I, Racist

[UKMustangFan]

Why am I not surprised that this thread has turned into a train wreck with no actual productive dialogue?

 

Things are never going to change, they're only going to continue to deteriorate, if we continue down this path.

[Hellbird]

Y'all would really get your panties in a twist if I wrote an opinion piece on white MALE privilege, wouldn't you? :lol2:

 

There's no shame in admitting white people enjoy greater latitude in many arenas than people of color. MANY. The shame should be in refusing to see it exists. The fact you (in a general sense) had to work harder than, let's say your rich friend, to get where you are doesn't negate the fact that for a person of color, they have to work harder than their rich black friends AND most white people to get ahead. Always have.

 

One of the points of the article is that black people identify as a group and take the good and the bad collectively...not individually. What happens to a black person, or what a black person does, is a reflection on the GROUP. White people don't identify as a group. They identify individually. What happens to ANYONE else, is something that happened to "them". And when a white person commits a crime, no blame is placed on white people as a whole and no one tells them to fix their "culture". A white person commits a crime and excuses are levied that separate them farther from the individual.

The point I made is that many, even on here, believe everyone is afforded the so called "White Privilege" as long as they are white. I'm still waiting for anyone to point out the advantage I had over others I grew up with or even work with because I am white and they are black. To say every black person who is succesful had to work harder than everyone else is ridiculous. Some and many yes, but many others haven't period.

 

So again, please someone enlighten me with the privilege I have received that wasn't afforded to my friends who are black.

 

The last paragraph you wrote is true in many aspects and I do agree with a lot of what was said there.

I also believe individuals should be judged as that, not an entire group and I have never done that. Maybe I am more sophisticated in that aspect than those who who look at themselves as one group and not individuals and maybe that is where the problem lies. Some say it portrays an entire group as acting as one and a common goal, others could see it as an entire group not wanting to work on the problems and instead using it as an excuse.

[rockmom]

Were you alive in 1776? I wasn't.

 

Were you alive during the times of the slaves of the Roman Empire? yea me either, and that is why I don't use that as an excuse to why I don't have a PHD or am a millionaire. Maybe some others should do the same.

 

If you can't see the difference and the huge strides made over the past 200+ years in this country alone then there is no discussion to be made because you refuse to do anything but lean on the crutch of oppression from 200 years ago. I haven't ever met a slave although they do exist today in many parts of the world...guess what they are black, white, yellow and red.

 

Soo....you're saying...what? All is utopic? No more work to be done?

 

The passage of time alone doesn't mitigate the effects of oppression.

[Hellbird]

Soo....you're saying...what? All is utopic? No more work to be done?

 

The passage of time alone doesn't mitigate the effects of oppression.

Just the opposite. I am saying look at all the work that HAS been done since then and instead of always and only looking back at the past and saying it's because of slavery over 150 years ago is why I can't get a job today is just an excuse.

 

Do we still need to continue in the direction we have? Yes of course. But we also can't keep using the same excuse when it has no credible argument in today's world.

 

My ancestors were tormented in their homeland of Scottland by the English Rulers, is that why I couldn't go to College today?

 

People need to be more focused on today and how to make things better than to continue to look at the past as an excuse they can't better themselves today. That is my point.

[mcpapa]

You refuse to re-evaluate your own logic. No where do I say there is only one issue. I pointed to racial privledge as a signifigcant issue. You won't acknowledge that it exists. It isn't about agree and disagree. It is about denying what is right in front of your face, regardless of the fact that minorities are telling you that this is a part of the issue. If whites can't accept racial privledge as an issue, then we can't begin to develop a solution to the racial divide in this country.

 

[Hellbird]

I am bowing out of this topic for the time being.

 

Racism exists today and it exists in many races and I wish it would be gone forever but that will never happen for varying reasons. So all I can say is God bless everyone

[LIPTON BASH]

Academia? Broad brush, ya think?

 

I didn't say all of Academia I said Academia who push this concept.

 

The entire premise pushes a false dichotomy.

