Cal didn't know etc.. etc... But, my question for UK fans is, at what point does it becomes Calipari's responsibility to know? I mean say this doesn't come out until next summer and UK is stripped of a final four because of it. At what point should it be Cal's responsibility to know who the players he signs have dealt with? Or is it always the players fault and Cal is just an innocent victim?

 

It's just now this is the fourth big time player on one of Calipari's team to have serious eligibility issues.

 

 

Define "serious."

 

I think you are taking four different scenarios that are independent of one another and combining them into the same level of malfeasance. (sp?)

 

BTW, for what it's worth, I remember James Lee, Jack Givens and someone else missing the first game of the 1978 seasons for playing in a summer league that was improper. The difference between then and now is the coverage the internet IMO.

[formerkywrestler]

Define "serious."

 

I think you are taking four different scenarios that are independent of one another and combining them into the same level of malfeasance. (sp?)

 

BTW, for what it's worth, I remember James Lee, Jack Givens and someone else missing the first game of the 1978 seasons for playing in a summer league that was improper. The difference between then and now is the coverage the internet IMO.

Good point, the internets magnify every issue.

[Hatz]

Believe me, I've lived in the state all my life and grew up on UK basketball. I've surrounded myself with many UK fans and have been to many games at Rupp. I'm not spitballing on what I have observed.

 

Does the UNC radio network have a special segment in their postgame show tracking their all time wins? UK does. Go back and track some of the threads on here dealing with UNC closing in on UK on the wins list. The threads are laughable.

 

I didnt say all UK fans would react that way. But guaranteed there are people who would be more upset with UNC passing UK in all-time wins than having conference and possibly national titles stripped.

 

Here's to hoping we don't see the day comes that proves me right.

 

 

 

Actually, living down here in Tar Hole Land, I can tell you that what UNC's official Basketball Office does that worse than counting wins.

 

They claim mythical titles. Check out the official sites and shirts and they list the 1924 Helms Foundation Honored team as the National Champions. When I asked some UNC people they said, "Well, they were honored as such so we are right in claiming them for the title. So that gives us four. (This was around 2003)"

 

I then told them it was great with me. UK has 2 of those so that gives the Cats 9. :lol:

[Hatz]

I was not aware of the clarification. Thanks.

 

I root for UK. I don't drink the blue Kool-Aid however. I don't think there is some media conspiracy to bring down the UK Hoops Empire. I don't think the NCAA rigs the tourney brackets against UK. All of which have been threads started here on BGP.

 

I just try and look at it from neutral standpoint. When they do well, I give them credit. But if there is a hint of smoke, I will question it before it becomes fire.

 

I have said all along there is no way Sandy Bell signs off on the Calipari hire if there were any hint of inpropriety. And I'm sure she's been equally busy with the recruitment of Wall. If there was any question, she would have him held out of activities and practice.

 

Like I said, Calipari is going to recruit a style and personality of players to UK the fanbase, media, and public aren't used to. And as long as they win, it won't be questioned by the fan base.

 

As do I. I hate blue Kool-Aid. :puke:

 

To me it is so fascinating that so many people get riled up when Cal has yet to put a team on the floor at UK.

[mobaar]

If UK wins a title or two, most fans would care less how they achieved it.

 

If UK wins a title or two and then have to vacate them, they will blame someone that's not Calipari because "he didn't know."

 

Honestly, I see more UK fans getting upset if they have to vacate wins and North Carolina passes them on the All-Time wins list.

 

What's your beef with UK fans? Did a UK fan break your sister's heart and swindle your grandmother?

[Log Mountain Boy]

My question is this to Scribe and HT721. Would you be criticizing Roy Williams if John Wall would have went to UNC and this came up? Because Duke and UNC offered him a scholarship. What about all the schools that offered Derrick Rose a scholarship? Should we be criticizing all those coaches too?

[hoopboy]

I love how some UK fans go so far out of their way to prove to the world that they're not one of the "18%" that they have to continuosly bash anyone who has anything good to say about the UK basketball program. Who is really obsessed here?

