College Football Is Broken: How To Fix It

[TheDeuce]

On 6/12/2021 at 11:06 AM, Jumper_Dad said:

The SEC would probably love to be able to host a couple of games each season. Why would they hate it? I know everyone is going to say, because they don't want to take a chance on playing up north in the cold. But how many teams really want to roll into Tuscaloosa or Athens and face that atmosphere either.

It's not about atmosphere, it's about elements. Nobody would argue that the SEC has some of best atmoshpere's in CFB. 

[GrantNKY]

On 6/12/2021 at 10:06 AM, Jumper_Dad said:

The SEC would probably love to be able to host a couple of games each season. Why would they hate it? I know everyone is going to say, because they don't want to take a chance on playing up north in the cold. But how many teams really want to roll into Tuscaloosa or Athens and face that atmosphere either.

That said, I don't see the semis ever being on campus. It's probably fairest to the teams to be at a neutral site.

Imagine if college basketball playoffs was played on campus and you had to play the first round of the final four at Cameron, Rupp or Allen Fieldhouse...everyone would be screaming about how unfair that it was.

Neutral site games are a travesty. Traditional bowl games are fine. But the early season neutral site games, playoff games, national championship price out 99.9% of fans. Realistically between ticket prices, air fare, hotel rooms, etc. you’re looking at over $5k per person. The atmospheres suffer from that. The atmospheres of games are part of what make college football so great. I think home games for the higher seed until the finals is the best way to go personally and I think it would add more to the sport. Every other American sport does that. With the proposal there is a defined characteristic. Take the 4 highest ranked conference champions, then rank the remaining 8 teams. If you didn’t get home field advantage you should have won your conference. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[GrantNKY]

On 6/11/2021 at 10:26 AM, futurecoach said:

For me it wasn’t perfect, because a team should be able to go into a season and know exactly what they would have to do to be able to have a chance to compete for a title. Players put in so much time and effort, they should be able to truly know what they have to do to have a chance to compete for a title. College football has always been basically the only sport, where a team literally could do everything it is supposed to do and still not get a chance to compete for a title. 

The four team playoff was better than the old BCS. However, it still left it to where teams still would not know before the season if they would get a chance to compete for a title. Now with 12 teams, a team can go into it and know they control their own fate in regards to having a chance to win the title. If you are a P5 school win your conference and you know you are in, you don’t have to worry about hoping human opinion thinking you are better than another team.  Then even non P5 teams at least know they will have one guaranteed spot and still a small outside chance for an at large. 
 

College football is still going to be great, because people love football. Just like how the NFL is the most popular Pro sport, and is popular year round. Adding 12 teams is not going to take away from the season. In fact it may give us even more big time non conference games. Teams won’t have to be afraid of scheduling top non conference games and possibly losing a game. Since they would know they would still control their fate by winning their conference. IMO it will give us even more top non conference matchups. Which to me makes it more exciting. 
 

So for me this makes college football even better, but that’s just my opinion. 

My thing with college football and part of why I love it so much is the best team gets crowned national champion every single year. That’s the goal of the season from my perspective. Find the best team. College football does that better than any sport in the US. If Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State win it every year then so be it. I’m fine with that. Despite me hating Bama, I don’t get tired of them winning it because I just want to see the best team. That’s why I, despite growing up in Kentucky, never got along with college basketball. The best team doesn’t always win. The NCAA Tournament means nothing to me because it’s just a tournament. It’s not about finding the best team. Yes the tournament is fun, yes upsets are fun. But calling the winner of that tournament the best team in college basketball is a joke. College football is about finding the best team every single year and at the end of the year everyone agrees. There’s nothing to argue about. It’s indisputable. Everyone on here agrees UK was far and away the best basketball team in the country in 2015. But they didn’t win a stupid end of the season 68 team lose and go home tournament. I agree that the current 12 team proposed format for CFB wouldn’t get us to that level, but any slight turn towards that model gives me pause. In the end I’m ok with it, but this needs to be the end all be all. You can’t expand past 12. This needs to be the model for naming a national champion for the next 100 years. 

