Obama and his changing positions

[halfback20]

Your argument may have some merit. But when the pattern is so very clear on so many issues, I tend to think that it is a case of pandering/saying and doing whatever one thinks it will take to get elected; rather than evolving stances over time.

 

:thumb:

 

He's changed his mind (AKA flip flopped) on many other issues as well.

[Run To State]

Since we seem to be keeping score, here are just a few of Crock's.

 

Obama Flip-Flops:

 

1. Special interests

 

2. Public financing

 

3. The Cuba embargo

 

4. Illegal immigration

 

5. Decriminalization of marijuana

 

6. Running for President or Vice President of the United States

 

7. Single-Payer Healthcare

 

8. NAFTA

 

9. Donations from Lobbyists and Special Interest PACS

 

10. Rev. Jeremiah Wright

 

11. Jerusalem

 

12. Meeting with Foreign Leaders

 

13. Legislation Labeling Iran's Revolutionary Guard A Terrorist Organization

 

14. Palestinian Elections In 2006

 

15. Withdrawal from Iraq.

 

16. The Threat of Iran

 

17. North Korea

 

18. PATRIOT Act

 

19. Coal

 

20. PAYGO

 

21. Meeting with Ahmadinejad

 

22. Illegal Immigrants and Driver's Licenses

 

23. FISA

 

24. The Surge

 

25. Nuclear Power

 

26. Vouchers

 

27. 2nd Amendment

 

28. DC Gun Ban

 

29. Welfare Reform

[AcesFull]

Since we seem to be keeping score, here are just a few of Crock's.

 

Obama Flip-Flops:

 

1. Special interests

 

2. Public financing

 

3. The Cuba embargo

 

4. Illegal immigration

 

5. Decriminalization of marijuana

 

6. Running for President or Vice President of the United States

 

7. Single-Payer Healthcare

 

8. NAFTA

 

9. Donations from Lobbyists and Special Interest PACS

 

10. Rev. Jeremiah Wright

 

11. Jerusalem

 

12. Meeting with Foreign Leaders

 

13. Legislation Labeling Iran's Revolutionary Guard A Terrorist Organization

 

14. Palestinian Elections In 2006

 

15. Withdrawal from Iraq.

 

16. The Threat of Iran

 

17. North Korea

 

18. PATRIOT Act

 

19. Coal

 

20. PAYGO

 

21. Meeting with Ahmadinejad

 

22. Illegal Immigrants and Driver's Licenses

 

23. FISA

 

24. The Surge

 

25. Nuclear Power

 

26. Vouchers

 

27. 2nd Amendment

 

28. DC Gun Ban

 

29. Welfare Reform

I am assuming that he no longer favors allowing hospitals to deny medical treatment to victims of botched abortions (the babies not the would-be mothers).

[mcpapa]

Simply amazing. Both candidates have changed their minds on a plethora of issues. Who'da thunk it?

[Run To State]

Simply amazing. Both candidates have changed their minds on a plethora of issues. Who'da thunk it?

Yep, both are just typical politicians. Nothing new from either of them.

[AcesFull]

Since we seem to be keeping score, here are just a few of Crock's.

 

Obama Flip-Flops:

 

1. Special interests

 

2. Public financing

 

3. The Cuba embargo

 

4. Illegal immigration

 

5. Decriminalization of marijuana

 

6. Running for President or Vice President of the United States

 

7. Single-Payer Healthcare

 

8. NAFTA

 

9. Donations from Lobbyists and Special Interest PACS

 

10. Rev. Jeremiah Wright

 

11. Jerusalem

 

12. Meeting with Foreign Leaders

 

13. Legislation Labeling Iran's Revolutionary Guard A Terrorist Organization

 

14. Palestinian Elections In 2006

 

15. Withdrawal from Iraq.

 

16. The Threat of Iran

 

17. North Korea

 

18. PATRIOT Act

 

19. Coal

 

20. PAYGO

 

21. Meeting with Ahmadinejad

 

22. Illegal Immigrants and Driver's Licenses

 

23. FISA

 

24. The Surge

 

25. Nuclear Power

 

26. Vouchers

 

27. 2nd Amendment

 

28. DC Gun Ban

 

29. Welfare Reform

You can add gay marriage to the list. Obama once said that he favored letting the states decide. Now he says that he is opposed to the initiative in California to ban gay marriage and that he also favors using federal laws to prevent state bans. (Just in case anybody ever really believed that Obama was opposed to gay marriage or that he ever favored the concept that states have some constitutional rights.)

