TheMan gives the simple truth about Trinity (and St. X)

[KROCK]

Football vs Basketball

 

I really wish the "numbers" thing worked, but it doesn't.

 

It all goes back to coaching. Given the above, we do have a new coach @ Trinity that may make some progress in basketball.

 

Period. End of discussion.

 

TheMan & Austin can throw their logic in the trash can.

[TheMan]

Originally posted by KROCK

TheMan & Austin can throw their logic in the trash can.

 

Good point, you would never want such things as facts, reasoning, and gasp.... logic to enter into a discussion.

 

Along that same line we have this gem from SS:

 

Originally posted by SuperShamrocks

When Trinity won thier first state title...they had only 300 or so in the school...

 

How do you think they would have fared against Male this year if the schol still had 300? I guess they might have won depending on who the 300 were.

 

Guys, there is nothing wrong with having an advantage. Many schools have advantages including such things as financial resources, community/parental support, feeder program, coaches, geographical proximity, etc. It just so happens that one of Trinity's biggest advantages is it's huge student population.

[Sports Fanatic]

Originally posted by austinman1

He has touched on a subject that the Catholic schools hate to discuss. There is an advantage PERIOD. Numbers are important and the ability to recruit (for academic purposes only) and offer financial help to those interested (for academic purposes only).

St.X may not have as many football state championships, but check the other sports. If I am not mistaken, St.X basically wins the overall state championship of all sports every year. If my memory serves me correct, ST.X won the Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Track and Field, Cross Country, Swimming, and maybe wrestling last year. This is not uncommon for St.X. Now is this because they have the best athletes, coaches or is it numbers and recruiting? I know what I think.

Not to take away anything from their coaches, but they would not be as successfull if they were in a normal situation. Beatty at Shawnee, Bullitt Central, or Atherton? Would you here all that about him? He has my respect because I have seen up close how his team execute, but I am very understanding of the situation he is in.

 

You are a coach at a public school correct? How much do the members of your football team pay in tuition to go to your school? How much do they pay for their text books? How much do they pay for transportation to and from school? Is it not true that every student at the school you coach at is on a full tuition scholarship subsidised by tax payer dollars? Does not that same tax money pay the salaries of your teachers and coaches?

 

The familys of students at Trinity and all other private (not just catholic) schools make sacrafices because they feel that their childrens educational needs will be better served in that environment. If the recruiting and finincial aid (your words not mine) make so much of a difference then why don't Holy Cross or DeSales regularly challange for championships in their respective classes?

 

I'm sorry but your whole post sounded to me like one big excuse for why your team can't compete with the big guns. While we're on that subject explain how a public school like Male has been able to be as successful as they have with a much smaller male enrollment then either Trinity or X. Could coaching and tradition be a factor for them but not for the private schools?

[Bert]

KRock, Flagetbrave, Centrerocks, LSURocks, Sportfanatic, or any other Trinity faithful. Have any of you guys (or gals for that matter) ever seen the statistics Trinity publishes that give information about enrollment numbers dating back to Trinity's founding and how enrollment has evolved over the decades. I haven't seen them for a long while.

 

The reason I ask, I was wonder what Trinity's numbers were in 1968 when Trinity won its first state and what its numbers were in the 1970's and how those numbers compared to other high schools. Trinity's 1968 state came 3 or so years after Coach Kennedy was hired.

 

My uncle graduated in 1967 and was the chairman of his reunion class. I saw his list of graduates and think there were about 100 in his class.

 

With some real statistics, maybe we can some insight on the numbers vs. coaching arguement.

[yoda1]

Originally posted by CentreRocks

 

Finally, if you took the coaching staff at Trinity and put them at any school in the state, I contend that they would win a state championship within five years. [/b]

 

I would love to take you up on that, if we could work it out.

[rockmom]

Originally posted by SuperShamrocks

[its still 11 on 11...no matter how you shape it...the game of football is 11 on 11....

11 on 11

 

I agree 100%. Regardless of the number of boys in a school, or the number of players on a team, coaches put out their best 11 each way. I am so tired of hearing that Trinity has advantages because it is an all boy's school! So what! Many of those kids on their teams see very little playing time! Is that to their advantage? Many are very talented athletes, there are just those that are even better ahead of them. They could go to a public school, they could go to a smaller Catholic School and see more playing time. But, as the point has been made numerous times, it's about more than the game. There's tradition, there's loyalty, there's discipline, ...... It's not as if every single boy who goes to Trinity goes to play football. Parents do not pay that tuition for the sole purpose of their kid playing football at Trinity. A Championship-winning Football team is not the only advantage Trinity offers kids. The expectations of a young man at Trinity are high regardless of their extra-curicluar activities. If you don't succeed in the classroom, you don't play! The whole atmosphere at Trinity is to mold these young men into leaders. That's the Trinity or St. X advantage. The same expectations are put on the young men regardless of the goal. That expectation is to PREPARE & SUCCEED IN YOUR GOALS!

 

In addition, parents are heavily involved in the school, it's athletics, as well as fundraising and just general support. I'd venture to say, that just as I am, we are our kid's biggest fans. We are involved and we support our coaches and ensure our kids put forth their best effort each and every time. That's our role.