[Jumper_Dad]

5 hours ago, GrantNKY said:

Neutral site games are a travesty. Traditional bowl games are fine. But the early season neutral site games, playoff games, national championship price out 99.9% of fans. Realistically between ticket prices, air fare, hotel rooms, etc. you’re looking at over $5k per person. The atmospheres suffer from that. The atmospheres of games are part of what make college football so great. I think home games for the higher seed until the finals is the best way to go personally and I think it would add more to the sport. Every other American sport does that. With the proposal there is a defined characteristic. Take the 4 highest ranked conference champions, then rank the remaining 8 teams. If you didn’t get home field advantage you should have won your conference. 🤷🏻‍♂️

If it is a national playoff game on campus, it will also be priced out for 99.9% of fans. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State or whoever is hosting will not be allowed to just fill it up with season ticket holders. Visiting teams will get more tickets than normal and corporate tickets will be made available to those footing the bill for the games. There would be a homefield advantage for sure, but it won't be as it is for a typical home game.

I think semi-finals should be at a neutral site, but I won't be mad if they aren't. I like the 4 highest ranked champions and the next 8 model. I'm completely against automatic qualifiers. I don't want to see some 6-6 or 7-5  Conf USA team in over a 10-2 Power 5 team, that deserves to be in. 

[bugatti]

5 hours ago, GrantNKY said:

My thing with college football and part of why I love it so much is the best team gets crowned national champion every single year. That’s the goal of the season from my perspective. Find the best team. College football does that better than any sport in the US. If Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State win it every year then so be it. I’m fine with that. Despite me hating Bama, I don’t get tired of them winning it because I just want to see the best team. That’s why I, despite growing up in Kentucky, never got along with college basketball. The best team doesn’t always win. The NCAA Tournament means nothing to me because it’s just a tournament. It’s not about finding the best team. Yes the tournament is fun, yes upsets are fun. But calling the winner of that tournament the best team in college basketball is a joke. College football is about finding the best team every single year and at the end of the year everyone agrees. There’s nothing to argue about. It’s indisputable. Everyone on here agrees UK was far and away the best basketball team in the country in 2015. But they didn’t win a stupid end of the season 68 team lose and go home tournament. I agree that the current 12 team proposed format for CFB wouldn’t get us to that level, but any slight turn towards that model gives me pause. In the end I’m ok with it, but this needs to be the end all be all. You can’t expand past 12. This needs to be the model for naming a national champion for the next 100 years. 

I am pretty well in-line with most of your thinking. I always hate the argument, "well, other divisions have a 16+ team tournament and it works." Well, yeah. Make it 43 teams. Whatever number you set "will work" in that someone is crowned champion, but there is a sweet spot between doing nothing and over-saturation.

And for the record, expanding the field means nothing. North Dakota State has won 8 of the past 10 FCS titles. In Division 3, only five schools have won titles the last 23 years (18 by two schools). It's not as if the wealth is spread across these divisions.

[DragonFire]

2 hours ago, bugatti said:

I am pretty well in-line with most of your thinking. I always hate the argument, "well, other divisions have a 16+ team tournament and it works." Well, yeah. Make it 43 teams. Whatever number you set "will work" in that someone is crowned champion, but there is a sweet spot between doing nothing and over-saturation.

And for the record, expanding the field means nothing. North Dakota State has won 8 of the past 10 FCS titles. In Division 3, only five schools have won titles the last 23 years (18 by two schools). It's not as if the wealth is spread across these divisions.

I think the “it works for other divisions” argument was more when the FBS kept throwing up their hands and insisting they couldn’t do a playoff because of academics and the calendar, insisting that the schedule disruption would just be impossible to overcome. It was just so clearly a lie given that other collegiate divisions were doing exactly that. 

