TheMan gives the simple truth about Trinity (and St. X)

[NamecipS]

Originally posted by PepRock01

Then why are we not saying the same thing about St.X in soccer or swimming, or Assumption in volleyball? Why is it that

 

Because this is the football forum.

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.:lol:

[brudawg]

No school should have ANY advantages over any other school, no matter what the advantage is....PERIOD!

[yoda1]

Originally posted by brudawg

No school should have ANY advantages over any other school, no matter what the advantage is....PERIOD!

 

Brudawg there is no way of getting around one school having an advantage over another. The debate is over the unfair advantages.

[brudawg]

Brudawg there is no way of getting around one school having an advantage over another. The debate is over the unfair advantages.

 

That is exactly what I ment. Trinity being able to "recruit", or whatever you want to call it, is like Miama being able to recruit anywhere in teh country, and all the other schools have to get instate players. Or something like that.

[CoachJ]

from an earlier post:

"Does Trinity Recruit? Yes we do, we send students along with Roger Burkman to Catholic grade schools to try and entice students to go to Trinity, all Catholic schools do this. They only go to Catholic grade schools as well, so they are not recruiting kids from public schools."

 

First of all, let me say that Trinity does a GREAT job all the way around...great coaching, classy, disciplined kids, commitment to having nothing but the best of facilities, and "attracting" kids--espcecially ones from outside their "usual" demographic as of late (something I like actually as a proponent of the "voucher" system). They are a class act on the field and deserve their success.

 

However, the above quote, while not entirely false, is a great example of how Trinity has become what they have (and will continue to dominate, in my opinion, unless St. X adopts a similar strategy)--it is not entirely TRUE. They are great not only at recruiting (which is NOT a dirty word, but rather how they have to survive as an institution) but it should be noted that they are great because they have figured out how to superbly "attract" kids in ways that don't violate the LETTER of the rules (so as not to ever give anyone cause to bring "proof").

 

Cases in point:

Roger Burkman, who was mentioned above and is the "Admissions" director at Trinity, in addition to going to "Catholic schools" also runs a summer basketball camp at the Oldham County (which is adjacent to Jefferson County) YMCA. The sign promoting it is HUGE and GREEN, sits conspicuously on a major highway in Oldham County, and bears his email address which ends in "thsrocks.net." It is not illegal to have this camp here...but it is nonetheless fishy if his goal is to attract only "Catholic" kids.

 

He has also been seen at at least three Oldham County Middle School basketball games this December (not necessarily to "recruit" anyone in particular--I believe he has a good friend out here with a son on the team--but conspicuously there, nonetheless). ** One of T's great advantages I applaud them on is being able to have someone that is technically allowed (not being an actual coach) and has the time (unlike a coach in season) to go to middle school athletic events like this and speak to parents as long as it's not about "athletics".

 

We have had students (who also happen to be our more "stand-out" athletes) from our middle school (which is a direct feeder into our high school) for years receive letters inviting them to "Chili Suppers" and Open Houses. Recently, some were invited to a Pre-Thanksgiving Day Breakfast followed by special invitation to watch the Rocks practice for their upcoming State Football Semi-Final game. Great marketing! ****, one year they even called our school secretary to have it announced over the school's PA system that "all Oldham County students, parents, and fans were invited to attend a pre-game Spaghetti Supper to be held in the Alumni Hall prior to the game between your Colonels and the Shamrocks." How CORDIAL is that!!!

 

But they are VERY intelligent in not ever crossing that line established by the KHSAA...they mention financial aid in the letters that come to our kids out here (Catholic or otherwise) but are VERY careful never to say it's "athletic" aid. They come out to watch the games with their green "T" jackets on, but are careful if they are coaches not to actually speak to any of the kids that receive the letters for to do so at an athletic event would be an infraction. They state that they want them to come to Trinity and how good the extra-curriculars are there but are smart enough to NEVER say that's the main reason they're getting a letter while the smart, non-athletic kid that sits next to them in math class at Oldham County Middle never receives such a letter.

 

I applaud them for their dedication to creating an "all-around" experience for their students, for their dedication and efficiency in attracting great students--and especially as of late the best student-athletes--from what has become a five-county and two-state area, and most of all for their ability to stay JUST within that line of what is "legal" by the LETTER of the law and what is not.

[RockofAges]

Good job CoachJ. You described a basic difference between the winners and the whiners.

[FootballTwentyFourSeven]

Interesting that those without a sound argument in response to stated facts must settle for the emotion-based non-sequitur...

 

...and as Jesse Jackson has found to work so many times, a good irony play on similar-sounding words ("winner/whiner") is JUST distracting enough to the brainwashed to keep them from making a reasoned examination of the facts at hand.