 

Trinity succeeds because EVERYONE is involved in the success of the young men regardless of the sport, or lack of sport.

 

If it's not working, Trinity will find a way to make it work. There's always the expectation of everyone involved-teachers, administrators, coaches, parents, students-to continue to improve.

 

That's the difference!

 

 

(Sorry about the tirade)

[Bert]

Guys, there is nothing wrong with having an advantage. (TheMan)

 

 

Then why does this issue keep coming up? Technically it should not have come up today. TheGuru and the moderators continue to preach that we should not create new threads when threads in the past cover essentually the exact same arguement. This same thread has been repeated atleast a dozen times this year.

 

So, I apologize Guru for taking part in the thread that has already been created many times before and is wasting space on your server.

[rockmom]

I am sorry, as well. But, since someone seem to have a need to keep bringing it up, there will be responses. I try not to respond to these kinds of posts, but I get tired of these assumptions! Athletes are developed, no one just goes out there and is great without practice, development, coaching, etc.

 

And not every kid who plays football at Trinity is on a scholarship. My kid plays, and there's no financial aid. I work 2 jobs for the purpose of providing both of my kids a faith based education with graduation requirements that exceed the KY State requirements, and a chance to excel in the future. They may not take advantage of the foundation that I'm trying to lay, but it is my responsibility to do that for them, if I choose.

 

We're just tired of hearing how Trinity & St X supposedly have this enormous pool of kids that they can just grab at any time and throw out there!

[yoda1]

Bert, it keeps coming up because they do have a distinct advantage. If it were not so, do you think it would keep coming up?

[TheMan]

Originally posted by rockmom

We're just tired of hearing how Trinity & St X supposedly have this enormous pool of kids that they can just grab at any time and throw out there!

 

You may be tired of hearing it, but it is still true. Trinity & X do have a huge pool of kids to pull from to put their 11 on the field.

 

I agree with TheMan on this one.

[rockmom]

Davis,

 

I guess, in a nutshell, my point is that a regardless of the number of boys in the school, and the ability to draw from that greater number, a great team is developed and it takes years and dedication from all involved. My son sees very little playing time, but he's proud to be on the team and works VERY hard. That goes for most of the kids on the Trinity football teams. He does not give up just because he doesn't start or rarely gets to play. He practices just as hard as if he were one of the starters.

 

OK-so there's no nutshell. But, the point is that coaching and motivation have a greater part in the development of great football teams, regardless of the number of kids to choose from.

[MikeyMike]

If you can't hang with the big dogs, get off the porch.

 

This numbers arguement is an insult to any school that has ever beat X or Trinity. They overcame the odds to beat the giants, and they did it through hard work and teamwork. Not by whining about having to play against a bigger school.

[Bert]

If someone has anything new to add then I think it is fine to bring the issue up again. However, both sides of the arguement are pretty much saying the same thing they have said in the past with no new information to bring a conclusion to the arguement. So why bring it up again?

 

If you have anything new to add, I would be happy to discuss it with you for days. But, nothing new has come up in this thread.

 

At this point, I think it is best to agree to disagree.

 

For the Trinity/St. X side, just to say that in our opinion, our winning is not due to our numbers. Our winning comes from going across the country to hire the best coaches we can find. Our winning also comes from our tradition of winning and expecting more out of our players, coaches, trainers and the school itself.

 

For the non Trinity/St. X side to say that in our opinion Trinity and St. X win mostly because of the advantage they have with thier numbers. Yeah, good coaches and tradition help but, numbers are what bring victories. And while I may not like the fact that they have this advantage over my school, I can live with it -OR- I think private schools should not be allowed to play in the KHSAA.

 

That last part of that sentence is a entirely new thread itself. One I haven't heard for awhile.

[Trinity alum]

Guys, I have to agree, size does matter. So do support, tradition, expectations, feeder schools, coaching, facilities etc. We work very hard to make sure Trinity has ALL of those advantages and any others we can think of. Those advantages are NOT unfair.

 

I need to make a correction. In the 1968-69 school year, Trinity was almost as large as it is today. In 1969, Trinity graduated 301. The 60's were a period of very rapid growth.

[Sports Fanatic]

I throw my hands up in the air and submit.

 

Our secret is out.

 

LSU, flaget, rockmom etc. we may as well confess.

 

Trinity in reality has over 10,000 young men on campus. They come from coast to coast and are housed in our dormitory complex. Trinity was the first school in Jefferson County to start a house system I believe. They are all on full scholarships and in fact we pay most of them to come to Trinity.

 

We never practice, we don't need to. We simply line up 11 players and if they can't get the job done we just put 11 more in. We keep changing until we find 11 that can make the plays. We went through almost 400 players (we kept 300 or so in the locker room) during the Male game. They won't have anything to do with football again until our first scrimmage in August.

 

Our coaches don't teach the game, they dont have to. As I stated before they just constantly change players because of the large numbers until they find ones to make plays. They also never prepare for an opponent, they don't have to. With the huge numbers we have it is not a problem finding someone who can play better then the person they line up across from.