[futurecoach]

10 hours ago, GrantNKY said:

My thing with college football and part of why I love it so much is the best team gets crowned national champion every single year. That’s the goal of the season from my perspective. Find the best team. College football does that better than any sport in the US. If Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State win it every year then so be it. I’m fine with that. Despite me hating Bama, I don’t get tired of them winning it because I just want to see the best team. That’s why I, despite growing up in Kentucky, never got along with college basketball. The best team doesn’t always win. The NCAA Tournament means nothing to me because it’s just a tournament. It’s not about finding the best team. Yes the tournament is fun, yes upsets are fun. But calling the winner of that tournament the best team in college basketball is a joke. College football is about finding the best team every single year and at the end of the year everyone agrees. There’s nothing to argue about. It’s indisputable. Everyone on here agrees UK was far and away the best basketball team in the country in 2015. But they didn’t win a stupid end of the season 68 team lose and go home tournament. I agree that the current 12 team proposed format for CFB wouldn’t get us to that level, but any slight turn towards that model gives me pause. In the end I’m ok with it, but this needs to be the end all be all. You can’t expand past 12. This needs to be the model for naming a national champion for the next 100 years. 

I’ll just say this I disagree with the statement that college football always crowns the true best team National Champ, because there is no way to know that for sure. College football for the majority of its existence has crowned its champs more on human opinion, or what a computer system said was the best. While it is easy for human opinion to think after the fact, that yeah that team was the best. There was no way to know for sure. It truly isn’t getting completely decided on the field, when some teams don’t even get the chance to decide it on the field. Human opinion should not be stopping say a power conference champ from getting a chance to play for a title. Or even in UC’s case last year, do I think they would have won it no. Should they have been given a chance to prove it on the field in the playoffs, absolutely! Just because many humans wouldn’t think they would win it, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get the chance, when they did everything they were suppose to in its season. 
 

Quite honestly your OSU team from 2014 is the perfect example. Majority of people wouldn’t have thought OSU with their third string QB would first beat Bama and then also a great Oregon team. However, OSU was fortunate enough to be given their chance to prove it on the field in the playoffs. While TCU which also very easily could have been the 4 seed instead, was not given that chance. It is easy to think no way TCU does what OSU does and the committee was right to pick OSU, but we will never know. Just like going into it, no one but OSU would have thought they would end up doing what did. Yet OSU was given the chance to prove it and they took advantage of it. They very easily could have been left out, and another team could have been crowned champs, and no one would ever known that OSU with their third string QB truly was the best. Teams have to be given the chance to prove it. 
 

Which as mentioned a 12 team playoff won’t probably give us anymore new champs. In fact it will help even more the power teams like a Bama and OSU. However, now IMO you can truly call the best team a true NATIONAL Champ. Since it truly would be decided on the field and teams would be given their fair chance to compete for a title. Since most teams now know going into the season they truly control their destiny, because if they win their conference they are in and would get the chance to compete for the title then. This would truly allow us to know without a doubt who was the best. 

[CincySportsFan]

9 hours ago, futurecoach said:

Quite honestly your OSU team from 2014 is the perfect example. Majority of people wouldn’t have thought OSU with their third string QB would first beat Bama and then also a great Oregon team. However, OSU was fortunate enough to be given their chance to prove it on the field in the playoffs. While TCU which also very easily could have been the 4 seed instead, was not given that chance. It is easy to think no way TCU does what OSU does and the committee was right to pick OSU, but we will never know. Just like going into it, no one but OSU would have thought they would end up doing what did. Yet OSU was given the chance to prove it and they took advantage of it. They very easily could have been left out, and another team could have been crowned champs, and no one would ever known that OSU with their third string QB truly was the best. Teams have to be given the chance to prove it. 
 

Which as mentioned a 12 team playoff won’t probably give us anymore new champs. In fact it will help even more the power teams like a Bama and OSU. However, now IMO you can truly call the best team a true NATIONAL Champ. Since it truly would be decided on the field and teams would be given their fair chance to compete for a title. Since most teams now know going into the season they truly control their destiny, because if they win their conference they are in and would get the chance to compete for the title then. This would truly allow us to know without a doubt who was the best. 

As many may already know, I am an OSU fan...and even I use this example when people say "Well, they got it right. Those were the four best teams."  Horse hockey.  Nobody truly knows anything, aside from what was actually played.

If you think a group of people and/or computer can accurately determine who the best FOUR teams are...then, it should be a piece of cake to have those same people/computer pick the best ONE team.  So, why even bother having the playoffs?  Might as well go back to the old bowl conference tie-ins.  Then do your stupid poll afterwards and we can all argue over that.