[acemona]

Just curious, are they never supposed to change positions?

 

I have no problem with it at all.

 

There were some things about which I was adamant as a teacher and I now have different views as an administrator.

 

Even my religious beliefs have changed over the years. The more I learn the different my views.

 

If I believe all of the same things I did 5 years ago do that mean that I have not grown or been inspired or even understood that I was wrong?? I would be more concerned with people who have never changed their opinion on something, even when all of the evidence points out that those opinions are wrong (ala our current leader.)

[the mathemagician]

Just curious, are they never supposed to change positions?

 

I have no problem with it at all.

 

There were some things about which I was adamant as a teacher and I now have different views as an administrator.

 

Even my religious beliefs have changed over the years. The more I learn the different my views.

 

If I believe all of the same things I did 5 years ago do that mean that I have not grown or been inspired or even understood that I was wrong?? I would be more concerned with people who have never changed their opinion on something, even when all of the evidence points out that those opinions are wrong (ala our current leader.)

 

 

I agree. I have never begrudged Sen. McCain for flipping on some issues. And likewise with Senator Obama. However, once you see a pattern of habitual flipping and flopping , then you start to think that maybe its always more political expediency than actually learning and developing new beliefs.

[Run To State]

I agree. I have never begrudged Sen. McCain for flipping on some issues. And likewise with Senator Obama. However, once you see a pattern of habitual flipping and flopping , then you start to think that maybe its always more political expediency than actually learning and developing new beliefs.

So, you admit Obama is no different from McCain or any other politician when it comes to changing his mind, it's more political expediency than actually learning and developing new beliefs?

[mcpapa]

So, you admit Obama is no different from McCain or any other politician when it comes to changing his mind, it's more political expediency than actually learning and developing new beliefs?

 

I'll admit it. They all do it. To take it one step further, since Obama has had fewer years than McCain to formulate then change positions; I'll go so far as to say that it may be a "higher degree" of political expedience in Obama's case than in McCain's.

 

Not going to change my vote, though...

[Run To State]

I'll admit it. They all do it. To take it one step further, since Obama has had fewer years than McCain to formulate then change positions; I'll go so far as to say that it may be a "higher degree" of political expedience in Obama's case than in McCain's.

 

Not going to change my vote, though...

At least you admit it.

 

What about Obama makes you want to vote for him? I mean, big time taxes alone is going to be a huge hammer on our heads.

[mcpapa]

At least you admit it.

 

What about Obama makes you want to vote for him? I mean, big time taxes alone is going to be a huge hammer on our heads.

 

From what I can tell, I'm not in a tax bracket that will experience an increase in income taxes in an Obama administration. I don't earn anywhere near tha cutoff for Social Security/Medicare contributions. I don't have an estate worth anywhere near $2 million, or whatever the exclusion figure is these days. Capital gains has never been in my vocabulary.

 

Pure and simple, for me it's the war. Hundreds of billions of dollars (not to mention thousands of lives), that in my humble opinion could be better spent. Also, eight years of attempted end runs around the Constitution are quite enough for me.

 

And when I ask myself the "litmus test" question - am I better off than I was eight years ago; the answer is a resounding "no".

[True blue (and gold)]

At least you admit it.

 

What about Obama makes you want to vote for him? I mean, big time taxes alone is going to be a huge hammer on our heads.

 

According to their plans outlined in a previous thread, there won't be much difference for me as far as taxes. If seems to me that more people, overall, will benefit from Obama's plan then McCain's.

[Habib]

The "flip-flop" label isn't going to stick to either candidate this election. I think most are trying to reproduce the success the label had against Kerry last time, but unless one of the candidates produces something near the quality of "I actually voted for the $87 billion, before I voted against it," I just don't see it catching.

[mcpapa]

A small error in my previous post. Social Security (FICA) has the cutoff, not Medicare. $97,500 for 2007.