TheMan gives the simple truth about Trinity (and St. X)

[brudawg]

You just made my point, this is high school football, not college.

[yoda1]

Originally posted by brudawg

You just made my point, this is high school football, not college.

 

Brudawg, some people just can not tell the difference. :thumb:

[SportsGuy41017]

Originally posted by brudawg

I just think it is odd that a kid from Indiana can play for a team in Louisville!

 

Last time I checked this is still at least a semi free country, and if a parent from Indiana wants to send their kid to a KY school that is their choice, and they should be allowed to participate in any school activity.... Several people from the N.KY area send their kids to schools in Cincy, I see no reason why KY school cannot let kids from out of state in...

[Getslow]

I have stayed away from this thread for as long as I could. I can't anymore.

 

Trinity has nearly 1300 students. What's your point? What would you have us do? Until such time when someone has an idea of how we as Trinity and St. Xavier should be dealt with, I suggest you bite your tongues. This entire arguement has been nothing but mindless droning and statements of incomplete or totally untrue facts from BOTH sides. As much as I hate using this phrase, because it is throw around with no meaning at all on this website...here are the facts.

 

Trinity and St. Xavier are both private, parochial institutions that have very large all-male student populations. Students from anywhere may attend either school and many do just that (I know of football players from Shelby County, Academic Team members from Bullitt County, and Cross Country runners from Indiana). Neither school makes any apologies for this, nor should they. As long as the school provides no major incentive for those students to attend, other than those provided by the inherent nature of the school. Bottom line on that...people come to Trinity or St. X because of what they are and what they are is exactly the reason people want to come to those schools.

 

Since this thread is basically useless anyway, I will provide my useless solution.

 

I never understood why there were so many high schools. For example, why does East Jefferson County have both Eastern and Ballard? Let's solve this problem and combine them. Put all the men at Ballard and all the women at Eastern. If nothing else, Ballard is now guaranteed the state title in Basketball every year and with the success of the two recently, I am banking on an annual title in baseball for the two as well. Eastern would would leave Sacred Heart and Assumption in their dust as they rolled through Volleyball and Basketball each year. The two schools will both be larger than St. Xavier.

 

Or how about this one (I like it better)? Let's close Trinity, St. X, Assumption and Sacred Heart tomorrow, forcing all the students to quickly find a spot in Jefferson County's already crowded public school system. JCPS will have no idea what to do with the new students. Schools will become dangerously overcrowded and the discontent among students leads to frequent outbreaks of violence. Education in these now horrid institutions becomes almost nonexistent. As such, the dropout rate increases, making Jefferson County one of the worst school systems in the country, plunging the county into economic chaos as businesses, scared for the future of their prospective employees levels of education.

 

Think those sound ridiculous? Look at some of your own responses to this thread and decide how great yours were...

[Rocks_00]

I still don't think that any one has fully answered the St. X/Trinity difference compared with the difference between Trinity and other schools.

 

As for the entire purpose of this thread, I really don't see its point. As I posted earlier Trinity does have an advantage because of numbers, so what. That is not an unfair advantage, if it were they would not be in the KHSAA. I believe it was ballcoach that said it best in his post. These other teams should stop making excuses and work hard to get the job done. If a Trinity or X beats you it's because they are better, and not just because they are bigger. They also have a better traqdition, better coaches, better facilities, and better fan and alumni support.

[SuperShamrocks]

Originally posted by hsfbisthebest

ITS STILL 11 on 11...NOT 150 on 50

 

If only that were true.

Because of the numbers difference, Trinty plays very few both ways. The smaller 4A schools have to play many more both ways and their # 2's are much weaker - also because of the #'s.

If you really think it is 11 on 11, then you don't know much about 4A football. [/b]

Now I dont know anything about 4-A football. Well answer this then....why did Trinity win state in 2001 with 3 people playing both ways...and finish runner up in 2000 with 6 people playing both ways...

I agree with what a poster said earlier....

QUIT COMPLAINING AND JUST GET BETTER

[westsider]

Wanna level the playing field? Build another Catholic school on the East End to siphon some of the students away from St. X and Trinity ... it might take a few years, but the new school would eventually put a dent in the Tigers and Shamrocks.

[87Bird]

Originally posted by SuperShamrocks

Now I dont know anything about 4-A football. Well answer this then....why did Trinity win state in 2001 with 3 people playing both ways...and finish runner up in 2000 with 6 people playing both ways...

I agree with what a poster said earlier....

QUIT COMPLAINING AND JUST GET BETTER

 

Those days are over. Once coach Beatty got his system in place, I don't think you'll see anymore 2-way players. Look at the pattern:

 

2000--6 people

2001--3 people

2002--0 people

 

It only took him three years to eliminate the need for 2-way players.

 

I'm not complaining. I'm merely trying debate with Trinity fans(except Trinity Alum, he understands!) that there are several reasons that go into why the Rocks are "better". One of those factors is the numbers Trinity draws from. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I can't believe Trinity Alum in the only Trinity fan on this board that will admit that????

