Austinman...

 

Trinity, like all schools in Jefferson County, recruits students. With open enrollment they have to.

 

Trinity has a finincial aid program in place to help students with finincial need. So do public schools, it's called the free lunch program. Regardless of what the belief may be athletics have absolutely nothing to do with who gets aid.

 

And I honestly believe that if Trinity did not have the tradition of success that it has these factors would not make a difference. It's a whole lot easier to make a teenager give up a large part of his time when he knows there is a very good chance he will compete for a state championship.

 

You have never, ever heard me say that the numbers at Trinity don't help, what I said that it was only one factor of many.

Im gonna flip the whole thing on TheMan...if anyone is at a DISADVANTAGE...its private schools. Reason is simple. Im not sure of the number...but it is around $6000 a year to attend either Trinity or X. So when you are a solid athlete with a chance to go to college...sure..you'd want to go to Trinity or X...but you cannot afford it...so where do ya go...Male...Manual...Ballard..Eastern. I mean...lets not forget..the last time a private school athlete won Mr. Football was I believe...1988....heck...Male has had 2 of the last 3. The fact is that MORE college athletic scholarships are given to public school athletes....with a very few being given to private school athletes. There is a considerable difference between the high profile athletes in public and private schools. Now....with that being said, where is the advantage. The fact is simple...Trinity and St.X are founded on TEAM ball...De La Salle is the same way, a private school...strong tradition...very few stand out athletes....but a strong team like atmosphere. So END the rubbish of the "numbers" advantage...because they have to PAY to go to Trinity...that puts trinity at a DISADVANTAGE.

Originally posted by yoda1

Bert, I have the utmost respect for the private school system and if I had a child, I would have enrolled them in the Catholic school system even if I had to take on a second job. But it would not be for the reasons we have addressed here. Do I think their school system has better teachers or coaches? Heck, no. But there are definite advantages.

I cannot see how you can reach the socially and economically disadvantaged student if your numbers are correct. Do not take me wrong here. I know that you have to support your system in order to keep it running. And that takes al ot of money to keep up the standards you have set for yourselves.

Bert, I simply feel that the private schools, no matter the size, have a distinct advantage if they are able to offer scholarships to their students in order to reach more kids. If they were to drop the scholarships, would there be any less money coming in to the system? I do not think so. I would venture to say that there would be a significant drop in their enrollment if they were to stop offering scholarships. And with that drop, would their sports programs be as strong? I would venture to say not.

The sports programs mean a lot to a school system because it is a drawing card for them. Yes, we are going to say that academics come first, and they should. But let us not fool ourselves by saying sports are secondary. If it were so, we would not be having this debate. If sports were secondary, would you be drawing 30,000+ fans to the St. X/Trinity football game each year?

 

You have to remember that public schools give FULL scolarships to ALL of the students from tax dollers. If any private school dropped the financial aid that is given, it would be a serious blow and might even led to the eventual shut down of the school.

 

As for the aid that is given, it is not enough in some cases. Trinity does have a work study program to help students earn some extra money for their tuition.

 

I will admit that the numbers are an advantage, but not the biggest. The biggest advantages at Trinity are the coaches, the facilities and the 14 previous State Titles. Arguable Trinity's best stretch in football, approx. '87-'91, came during a time when enrollment had slumped and there was talk of going coed to resolve the problem.

 

I believe CentreRocks brought up a point earlier that no one has addressed. The enrollment gap between X and Trinity is larger than that of Trinity and about 15 other 4A schools. Why do you not here Trinity fans complaining about this when X wins?

 

Another question, would we even be having this discussion if Trinity didn't win State the past two years.

Originally posted by Gone

austinman1 says,

2. The school has to recruit to stay alive!

3. The school offers financial assistance to students/athletes!

 

Trinity does not "recruit." The name Trinity, the tradition of the school does all the recruiting that is needed. Trinity offers financial assistance to all students who qualify for it, athlete or not. The athletes do not recieve preferential treatment at Trinity. They are dealt with just like every other student. When it comes down to it, thats what they really are, students.