But, somebody said...wouldn't it be nice if we could get the top 2 teams to play each other?  I mean, we already have had this season long poll/ranking that's determined who the top team is, but maybe it's wrong every now and then.  Who knows how often...1 out of 10? 1 out of 5, or maybe a stretch 1 out of 4?  So, for 16 years we play #1 vs. #2, and how many times does #1 win?  Eight.  Only 50% of the time!  And of the 8 times that #2 won, 5 of them were by more than one score!  So much for having an accurately predicted #1 team.

Ahhhh...well, if the poll/computer can be wrong about #1 and #2...what about if we add #3 and #4 into the mix.  Surely to goodness that's just a fluke involving the top, top, top teams.  It won't come into play adding two more teams to the mix.  We'll still end up with #1 vs. #2 the majority of the time, right?  Well, in the 7 years of the CFP, we've had that scenario only 3 times!  And #2 has won all 3 times!  In fact, we've had the same amount of champions come from the #4 seed, as we have from the #1 seed.

My point in all of this is we don't know crap.  We can give it our best educated guess, but that's all that it is.  Let's settle this on the field.  Every 130 schools should have the opportunity to prove themselves against a team lined up across from them.  They shouldn't have to show anything to anyone else, whether human or computer (because we all know how well that's worked out in the past).  Give all the conference champions an automatic bid.  Take four other at-large teams, to help compensate for "tougher" conference play...and let's play. 

[GrantNKY]

17 hours ago, Jumper_Dad said:

If it is a national playoff game on campus, it will also be priced out for 99.9% of fans. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State or whoever is hosting will not be allowed to just fill it up with season ticket holders. Visiting teams will get more tickets than normal and corporate tickets will be made available to those footing the bill for the games. There would be a homefield advantage for sure, but it won't be as it is for a typical home game.

I think semi-finals should be at a neutral site, but I won't be mad if they aren't. I like the 4 highest ranked champions and the next 8 model. I'm completely against automatic qualifiers. I don't want to see some 6-6 or 7-5  Conf USA team in over a 10-2 Power 5 team, that deserves to be in. 

But at least season ticket holders will get to go. Not having to add in insane travel costs make it more reasonable for the average fan. The average fan if they really wanted to, could probably come up with a $1000 for an experience of a lifetime to go to a playoff game at their home field. Traveling to another part of the country and paying $5k plus is just out of the question for almost all of us. 
 

I’ve always agreed with your point that automatic qualifiers are a no go. No reason for a team with 4 losses to automatically get in. The 4 highest ranked champions is a good compromise because the odds of 4 power 5 champions being ranked around 4 anyways is pretty good. Only Alabama and Ohio State have gotten in without winning their conference anyways and the team that won the conference was either in the playoff (Georgia) or right on the edge (Penn State). 

[bugatti]

6 minutes ago, GrantNKY said:

I’ve always agreed with your point that automatic qualifiers are a no go. No reason for a team with 4 losses to automatically get in. The 4 highest ranked champions is a good compromise because the odds of 4 power 5 champions being ranked around 4 anyways is pretty good. Only Alabama and Ohio State have gotten in without winning their conference anyways and the team that won the conference was either in the playoff (Georgia) or right on the edge (Penn State). 

With you here.

I'm sorry, I don't need to see a 7-5 Buffalo team in the expanded playoffs. This isn't March Madness.

[GrantNKY]

17 hours ago, bugatti said:

I am pretty well in-line with most of your thinking. I always hate the argument, "well, other divisions have a 16+ team tournament and it works." Well, yeah. Make it 43 teams. Whatever number you set "will work" in that someone is crowned champion, but there is a sweet spot between doing nothing and over-saturation.

And for the record, expanding the field means nothing. North Dakota State has won 8 of the past 10 FCS titles. In Division 3, only five schools have won titles the last 23 years (18 by two schools). It's not as if the wealth is spread across these divisions.