 

Maybe, RockOfAges, you could provide an actual response to some of the points raised rather than just dismiss them with your "clever" little myopically arrogant statement.

 

Sounds like the post before yours isn't one of a "whiner" (or non-"winner") as much as one of someone who would like to win more but is hamstrung because of others' ability to gain said "advantages" in his backyard.

[RockofAges]

Nothing like an antediluvian reply to spark a bit of interest. My , for lack of better terminology, "myopic" response is not as perceived. Rather I am simply confirming the fact that Trinity does an outstanding job of that which is necessary to produce top quality student/athletes and good citizens. After reading many earlier threads about that other sport in another part of our fair state, student transfers and rabid inferrals of less than legal tactics I am proud to be a Trinity alumnus and know what the school and alumni do to acquire and maintain outstanding students is above board and legal in all respects as determined by KHSAA. That is why Trinity does not have to look over it's shouldere and be concerned about policies and procedures. When you are in second place, the view never changes.

[Rocks_00]

Originally posted by austinman1

Since you are dead set not to agree scholarships given and financial aid given to a student at a private isn't an advantage over a student a public school (because all public school students are on tax payer aid), let me posed this to you.

 

Can I take my tax payer aided money and recruit a fine academic student to go to my school? Can I go to Shelby, Bullitt, Hardin, Oldham, Indiana? Not in my County!

 

If anything, the Catholic schools have the BIggest advantage over others in the state because they can say, ACADEMICS is our selling point. We can recruit or our school will not surive. How can KHSAA dispute that?

 

No you cannot do what you have posted. But who is responsible for that policy? Not Trinity, the KHSAA, or the LCPS. IF the residents of a particular county feel that they should be able to do so, write a letter, start a petition, do something besides complaing on this board.

 

I have said this at least twice already. Tirinty DOES HAVE AN ADVANTAGE. But neither is this advantage unfair nor is it the only reason, as TheMan purports, is it the only reason that Trinity has the type of program that it does. THere are many other factors that are more important than a large enrollment, look at those top 15 enrollment schools that have not had much success for an example.

[Getslow]

I will come out and say it. I was recruited by Trinity High School. The coach of the academic team was very persistent in wanting me to participate in that activity at Trinity. I was personally invited by team membes to attend the Open House during my 8th grade year and even sit in on a practice. I can say that this was a big reason I came to Trinity and participated in that activity for all 4 years I was there.

 

I also took a class at Trinity during 8th grade year. I was in Mr. Dennis Esterle's Advanced Algebra 1 class that year, a great ploy to attract kids to the school.

 

It's how we keep an edge on the Xaverians. It certainly isn't limited to athletes. I was dead-set on trying to get into Manual's excellent program at the end of my seventh grade year. Looking back, I'm glad I made the choice that I did. Who knows, if it weren't for the recruitment and the scholarship, I might be on this very site arguing about Trinity's unfair advantages...

[Sports Fanatic]

Originally posted by H

True Tony grew up in Glasgow before he MOVED to Louisville, but about the tuition part: what coloring book did you read that in?

 

He moved to Louisville...Did his family move with him?

[brudawg]

People are not saying that Trinity "recruits" just to make an excuse why they are better than other teams. Because they are a WHOLE lot better then the mojority of the teams in the state.....for many reasons, one being the recruitment issue. When Male won state 2 years ago, I don't remember people complaining, or making excuses why they won. Male just had a better team, and had no advantages over Trinity except for the fact that they were better. I dont know, in a way, i guess it is an excuse, but face it, Trinity has an unfair advantage over ALL public schools(as does X), and something should be done about it.

[RockofAges]

Brudawg,

 

Is it just Trinity or every non-public school in KY that has a decided advantage?

[flagetbrave]

Originally posted by CoachJ

from an earlier post:

 

 

Cases in point:

Roger Burkman, who was mentioned above and is the "Admissions" director at Trinity, in addition to going to "Catholic schools" also runs a summer basketball camp at the Oldham County (which is adjacent to Jefferson County) YMCA. The sign promoting it is HUGE and GREEN, sits conspicuously on a major highway in Oldham County, and bears his email address which ends in "thsrocks.net." It is not illegal to have this camp here...but it is nonetheless fishy if his goal is to attract only "Catholic" kids.

 

He has also been seen at at least three Oldham County Middle School basketball games this December (not necessarily to "recruit" anyone in particular--I believe he has a good friend out here with a son on the team--but conspicuously there, nonetheless). ** One of T's great advantages I applaud them on is being able to have someone that is technically allowed (not being an actual coach) and has the time (unlike a coach in season) to go to middle school athletic events like this and speak to parents as long as it's not about "athletics".