 

Are you saying, no one from the football staff is evaluating talent at the middle school level in Louisville's youth football leagues? Including the catholic leagues?

 

There is no way Trinity or any private school would admit encouraging a young person to come to its school and to suggest if you can't afford it there are ways the institution can help with tution.

 

It seems that everytime this thread comes up, people just say the same things over and over again. Just read the previous threads and stop beating a horse that has been dead for a long time.

Originally posted by RockSolid

In basketball Oak Hill Academy has only 300 kids in thier school, but some how they are one of the best teams in the nation, how could that be if numbers matter so much? :confused:

 

You really don't won't to open up that can of worms.

Originally posted by Gone

Trinity does not "recruit."

 

Really? What is the intention of those ads running on WHAS?

My wife pointed out a theory last night that may explain another reason private schools do better in athletics.....KERA. Since its inception, kids have been taught not to concern themselves with details and reasoning, but to perform. If I'm not mistaken, private schools have not abandoned the practices they've used for years to TEACH, not graduate students.

 

I will have to think on this more, but, at first glance, I think she may have a point.

Trinity's success predates KERA. Find another whipping boy. On the question of financial aid, NO NO NO, we will not give up offering financial aid. To do so would turn Trinity into a haven for only the upper middle class. That is exactly the wrong thing to do. A diverse student population is important.

Originally posted by SuperShamrocks

So END the rubbish of the "numbers" advantage...because they have to PAY to go to Trinity...that puts trinity at a DISADVANTAGE.

 

It's hard to believe anyone would claim that a much larger enrollment isn't an advantage in a sport like football. The simple fact is that, all other things (coaching, alumni support, facilities, tradition) being equal, having a bigger pool of students means more raw material from which to build a team.

 

If someone dealt you five cards and dealt themselves ten cards, who do you think could consistently put together a better poker hand?

 

You can deny that enrollment is an advantage until you're blue in the face, but nearly every state athletic association uses a class system based on enrollment. I guess they're all wrong.

 

No one is saying that numbers alone account for Trinity and St X's success. They both have great programs, great coaching, support, tradition, etc. But denying that having between 30-100% more kids is an advantage is ridiculous.

I agree numbers are an advantage. I also agree with the statement that without coaching, tradition, and support by parents/alumni the numbers advantage becomes moot.

 

The statement regarding coaching stated earlier I disagree with. I don't believe that Trinity's coaches are superior and could win at ANY program. I do think they're really GOOD coaches. Sometimes a group of players just come along and make their coaches look like geniuses. I don't think the coaches are any better than those at Boyle, Mayfield, Highlands, Male, etc.. Obviously, schools like the ones I mentioned do have an advantage with attracting the better coaches, though. Those schools' respective boosters will create all kinds of incentives to attract coaching talent in addition to having a support/tradition system already in place. None of this is wrong, it just reflects the desire of community to have a championship caliber program.

 

The ultimate answer to "why are they so good?" is fairly obvious to me, at least. It's a combination of ALL the ingredients, just like in cooking. It takes everything in the right combination: volume of quality athletes (the "numbers"), fan support, coaching, leadership, devotion of the players, etc.

 

Maybe we can all agree to that?

Originally posted by SuperShamrocks

Im gonna flip the whole thing on TheMan...if anyone is at a DISADVANTAGE...its private schools. Reason is simple. Im not sure of the number...but it is around $6000 a year to attend either Trinity or X. So when you are a solid athlete with a chance to go to college...sure..you'd want to go to Trinity or X...but you cannot afford it...so where do ya go...Male...Manual...Ballard..Eastern.