Exactly. People are infatuated with this idea of upsets. But upsets happen in the regular season of college football. They rarely happen in the college football playoff. I’m not sure we’ve had a legit upset (more than a 1or 2 point spread) in the playoff since the first year when Ohio State upset Bama and Oregon. Upsets can and likely will happen in those 5-12 seeds in the first round because that’s where its tougher to differentiate and all of those teams have shown multiple weaknesses that have been exploited at times during the regular season and caused them to lose a game or two. At the end of the day though it’s still basically a formality because it’s going to be Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and either Georgia or Oklahoma for the foreseeable future, 

[GrantNKY]

13 hours ago, futurecoach said:

I’ll just say this I disagree with the statement that college football always crowns the true best team National Champ, because there is no way to know that for sure. College football for the majority of its existence has crowned its champs more on human opinion, or what a computer system said was the best. While it is easy for human opinion to think after the fact, that yeah that team was the best. There was no way to know for sure. It truly isn’t getting completely decided on the field, when some teams don’t even get the chance to decide it on the field. Human opinion should not be stopping say a power conference champ from getting a chance to play for a title. Or even in UC’s case last year, do I think they would have won it no. Should they have been given a chance to prove it on the field in the playoffs, absolutely! Just because many humans wouldn’t think they would win it, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get the chance, when they did everything they were suppose to in its season. 
 

Quite honestly your OSU team from 2014 is the perfect example. Majority of people wouldn’t have thought OSU with their third string QB would first beat Bama and then also a great Oregon team. However, OSU was fortunate enough to be given their chance to prove it on the field in the playoffs. While TCU which also very easily could have been the 4 seed instead, was not given that chance. It is easy to think no way TCU does what OSU does and the committee was right to pick OSU, but we will never know. Just like going into it, no one but OSU would have thought they would end up doing what did. Yet OSU was given the chance to prove it and they took advantage of it. They very easily could have been left out, and another team could have been crowned champs, and no one would ever known that OSU with their third string QB truly was the best. Teams have to be given the chance to prove it. 
 

Which as mentioned a 12 team playoff won’t probably give us anymore new champs. In fact it will help even more the power teams like a Bama and OSU. However, now IMO you can truly call the best team a true NATIONAL Champ. Since it truly would be decided on the field and teams would be given their fair chance to compete for a title. Since most teams now know going into the season they truly control their destiny, because if they win their conference they are in and would get the chance to compete for the title then. This would truly allow us to know without a doubt who was the best. 

Since we have adopted the 4 team playoff has there been a year where we are left with doubt that the team that won was the best team? No. That’s the goal and it’s working extremely well as far as I’m concerned. Every team in a power 5 conference going in to the season does control their own destiny going in to the season. Don’t lose. It’s that simple. Under the current structure, no power 5 team is going to be left out if they win their conference. It won’t happen. So they already control their destiny. If they lose a game then they lose the right to control their own destiny because if other teams go undefeated, they were better than that team for the entirety of the season. Week 1 matters just as much as week 13. The regular season is the playoff. Don’t lose, and you’re in. No questions asked. I don’t think that 12 teams is going to drastically change that. The top 4 teams are going to be wildly better than everyone else still. I don’t think adding more teams as fodder for Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State who have proved they belong over the course of the season does anything to make their national championship more legitimate. We have a legitimate champion already. I’m simply ok with the 12 team playoff structure because we get more football, more fun matchups, and the cool atmospheres of playoff games being played at a home field. It changes nothing as far as the legitimacy of the eventual champion. At least in my eyes. 

[GrantNKY]

13 minutes ago, bugatti said:

With you here.

I'm sorry, I don't need to see a 7-5 Buffalo team in the expanded playoffs. This isn't March Madness.

Agreed. I consider myself a supporter of G5 football. That’s why even though they will be included in the new 12 team system, they should really just have their own playoff. I’d even be fine with making it a P6 by adding the AAC because despite not being on the P5 level, they are clearly leaps and bounds better than every other G5 league. But the MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, and CUSA aren’t in a position where they deserve to be given an automatic spot just to be fodder for Alabama. 

