Again, this is a part of the problem. Reading up on racial privledge doesn't make you an expert one way or the other. I am a black man in this country. I am telling you about my experiences. I am telling you that I believe that racial privilege exists. You are telling me that the concept is beneath you. You are telling me that you don't value my perspective above your own. You won't even consider investigating and attempting to understand my perspective.

 

You want me to read up on racial privledge? I am a black man in this country. I don't have to read about it, dude. I have lived it and experienced it first hand.

 

I'm talking about the concept of white privilege which was derived by sociology professors .

 

I'm sure you've experienced racism and I wouldn't belittle that. But it is a different from the societal concept of white privilege .

 

Your very post is why I have a problem with academia and it's concept of white privilege. It blurs the line of real racism.

Which is the essence of everyone finding your opinion extreme. Everyone who hasn't come to your side just hasn't thought it through or hasn't read enough.

 

Think about that logic in the context of the article that is the subject of this post. The entire concept of racial privilege isn't a card to a white's only club, but sometimes things happen that it might take a different perspective to pick up on. Again, argue the degree of its importance all you want. Argue affirmative action has led to some sort of black privilege. Change the word privilege to something else, but don't pretend like it doesn't ever exist.

 

You do realize the problem with your point and the conversation in general is calling my point extreme ?

You do realize the problem with your point and the conversation in general is calling my point extreme ?

 

I might be wrong, but your point is that there is no privilege. It's impossible to be any more extreme on that side of the spectrum.

 

For a bit you were trying to argue that there are other factors that affect blacks. There's a lot of merit to that, but you came out guns blazing, white privilege doesn't exist and anyone who thinks so suffers from liberal guilt.

 

While yeah, I find your opinion extreme, the problem isn't so much its content, but the fact that you are disagreeing with the premise of the article by literally engaging in what the author describes. On top of that by not agreeing with you, I must not be well-read or incapable of an intellectual discussion.

I think this is a very, very important message in the article.

What they are affected by are attacks on their own character. To my aunt, the suggestion that "people in The North are racist" is an attack on her as a racist. She is unable to differentiate her participation within a racist system (upwardly mobile, not racially profiled, able to move to White suburbs, etc.) from an accusation that she, individually, is a racist. Without being able to make that differentiation, White people in general decide to vigorously defend their own personal non-racism, or point out that it doesn't exist because they don't see it.

Is being born the wrong color "fair"???

Well, no. And I don't know that it's necessarily the right way to look at it.

 

And I don't think it's fair that the author makes an argument that all white people have "upward mobility" either.

 

Like I said though, there is a ton of truth in the article.

I found the article interesting and thought provoking on many levels. I fully understand his position is some respects, and applaud him for his effort at detailed dissection to drive some of the points that often get overlooked, or are rarely discussed.

 

There is much validity in what he has delivered.

 

With that said at times while reading I was uneasy with portions that I felt fell too much into generalities.

 

While he has obviously put much thought into analyzing the topic, and maybe even more so than the average person, still his position is his specific angle and while often concrete, is still not complete, perfect or infallible.

 

I'm not too sure that anyone is truly capable of a position that is, for in attempting to do so, we'll instantly find ourselves back to generalities while in reality the topic might just be way too complex for anyone to nail full stop.

 

Although it might not sum things up to completion, but what Lipton Bash has been driving home about socioeconomics and privilege is as equally a valid point as any offered.

 

I've lived in Covington my whole life and can vividly see various divisions of classes that exist not by color, but by wealth or lack there of.

 

Super low income whites are no more privileged than super low income blacks.

 

The real main factor that stands out with folks who lack wealth is their outward character where upbringing has an extreme bearing on this.

 

I'm not at all saying that all low income people lack a cooperative civilized character, but whether they do or they don't, whites or blacks can easily be judged by others, and sometimes be denied certain opportunities merely by quick assessment of their character or outward appearance.

 

One glaring misconception that he offered in the article which weakened his credibility for me to some degree was when he said:

 

"The Angry Black person invalidates any arguments about racism because they are "just being overly sensitive," or "too emotional," or- playing the race card. Or even worse, we're told that we are being racist (Does any intelligent person actually believe a systematically oppressed demographic has the ability to oppress those in power?)"

 

How I read this statement, and I could be sorely mistaking his point here, is that those who are oppressed cannot also be racists.

 

If that indeed is what he meant here, then I completely disagree with that.