[B-Ball-fan]

No. The statement in parentheses is stating that blacks don't have the power to use racism to oppress whites like whites have used to oppress blacks. Because whites have this power they don't have to entertain any claims of racism if they don't want to.

 

This thread is the purest example of that. To be completely and totally blunt and honest: White people just don't get it because white people don't have to get it. And if I was white I wouldn't bother to get it either. Not my problem. It wasn't me.

 

The statement in parentheses is used immediately following the line "Or even worse, we're told that we are being racist", which again I may be misunderstanding, but it would seem to insinuate that from that oppressed position, he's not calling it racism.

 

I can't speak for all white people on whether or not the "get it" or not, and I realize that some blacks don't care for it when gays use their experience of oppression as a comparison to them understanding black oppression, but it that respect I do very much have the capacity to "get it".

 

Just as the author was citing that this country's system was white centric so whites don't have to wonder, while blacks would always have to find their place in it, I too as a gay man being raised in a heterocentric world realize that lots of straights can't always "get it' when they are free to be as straight as they want to be and say anything they want, but God forbid a guy talk about his attraction to another guy or people could gasp with disbelief.

 

Or a straight couple show up at party and no one thinks anything of it, but if a gay couple shows up at the same party minds start going to weird places about what exactly these guys do in the bedroom, and who plays the man and who plays the woman?

 

I can certainly understand how a black person might be up to their eyeballs in frustration of the things that they plainly have seen their whole lives, while fully knowing that on many occasions whites don's see it at all.

 

When you do find a white person really willing to have a meaningful discussion with attempts at understanding, it's not going to benefit you one iota if you allow the frustration make you throw up your hands and walk off and consider them ate up with ignorance.

 

Even from your well thought out analysis from years of dissecting it, it would presumptuous to think that only blacks have given it any thought, and no matter what authority you've come to believe that you have on the topic, there's still room for both sides in understanding, because the minute you think that you are completely right, no if's and's or but's, you continue to contribute to the misunderstandings.

 

Lipton Bash seems to have taken a ton of heat with what he has said, and although I see a lot of validity in what his opposition has said, there's still a lot of validity to what he has said, but it seems to be more so his opposition not willing to meet at a common ground or give respect to his analysis which is no doubt NOT coming from a racist ignorant understanding. What he has said is pretty well thought out.

 

If we all don't see it from the exact same angle, it's likely that we're not all coming from the exact same place. Each person's view from their own personal experience is just as valid as anyone's, and because it differs doesn't automatically mean they are a racist.

 

There are plenty of white people who are just as passionate about hoping to one day see the end of racism just as much as there are blacks that do. It's not just a black problem, it's all our problem and it starts with offering, teaching and learning mutual respect.

[B-Ball-fan]

Language alert:

 

[video=youtube;6CmzT4OV-w0]

[spindoc]

So, there is no end then if this premise holds true.

[rockmom]

I think what the author and several here are trying to convey is this:

 

It's NOT that all white people are racist. However, as white people that aren't racist, what do we do when we hear the generalizations leveled at the black community? We often have discussion on BGP about what would change the issues facing the black community. But it's a bit weird, being that we don't live in the same communities, nor do we face the same issues.

 

I've actually HEARD the discussions in Louisville, for instance, relative to the West End. Most white people have a solution, but the words and ideas are thrown around and no real "reform" efforts are put forth my the majority of white people. For the majority of white people, the solution is to move out of the West End. But there are a significant number of good, hardworking people who call the West End home. They love their neighborhoods. They don't want to move. All their family, all their friends, their homes...they're rooted in the West End.

 

White people in Louisville tell visitors "Don't go past 9th Street and you'll be fine" if the visitors plan on visiting downtown. White people don't travel spend money in the West End. There are some great artisans and craftsman who live in the West End. They have to set up shop anywhere other than the West End to make a living.

 

White people are able to avoid the effects of racism because in many cases, it is confined to a geographic boundary. It's easy to deny racism exists if you don't see the effect of decades of racism on a community. The West End was a vibrant, thriving community...then White Flight happened. Not only did people leave their homes and move to the Eastern part of the city/county, but they took, their businesses with them...the same businesses that often employed the people who whites were trying to avoid living next door to.