[HT721]

My question is this to Scribe and HT721. Would you be criticizing Roy Williams if John Wall would have went to UNC and this came up? Because Duke and UNC offered him a scholarship. What about all the schools that offered Derrick Rose a scholarship? Should we be criticizing all those coaches too?

 

I would if there coach had a history of players being ruled ineligible later that lead to multiple final fours being taken away. That's why I see this as a major issue for Cal, at some point you can't just blame the players in my opinion. And I can understand the argument he may have not reached that point yet, I just wonder when UK fans think the point is, that it becomes his responsibility to know.

[pigman]

^ To be completely honest if wins are vacated at UK most of us will probably blame Cal. Wasn't happening since Sutton left and I still blame him for what happened then.

[Warrior32]

What's your beef with UK fans? Did a UK fan break your sister's heart and swindle your grandmother?

 

Would like to know also, He seems to bash UK a lot...And the fans

[bugatti]

I would if there coach had a history of players being ruled ineligible later that lead to multiple final fours being taken away. That's why I see this as a major issue for Cal, at some point you can't just blame the players in my opinion. And I can understand the argument he may have not reached that point yet, I just wonder when UK fans think the point is, that it becomes his responsibility to know.

I think it is a very legit question, HT721. I am not saying Coach Cal has done anything wrong, but I would be naive to turn a blind eye to all of the smoke that surrounds him and where has been thus far. Is there a fire? Who knows? Add to the fact the stupid 1 year college rule, it places programs and players in difficult situations.

[Randy Parker]

I was not aware of the clarification. Thanks.

 

I root for UK. I don't drink the blue Kool-Aid however. I don't think there is some media conspiracy to bring down the UK Hoops Empire. I don't think the NCAA rigs the tourney brackets against UK. All of which have been threads started here on BGP.

 

I just try and look at it from neutral standpoint. When they do well, I give them credit. But if there is a hint of smoke, I will question it before it becomes fire.

 

I have said all along there is no way Sandy Bell signs off on the Calipari hire if there were any hint of inpropriety. And I'm sure she's been equally busy with the recruitment of Wall. If there was any question, she would have him held out of activities and practice.

 

Like I said, Calipari is going to recruit a style and personality of players to UK the fanbase, media, and public aren't used to. And as long as they win, it won't be questioned by the fan base.

 

While they may not rig the brackets against UK, I don't see how anybody could argue that the NCAA doesn't make arrangements for other schools to consistently play close to home. How many times in recent memory have we seen Duke & UNC playing in their own state?

 

Then take into consideration UK in 2003. #1 overall seed and they get shipped to the midwest (Minnesota) and they play two teams (Wisconsin & Marquette) in their own backyard during the rounds of 16 & 8. I don't have all the knowledge of previous tournaments, but I highly doubt UNC would ever have to face that kind of schedule if it were the #1 overall seed.

 

I think I'd also disagree on Sandy Bell. I don't think poor Sandy had any say in the matter regarding Cal. I think UK was desperate to win ASAP, and they chose to bring in a coach with a reputation for being shady. Now, my opinion is that every major D-1 coach cheats, or is at least aware of cheating. But Cal has that reputation more so than others.

 

UK has recruited players like Cal is doing right now, but just not on the scale he'll recruit them. We've had our Jason Parkers, Rashaad Carruths, and Gerald Fitchs before (yes, Gerald Fitch was a problem for quite a while). Cal will bring these guys en masse, whereas in the past they came along once a year or once every two years.

 

Disagree on your previous comment about getting passed up in wins by UNC. I do watch those numbers, and I don't want UNC to pass us. But if we get to the end of the year, I'll take a national title over all time wins any day.

 

Agree with you on how winning satisfies the fan base. I am fully aware of Cal's reputation, yet he is who I wanted this go-around. More than any other coach in basketball, I think he can make UK a winner right away. I know there is risk, but I know there is reward too. So I can be lumped in with those who, whether we want to admit it or not, are most concerned with wins & losses.