TheMan gives the simple truth about Trinity (and St. X)

[Sports Fanatic]

Originally posted by Davis

What is your point SF? What does making gross exagerations do except show that you do not want to carry on an intellectual debate?

 

I was trying to make two points.

 

First, regardless of any argument any Trinity fan makes there are those who will never accept anything short of their belief that the only reason that Trinity is so successful is numbers.

 

Second, I was trying to sound as absurd as possible because IMHO all of the talk about numbers takes away from one very important fact. The men (coaches and players) that represent Trinity on the football field give a huge part of themselves to be as successful as they are and threads that state that they would not be successful without the numbers is an insult to the hard work that they do. And before anyone starts the other accusatiuons, no I am not saying that public school teams don't work hard, although I think you would be hard pressed to find one that works any harder in the off season and pre-season then Trinity.

 

Yes, its a number game. Large numbers give Trinity the ability to have full scout teams both offensively and defensively. It lets them platoon every position so no one goes both ways, although exceptions have and will be made to that as needed. But that is just a portion of the reason for Trinity's success. The biggest reason IMHO is preparation. The coaching staff does an outstanding job of making sure the players are ready when they walk on the field.

[Bert]

I understand it is not an athletic scholarship. Bert do you think they would be willing to stop offering scholarships? If so I think this debate would come to an end. I feel that the fact that a student can have 50% of their tuition paid just aids to the problem. (Yoda)

 

Yoda,

 

I think you are forgetting the entire purpose of financial aid. It is for the family who wants their child to receive a Trinity or St. X EDUCATION who cannot come up with the funds. There is nothing worse than losing a STUDENT, not an athlete, who just cannot come up with the funds to go to either school. I remind you, whether or not you receive aid and how much aid is given is determined by where the family's Ajusted Gross Income falls on a predetermined scale and how many dependents you have, not what you 40 time is.

 

So to answer your question, "Bert do you think they would be willing to stop offering scholarships?" God no. I would like to think that being Catholic/Christian schools, neither X or Trinity would ever refuse aid to a disadvantaged student just to add to the arguement we are currently having. I think some people at Trinity or X would be offended at the thought. I just feel maybe we are all getting a little wrapped up in the discussion and forgetting what is really important.

[Bert]

But some of the alums put their team on a high pedestal and act like some of the other schools(no matter the size or history) are also-rans. People just want to point out the differences. One of the biggest differences in most cases is numbers. (NamecipS)

 

NamecipS,

 

I will agree with you that there are some posters on the site whose comments would give Trinity and its alumni an arrogant stereotype and I apologize for any comments they have made which have sparked a fire under you.

 

I truely believe that the majority of the Trinity Community are like myself and are level headed and look at all opponents of Trinity with utmost respect and do not look down at any of them. I can promise you that the players, coaches and staff feel the same way.

[yoda1]

Bert then are you telling me that any disadvantaged student regardless of income can go to school at T or X. Just asking questions. I am not trying to corner you. I simply do not know.

[RockSolid]

In basketball Oak Hill Academy has only 300 kids in thier school, but some how they are one of the best teams in the nation, how could that be if numbers matter so much? :confused:

[HCTradition]

If numbers don't matter, and the only thing is coaching, community support, and that great private education, then why don't Cov. Cath, Desales, Newport Cath etc. each have 15 State titles?

As for basketball:

1. 5 starters vs. 11 in football

2. It only takes 2 studs to have an outstanding team in bb

3. You can't platoon offense and defense in bb

 

and on the humorous side"white men can't jump":lol:

[yoda1]

Originally posted by RockSolid

In basketball Oak Hill Academy has only 300 kids in thier school, but some how they are one of the best teams in the nation, how could that be if numbers matter so much? :confused:

 

I wonder why.

[HCTradition]

Originally posted by RockSolid

In basketball Oak Hill Academy has only 300 kids in thier school, but some how they are one of the best teams in the nation, how could that be if numbers matter so much? :confused:

Bad example. Oak Hill is a private "Live In" PREPARATORY ACADEMY in Virginia who routinely draw basketball players from around the nation for the specific purpose of basketball. I also believe they are not allowed to compete in the Virginia tournament.

[Bert]

Yoda,

 

I wouldn't say anyone regardless of income can go Trinity but, that is the ultimate goal. Much effort is being made by Trinity staff and alumni to keep increasing the size of the schools endowment to eventually reach that point.

 

So unfortunately at this, there isn't enough coming out of the endowment yet to reach that goal. If you think about it, 50% of 6,500-6,750 (whichever it is) is still quite a bit for some families especially with several boys in the family. We will get there eventually. That is the number one goal of the Trinity Board of Trustees and the leadership of the school. Yes that goal is even higher than the football team winning another state championship. I know many of you are shocked to hear that. Ha ha.