 

We have had students (who also happen to be our more "stand-out" athletes) from our middle school (which is a direct feeder into our high school) for years receive letters inviting them to "Chili Suppers" and Open Houses. Recently, some were invited to a Pre-Thanksgiving Day Breakfast followed by special invitation to watch the Rocks practice for their upcoming State Football Semi-Final game. Great marketing! ****, one year they even called our school secretary to have it announced over the school's PA system that "all Oldham County students, parents, and fans were invited to attend a pre-game Spaghetti Supper to be held in the Alumni Hall prior to the game between your Colonels and the Shamrocks." How CORDIAL is that!!!

 

But they are VERY intelligent in not ever crossing that line established by the KHSAA...they mention financial aid in the letters that come to our kids out here (Catholic or otherwise) but are VERY careful never to say it's "athletic" aid. They come out to watch the games with their green "T" jackets on, but are careful if they are coaches not to actually speak to any of the kids that receive the letters for to do so at an athletic event would be an infraction. They state that they want them to come to Trinity and how good the extra-curriculars are there but are smart enough to NEVER say that's the main reason they're getting a letter while the smart, non-athletic kid that sits next to them in math class at Oldham County Middle never receives such a letter.

 

I applaud them for their dedication to creating an "all-around" experience for their students, for their dedication and efficiency in attracting great students--and especially as of late the best student-athletes--from what has become a five-county and two-state area, and most of all for their ability to stay JUST within that line of what is "legal" by the LETTER of the law and what is not.

 

CoachJ, you seem a thoughtful man and I enjoyed your post. You clearly admire Trinity for their success although you imply that some things they do to "recruit" are unethical. You mention:

 

Point 1. Roger Burkman runs a basketball camp in Oldham County and promotes this with a green sign and uses his thsrock.net email address.

Counterpoint. I suspect that Mr. Burkman charges for a spot in his camp and further suspect that he does not share the proceeds with Trinity High School. I would conclude that this is a private venture. Mr. Burkman has no affiliation with Trinity Basketball other than as an employee of the school. (I'm sure Trinity doesn't mind Mr. Burkman using the school's email.)

 

Point 2. Mr. Burkman has been spotted at some Oldham Middle School basketball games, even though there to watch a friend's son.

Counterpoint. I'm afraid this speaks for itself. Mr. Burkman can act like a free man and attend any game that pleases him, just like you or me.

 

Point 3. Letters are sent inviting students (and parents) to Thanksgiving practice and Chili suppers.

Counterpoint. In order to entice kids to Trinity (remember, parents must PAY to send their kids) Trinity invites interested parties to attend special events. Trinity treats kids special so that they feel special. Although Trinity loves excellent athletes, they want every kid from Oldham County that wants to attend a Catholic High School to give Trinity a look. If parents want this for their kids Trinity wants them to know they are welcome. I suspect every Middle School boy receives a letter from Trinity at some point. If you wonder why only football players receive a letter to attend a Trinity Football practice, then perhaps Trinity should invite the debate team as well, but once again it is a special event. Finally, the Chili Supper is a fund raiser sponsored by the Trinity Cross Country team to help them pay for trips out of town. Since football games begin at 7:30, some find it convenient to eat somewhere close to the stadium before game time. For those Oldham County parents, we offered a spaghetti meal, all-you-can-eat for $5.00. It was not about recruiting, but about raising money.

 

Point 4. Trinity speaks of "financial" aid and wear "T" jackets to games.

Counterpoint. Parents sometimes wonder how they could possibly afford to send their kids to a private school. Many dream about it and want it very much for their children, but do not think they can afford it. The Louisville Catholic schools, as almost all private schools including colleges, offer financial aid. Trinity does not call it athletic aid because that would be incorrect. Those parents with three boys (over $18,000 due for tuition per year) in school at the same time. How many of us could find $18,000/year extra for school? This is the "aid" Trinity writes about in their letters. Trinity people wear "T" jackets and proudly promote their school because they love it.

 

Thank you for admitting that Trinity follows the rules. Most parents feel good about sending their sons to your wonderful school(s) in Oldham County, but Trinity wants them to have a choice. If you know of a Middle School boy without an invitation to Trinity, athlete or not, please forward their name and address to Roger Burkman, (you can find his address on that large sign.)Trinity wants to be the best at everything and we need Oldham County boys to succeed!

[brudawg]

Is it just Trinity or every non-public school in KY that has a decided advantage?

 

I am just say Trinity and St.X because thats who this topic is about, and also pretty much the only non-public schools in jefferson county.