[futurecoach]

5 hours ago, GrantNKY said:

Since we have adopted the 4 team playoff has there been a year where we are left with doubt that the team that won was the best team? No. That’s the goal and it’s working extremely well as far as I’m concerned. Every team in a power 5 conference going in to the season does control their own destiny going in to the season. Don’t lose. It’s that simple. Under the current structure, no power 5 team is going to be left out if they win their conference. It won’t happen. So they already control their destiny. If they lose a game then they lose the right to control their own destiny because if other teams go undefeated, they were better than that team for the entirety of the season. Week 1 matters just as much as week 13. The regular season is the playoff. Don’t lose, and you’re in. No questions asked. I don’t think that 12 teams is going to drastically change that. The top 4 teams are going to be wildly better than everyone else still. I don’t think adding more teams as fodder for Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State who have proved they belong over the course of the season does anything to make their national championship more legitimate. We have a legitimate champion already. I’m simply ok with the 12 team playoff structure because we get more football, more fun matchups, and the cool atmospheres of playoff games being played at a home field. It changes nothing as far as the legitimacy of the eventual champion. At least in my eyes. 

That is simply not true. Under the current system an undefeated power 5 champ could be left out of the playoff. While the odds of it are small, it is possible to have 5 undefeated P5 champs. So it would be ok to wait until one day that possibly happen, and say dang great season, but we’re sorry we don’t believe you are as good as the other 4, so you won’t get your chance. 
 

As for have we ended the season with doubt if a team was the best. We truly would never know. Just like even in 2014, we have no idea how TCU would have done if they got the 4 seed instead of OSU. Maybe they do what OSU does and wins it all too. While I know it is easy to say, no way they do that. The same could have been said about there is no way OSU with a third string QB does it. Yet they were able to prove it because they were given the chance. Shoot in a couple of these playoffs, as much as I don’t like OSU. In a few of the playoffs that they did miss out, I think if they were given the chance to play that they may have been able to pull off the upset like they did in 2014. You just never know, and shouldn’t just be human opinion deciding who deserves that chance and who doesn’t. 
 

That has always been my issue with college football, and I have argued it every year on here lol. So yeah for me I think going to 12 teams is great, and now probably makes college football the best regular season still in sports, but also a better post season now too. This is a great thing  IMO, and will crown a true NATIONAL champ. 

[futurecoach]

8 hours ago, CincySportsFan said:

As many may already know, I am an OSU fan...and even I use this example when people say "Well, they got it right. Those were the four best teams."  Horse hockey.  Nobody truly knows anything, aside from what was actually played.

If you think a group of people and/or computer can accurately determine who the best FOUR teams are...then, it should be a piece of cake to have those same people/computer pick the best ONE team.  So, why even bother having the playoffs?  Might as well go back to the old bowl conference tie-ins.  Then do your stupid poll afterwards and we can all argue over that.

But, somebody said...wouldn't it be nice if we could get the top 2 teams to play each other?  I mean, we already have had this season long poll/ranking that's determined who the top team is, but maybe it's wrong every now and then.  Who knows how often...1 out of 10? 1 out of 5, or maybe a stretch 1 out of 4?  So, for 16 years we play #1 vs. #2, and how many times does #1 win?  Eight.  Only 50% of the time!  And of the 8 times that #2 won, 5 of them were by more than one score!  So much for having an accurately predicted #1 team.

Ahhhh...well, if the poll/computer can be wrong about #1 and #2...what about if we add #3 and #4 into the mix.  Surely to goodness that's just a fluke involving the top, top, top teams.  It won't come into play adding two more teams to the mix.  We'll still end up with #1 vs. #2 the majority of the time, right?  Well, in the 7 years of the CFP, we've had that scenario only 3 times!  And #2 has won all 3 times!  In fact, we've had the same amount of champions come from the #4 seed, as we have from the #1 seed.

My point in all of this is we don't know crap.  We can give it our best educated guess, but that's all that it is.  Let's settle this on the field.  Every 130 schools should have the opportunity to prove themselves against a team lined up across from them.  They shouldn't have to show anything to anyone else, whether human or computer (because we all know how well that's worked out in the past).  Give all the conference champions an automatic bid.  Take four other at-large teams, to help compensate for "tougher" conference play...and let's play. 

This!