 

Reminds me of the old Ghostbusters Song:

 

When your a star on the field

and you got no dough

Where you gonna go

 

Male High School

 

If you want to be seen

and you got no green

who you gonna be

 

a Ballard Bruin

 

 

Do you realize how insulting your comments are towards people who attend or went to public school? No wonder they get a measure of joy out of pounding you in basketball.

 

Not to mention the facts don't even support what you are saying. It sounds like you are trying to say that finanical burden prevents many top athletes from attending Trinity. From an outsiders (probably shock many of you that TheMan is not connected with Trinity ) point of view it doesn't appear that Trinity is having much trouble finding top athletes who are willing to pay the price: Brohm, McBroom, May, Thiry, etc.

 

Make no mistake TheMan doesn't care where a kid goes to school. TheMan doesn't care why a kid chooses to go there. TheMan doesn't want Trinity, X, or anyone else to have to play in their own "private league" (what fun would that be).

 

TheMan only wants to say that day one before any weights are lifted, before any coaches are hired, before a pad is strapped on, before a schedule is put together, before a single play is contemplated, Trinity (and X) have an advantage that will allow them to beat probably 85% (if not more, maybe many more) of the teams in this state. This is a bit hard to swallow for some Trinity fans, because they want to believe that they win solely because of tradition, work ethic, coaches, heart, community support, etc., however, just because it is a little hard to swallow doesn't make it any less true.

Originally posted by TheMan

probably shock many of you that TheMan is not connected with Trinity

 

I think there are some people out here who would like to tell you what they think you're connected to.

I hope everyone has had a chance to drive down Shelbyville Road and see the new "BACK TO BACK" flag hanging at Trinity. I wonder if the flag will say "BACK TO BACK TO BACK" or "THREEPEAT" next year?

Originally posted by TheMan

 

Do you realize how insulting your comments are towards people who attend or went to public school? No wonder they get a measure of joy out of pounding you in basketball.

.

 

There is nothing I hate more than someone who talks about themselves in third person.:lol:

 

Last time I checked it took Mr Basketball and his bulldogs a last second shot to beat Trinity.

 

And the week before that it took another Mr Basketball (the guy who should get it in my mind not that what i think matters) and his Eastern Eagles a last second shot to beat Trinity. Trinity isnt getting pounded anymore. Just like the state game in football, a break here or there and Trinity is 3-0 with wins over eastern and male.

 

 

 

Trinity's coaches have won everywhere they went. This isnt the first taste of victories these guys have had. How many other coaches publish books on how to run O? How many other go over to other nations and practically introduce football to them? How many other staffs send the scouts to games to get a detailed report on who they are playing the next week (many schools have gotten away from this)? You guys have to keep in mind, all of the coaches and teachers at Trinity, could be making about $10,000 (not to mention a retirement plan) more at a public school. So obvioulsy they are at Trinity for a reason, if they are willing to give up that much money to be there at Trinity. The list goes on and on but most of the other great coaches you guys have mentioned (and they really are) all applied for the Trinity job when it came open...wonder why?

 

 

I think the numbers thing is an advantage but not an unfair one. IT does not ONLY come from having more boys in the school, but more from having a greater desire in the school for football. A lot of the schools do not have the same love for the football program and as a result dont have the kids going out for football. They (im talking about the bottom 20-40 kids) dont want to put in the time, effort and dedication it takes to play football, like they do at Trinity and X. That is the difference from having 60 kids on your team and 100 at Trinity

To The Man, As I've said earlier, I think that Trinity has many advantages. We have to have advantages because we have to convince the marketplace that it is worth $6,500 a year to attend Trinity instead of a public school for free. People will fall into three categories - those that don't feel it is worth the extra money and choose to attend the puplic schools; those that feel it is worth the money and can afford to pay; and those who feel it is worth the money but can't afford it. The goal of the financial aid program is to make the third group as small as possible. Obviously this applies to any private school, not just Trinity. You have pointed out that being larger is an advantage. (I agree.)You haven't said whether you believe the advantage is unfair or requires a remedy.