[rockmom]

I think one of the reasons this touches such a nerve is that, speaking for myself, the comments that are made here about Trinity & St. X's advantages over other schools are not confined to sports. I face it frequently from other parents who think I am wasting my money when there's been such progress in Public Schools. I get tired of having to justify my decision. The fact is, I tried to get my daughter into Manuel b/c they have a studio arts program, but they only accept a certain number of parochial school kids each year.

 

We just want the merits of the individuals involved recognized and not be scapegoats because another team doesn't have the same success.

[austinman1]

Sportsfan says

I'm sorry but your whole post sounded to me like one big excuse for why your team can't compete with the big guns.

 

First of all, I am not giving excuses! Just facts that are important to this post! I understand you feeling attacked for what you have accomplished. Secondly, I find it in poor taste that your arrogants would bring you to say that MY team can't compete with the big guns. You have no idea where I coach, who I coach with and what we are accomplishing with our young men. You have no idea what we do, all you know is that WE didn't beat Trinity. There are many ways to measure your program? Wins, Championships, District and Regional titles are all ways and certainly goals, but that isn't the biggest picture.

 

The depth of your vengeance has clouded what has been said.

 

1. Trinity has MORE Boys!

2. The school has to recruit to stay alive!

3. The school offers financial assistance to students/athletes!

 

Are these facts? You can answer that one. If they are facts, do they help increase a program's ability to be successfull? Answer that once also!

 

What hasn't been said, that hasn't clouded MY judgement!

 

1. The players have to practice and play the game, just like everyone else!

2. The coaches have to coach and coach the game, just like everyone else!

3. The football tradition of the school just breeds success!

4. The hard work those young men go through to become a good football player!

 

I don't understand why YOUR Faithful, can't look beyond your own noses and see what many others CAN see! It is not an attack upon what you have accomplished. Can anyone take that away. Heck NO! And if I were a Trinity player past or present, I would acknowledge we have some advantages, but we still have to play the game and that is the beauty of it all. And it is the nature of the BEAST to browbeat the ones On Top! Just don't take it so personal!

[yoda1]

Bert, I have the utmost respect for the private school system and if I had a child, I would have enrolled them in the Catholic school system even if I had to take on a second job. But it would not be for the reasons we have addressed here. Do I think their school system has better teachers or coaches? Heck, no. But there are definite advantages.

I cannot see how you can reach the socially and economically disadvantaged student if your numbers are correct. Do not take me wrong here. I know that you have to support your system in order to keep it running. And that takes al ot of money to keep up the standards you have set for yourselves.

Bert, I simply feel that the private schools, no matter the size, have a distinct advantage if they are able to offer scholarships to their students in order to reach more kids. If they were to drop the scholarships, would there be any less money coming in to the system? I do not think so. I would venture to say that there would be a significant drop in their enrollment if they were to stop offering scholarships. And with that drop, would their sports programs be as strong? I would venture to say not.

The sports programs mean a lot to a school system because it is a drawing card for them. Yes, we are going to say that academics come first, and they should. But let us not fool ourselves by saying sports are secondary. If it were so, we would not be having this debate. If sports were secondary, would you be drawing 30,000+ fans to the St. X/Trinity football game each year?

[rjw1239]

The Trinity fans state that they are successful due to coaching, hardwork, etc., however, one cannot overlook the inherant advantage that is gained by having great numbers.

 

Apollo, for example, could hire the best coach in the state. However, with their size I doubt that they could compete for a state title year in and year out. Now if we were to combine their team with Owensboro, they would fare much better, perhaps even compete for state.

 

Sure Trinity has a great program, but it DOES help to be able to choose a team from so many boys.

[SportsGuy41017]

I will tell you that in the past 15 years without the increased enrollment at Beechwood we would not have been in the state finals 9 times winning 7 ! Yes, maybe we could have won a few times, but one of the main reasons for the success is the numbers! Not sure why others can't see that in their schools, not that there is anything to be ashamed of, but it is a major reason..

[Gone]

austinman1 says,

2. The school has to recruit to stay alive!

3. The school offers financial assistance to students/athletes!

 

Trinity does not "recruit." The name Trinity, the tradition of the school does all the recruiting that is needed. Trinity offers financial assistance to all students who qualify for it, athlete or not. The athletes do not recieve preferential treatment at Trinity. They are dealt with just like every other student. When it comes down to it, thats what they really are, students.

 

It seems that everytime this thread comes up, people just say the same things over and over again. Just read the previous threads and stop beating a horse that has been dead for a long time.