 

Not saying that white children aren't, but many, (not all), black children being raised in low income neighborhoods are ingrained by siblings, family, and communities way before they can think for themselves that the white man is the enemy and the very reason for their shortcomings. They can't discern for themselves the various multitudes of other factors that puts them by no choice in their social situation, however the generalization and belief system they grow up with takes precedent over all explanations as it's any easy blanket statement to wrap their minds around, and and easy go to if in need of excuses.

 

As kids under these circumstances grow into teens, groups of friends will continue to reinforce these ideals amongst themselves, and at this tender age when some become more rebellious, this over simplification can often times be what fuels their anger, or give justification to ignore established laws of the land.

 

They eventually have children of their own and the whole process starts all over again leading to a perpetual continuation of a pervading attitude that is deeply rooted.

 

No doubt white kids can have an equal amount of misguided learning in their development from prejudice parents and family members, and in no way am I'm suggesting to downplay this ever present perpetual continuation of a pervading attitude that is deeply rooted, but just as the author of the article suggested that black people consider themselves "We", while white folks don't so much share is such a "We White People" perception, then the ingraining that I'm suggesting here amongst low income blacks becomes more focused in a sense of a community mindset.

 

If would be completely unfair to suggest that all low income blacks become prejudice as there are numerous other factors that can help prevent this such as parental guidance that makes straightforward efforts to break the chain, as well as people of faith in search of a better understanding and more peaceful solutions.

 

That's my two cents, and admittedly like I suggested earlier, in no way the entire picture, for I believe that that eludes all of us.

 

I suppose by what I have said some could consider me a racist, but I personally don't consider myself one. I'm more inclined to accept or not accept people related to their character and not by the color of their skin.

 

As a child growing up in Covington, I experienced being ganged up on by both groups of white kids and black kids who made a point of leaving me bruised and bloody mostly because my mother trained me to appear clean cut with combed hair, or because I attended a Catholic grade school that required that I wear a button down shirt and a tie on a daily basis. So I've had enough experiences to develop a distaste for various types regardless of color. I try to see it for what it was, but being human, I can't completely escape feelings of resentment when I reflect back on it. When you're the victim of unfounded hatred, it's hard not to develop an attitude, but I must admit that I think that I've done well with it and try to understand it for what it was.

 

Throughout my life I've had friends or associates that were from every race imaginable and with whom I very much enjoyed their presence in my life. No matter from what corner of the globe they may have been from I always enjoyed them exposing me to their experience, while I shared with them mine. Without being ingrained with tons of prejudice, at the end of the day we are all just humans who experience very similar hopes, dreams, fears, and desires for love and acceptance.

And to be clear I have plenty of guilt built up for not pushing harder on the exact topics this article brings to perfect light. Given the things I have lived and experienced first and I should NEVER stop shouting about the racial divide in this country fostered and protected by those that have nothing more to say than "Wasn't me".

 

So I'll say it now very clear so my position is concrete. "Wasn't me" IS THE PROBLEM...

 

Why is "Wasn't me" the problem? Seriously, that sounds like such a cop out from the politically correct. I'm with Lipton on this one.

 

So you want to feel like someone who needs to carry the flag to do away with something you think is prevalent in today's society, I applaud you for it, but at the same time don't act as if everyone who wasn't born black is at fault and have created a racial divide in this country because that is just not true.

 

There are many reasons why the racial tension is what it is today and just as much blame can be pointed to some of those who feel they are the victims of racism because they want to use that as their crutch.

 

Sorry, I'm not the reason, the cause or the problem. If you feel you are then you need to take care of that, just don't ever throw out the racism blanket to cover everyone who isn't African american as the reason it exists because there are a lot more Caucasians who treat everyone as equals no matter what their skin color than those who don't in my day to day association with everyone I come across.

Did you hear about what that kid did in Charleston? He didn't shoot those people because they were poor. He didn't go to a historically poor people's church and kill nine people. The hate groups in our country don't exist to persecute poor people.

 

Dismissing the existence of racial privilege is dismissing that racism exists in this country, period. Using the excuse that racial issues can be conquered by looking exclusively at economic factors is a sorely lacking perspective, IMO.

I don't remember reading anywhere on here stating the Charleston Masacre wasn't carried out by a racist maniac. I also didn't read where Lipton ever stated there aren't any racist around today and that it wasn't a problem. What Lipton has said over and over again is just because racism exist today doesn't make EVERYONE who isn't black a racist.