[Habib]

I didn't say all of Academia I said Academia who push this concept.

 

The entire premise pushes a false dichotomy.

 

How?

 

I'd wager upwards 95% of black people will attest their race evokes prejudices against them ways that go well outside of overt, white supremacists like Dylan Roof, whether it's not getting a call back for a job, neighbors worried about their property value, fear that police view you as a criminal, on and on and on. You have actual human beings in this thread telling you that's their experience with race and yet you continually rebuff them with the claim that this is all made up by liberals and professors. Surely if these people are so wrong about their experiences you would have a better argument than that.

 

I understand what makes people defensive about it. "I'm a decent person, I don't agree with white supremacy, I've never done anything bad to anyone, why am I being lumped in?" But, what sweat is it off your back to engage in a little empathy? Will your worldview shatter if you accept that black people view it as a career strategy to hide their race on their resumes? And if so, what does that say about your worldview?

[LIPTON BASH]

How?

 

I'd wager upwards 95% of black people will attest their race evokes prejudices against them ways that go well outside of overt, white supremacists like Dylan Roof, whether it's not getting a call back for a job, neighbors worried about their property value, fear that police view you as a criminal, on and on and on. You have actual human beings in this thread telling you that's their experience with race and yet you continually rebuff them with the claim that this is all made up by liberals and professors. Surely if these people are so wrong about their experiences you would have a better argument than that.

 

I understand what makes people defensive about it. "I'm a decent person, I don't agree with white supremacy, I've never done anything bad to anyone, why am I being lumped in?" But, what sweat is it off your back to engage in a little empathy? Will your worldview shatter if you accept that black people view it as a career strategy to hide their race on their resumes? And if so, what does that say about your worldview?

 

The concept of white privilege and how it is taught in our universities and portrayed in the media is what I have issue with.

 

It seems many of you can't separate two different concepts racism and white privilege. Racism exists but it does not mean every white child is born into some sort of privilege based on solely on the color of his skin.

 

Empathy is great and I can have it for any struggle for people of any race or gender.

 

But the concept of white privilege is a concept not based in empathy but guilt , accusations.

 

What a perfect concept you either agree with me or you are racist or naive. Such a false dichotomy and it's the only concept it's allowed.

[doomer]

To understand, you have to know that Black people think in terms of Black people. I think this is an issue which causes distrust as it relates to particularly some issues below.

 

Black people think in terms of we because we live in a society where the social and political structures interact with us as Black people. Logical outcome of the first point.

 

The system was made for White people, so White people don't have to think about living in it. The system was made for individuals. There have been further improvements to assure this is the case.

 

People are dying because we are supporting a racist system that justifies White people killing Black people. This is not useful thinking but a by product of his first points!

 

White people are good as a whole, and only act badly as individuals. The same would/could be said of all other groups, but the group-think/act mentality mentioned above cause mis-trust.

 

I will stop there. He says a number of interesting things, and maybe at the end of the day, constructive, if he is willing to consider how his views can undermine progress.

[Habib]

The concept of white privilege and how it is taught in our universities and portrayed in the media is what I have issue with.

 

It seems many of you can't separate two different concepts racism and white privilege. Racism exists but it does not mean every white child is born into some sort of privilege based on solely on the color of his skin.

 

Empathy is great and I can have it for any struggle for people of any race or gender.

 

But the concept of white privilege is a concept not based in empathy but guilt , accusations.

 

What a perfect concept you either agree with me or you are racist or naive. Such a false dichotomy and it's the only concept it's allowed.

 

"White privilege," or whatever else you want to term it, simply means what I described in my last post: There are a lot of experiences black people have where they feel their race evoked some sort of prejudice and those are experiences that white people don't often have.

 

I think it leads to a lot of the mentality expressed here. "Real racism is bad, but we live in a colorblind country so people need to quit complaining about race," or what rockmom and PP92 articulated above in that I don't have to worry that people fear if I (or my kids) have been corrupted by "a violent white culture."