[TheMan]

Originally posted by Rocks_00

As for the entire purpose of this thread, I really don't see its point.

 

This is the purpose...

 

Originally posted by Rocks_00

If a Trinity or X beats you it's because they are better, and not just because they are bigger.

 

You can't seperate these two.

 

Is Trinity better - yes.

 

Are they better because they are bigger - yes.

[Trinity alum]

Yoda asked a question about scholarships. Let me see if I can answer. First, Trinity awards academic scholarships. They are awarded based on the rusults of the placement test and performance in school. Athletics play NO part in determining Trinity and Steinhauser scholarship winners. Trinity also offers need based financial aid. Anyone is welcome to apply. Awards are based on need, not athletic ability. The question was "What public school can compete with scholarships?" The answer, of course, is that every student in a public school is on a taxpayer financed financial aid program.

[DRILLSARGE]

The problem is so much as the numbers... Its the quality of those numbers.. Athletes coming to the school to be athletes. Private schools will usually have better parenting and kids just for the mere fact there will be two parents and they have a pretty descent income. That allows you to be a better coach because instead of teaching discipline as a new concept you are just enforcing it. You can get more detailed and sophisticated in what you teach the kids because again they are probably going to be more motivated and able to learn a more complicated system.

 

I do see where Coaching and other things are very important. I agree with the fact that its not just the numbers but you rock and x fans need to agree that it is an important factor...

[austinman1]

Since you are dead set not to agree scholarships given and financial aid given to a student at a private isn't an advantage over a student a public school (because all public school students are on tax payer aid), let me posed this to you.

 

Can I take my tax payer aided money and recruit a fine academic student to go to my school? Can I go to Shelby, Bullitt, Hardin, Oldham, Indiana? Not in my County!

 

If anything, the Catholic schools have the BIggest advantage over others in the state because they can say, ACADEMICS is our selling point. We can recruit or our school will not surive. How can KHSAA dispute that?

[shooter]

Originally posted by SportsGuy41017

Last time I checked this is still at least a semi free country, and if a parent from Indiana wants to send their kid to a KY school that is their choice, and they should be allowed to participate in any school activity.... Several people from the N.KY area send their kids to schools in Cincy, I see no reason why KY school cannot let kids from out of state in...

 

If you live in NKy and go to an Ohio school are you allowed to play sports? In the mid-seventies when the Moeller program was at it's zenith, every year there were a few players who played and contributed to Moeller's success from NKY. I could be wrong but I thought that the Ohio HS athletic association passed a rule that said to play in Ohio you had to live in Ohio. I even thought the rule was nicknamed "the Moeller rule". Did they do away with this rule or was it a rule that was talked about and never passed?

 

Now a few sidepoints (if I am not imaging things ).

 

1. I have always felt that you can trace CovCath's success in football to the arrival of Lynn Ray and the institution of the "Moeller rule". Most of the NKY players who played for Moeller would have played for CovCath.

 

2. You can trace Moeller's decent from the very best HS football program in the country to just one of the best in the Cincy area to rule changes by both the Ohio athletic assosciation and the archdiocese of Cincinnati which put limits on from where Moeller could draw players. The rise of Cin St. X is also related to these rule changes.

 

3. The Cleveland archdiocese has not put the same limitations on their schools and that is one of the reasons St I has become the preeminent HS program in Ohio replacing Moeller.

[Oldbird]

Shooter: I remember the rule their was a big man (basketball) named Don Turney (sp.) who I believe was one of the first impacted by the rule.

 

However, it seems like their was a kid from Ft. Thomas who was either on the swimming or diving team for St. X, but I couldn't swear to it.

[PepRock01]

I've been avoiding this thread for as long as I can but I now am going to throw in my 2 cents worth.

 

Does Trinity have an advantage because of numbers? Yes we do as does St. X and Assumption and Sacred Heart.

 

Does Trinity Recruit? Yes we do, we send students along with Roger Burkman to Catholic grade schools to try and entice students to go to Trinity, all Catholic schools do this. They only go to Catholic grade schools as well, so they are not recruiting kids from public schools. As far as running our ads on TV, I do recall JCPS running ads promoting public schools not any particular school, just the public schools in general.

 

Why has this become such an issue, is it because we have won back to back state titles in football? Then why are we not saying the same thing about St.X in soccer or swimming, or Assumption in volleyball? Why is it that Trinity is the scapegoat here?

 

Yes numbers make a big difference in a sport like football, but when you get the the level of 4A, the difference is not as big as it would be between classes. Yes Trinity has more guys to choose from, but they don't all have to go out for football. They choose to do so out of their own free will. Why is that? That is where tradition, and coaching come into play. If a kid knows that his school's football team has an amazing tradition he is more likely to want to be a part of it than if his school has a less than enticing tradition. So yes Trinity's size is an advantage, but our size would be meaningless without our coaching or our tradition.