 

The guilt complex many try to throw on everyone else is as big of a problem as anything else because it keeps the problem from ever being constructively looked at and hopefully corrected.

 

When people make blanket accusations to cover an entire population, then there will never be anything constructively done to alleviate the problem that was at the initial topic in the first place. Instead it puts everyone in a defensive mode instead of a problem solving mode. Was every German a Nazi? well if we went along the way of thinking the gametime is talking about the answer is yes. The fact of the matter is the true answer is no. Is every white person a racist? According to gametime yes, the truth is no.

I don't remember reading anywhere on here stating the Charleston Masacre wasn't carried out by a racist maniac. I also didn't read where Lipton ever stated there aren't any racist around today and that it wasn't a problem. What Lipton has said over and over again is just because racism exist today doesn't make EVERYONE who isn't black a racist.

 

The guilt complex many try to throw on everyone else is as big of a problem as anything else because it keeps the problem from ever being constructively looked at and hopefully corrected.

 

When people make blanket accusations to cover an entire population, then there will never be anything constructively done to alleviate the problem that was at the initial topic in the first place. Instead it puts everyone in a defensive mode instead of a problem solving mode. Was every German a Nazi? well if we went along the way of thinking the gametime is talking about the answer is yes. The fact of the matter is the true answer is no. Is every white person a racist? According to gametime yes, the truth is no.

 

Don't ever put words in my mouth. You taking my point and spinning it out of context to prove "Wasn't me" says it all...

I think this is a very, very important message in the article.

 

Again another flaw in the article. If your not racist you participate in acts that are racist.

 

Again one of his assumptions in this quote requires all white people to have the means to accomplish it. Which a majority don't .

If I was white I wouldn't give a damn about racism nor would I think it existed either.

 

One glaring misconception that he offered in the article which weakened his credibility for me to some degree was when he said:

 

"The Angry Black person invalidates any arguments about racism because they are "just being overly sensitive," or "too emotional," or- playing the race card. Or even worse, we're told that we are being racist (Does any intelligent person actually believe a systematically oppressed demographic has the ability to oppress those in power?)"

 

How I read this statement, and I could be sorely mistaking his point here, is that those who are oppressed cannot also be racists.

 

If that indeed is what he meant here, then I completely disagree with that.

and acceptance.

 

No. The statement in parentheses is stating that blacks don't have the power to use racism to oppress whites like whites have used to oppress blacks. Because whites have this power they don't have to entertain any claims of racism if they don't want to.

 

This thread is the purest example of that. To be completely and totally blunt and honest: White people just don't get it because white people don't have to get it. And if I was white I wouldn't bother to get it either. Not my problem. It wasn't me.

Don't ever put words in my mouth. You taking my point and spinning it out of context to prove "Wasn't me" says it all...

you and your repeating the "Wasn't Me " Montra says it all...

 

You continue to quote that phrase as if every single white person in America is racist and them anbyone who claims they aren't really means they are. That is what I get out of your posts. OR am I wrong and that if someone says it "Wasn't Me" then they are fine and are correct in that they aren't racist nor do they add fuel to the racism fire? Please explain it if I'm wrong. Please explain what you mean when you continue to look down on anyone who says "It wasn't me"

No. The statement in parentheses is stating that blacks don't have the power to use racism to oppress whites like whites have used to oppress blacks. Because whites have this power they don't have to entertain any claims of racism if they don't want to.

 

This thread is the purest example of that. To be completely and totally blunt and honest: White people just don't get it because white people don't have to get it. And if I was white I wouldn't bother to get it either. Not my problem.

Let me know what power I actually have that you don't have. I'm still waiting to wake up on Christmas day to open that gift full of "White Power" and "White Privilege" Also I would love to see where I have ever oppressed blacks.

 

The reason Racism will always be a part of our vocabulary is because there are too many people that will always use the color of their skin as an excuse to why they have failed in life and blame others for holding them down instead of holding themselves accountable for their failings.

Is there racism? YES!!!! Is there racism in the extent that many claim their is, nope. Racism is used as a crutch too many times so some don't have to look at themselves in the mirror and see the real reason they have failed.

If I was white I wouldn't give a damn about racism nor would I think it existed either.

 

There is a difference between racism and white privilege. I would never say racism doesn't exist.