Teacher Pay?

[acemona]

I know that all of you are from different parts of the state, but in Kentucky there is limited collective bargaining outside of Jefferson Co. Here in Franklin Co, and in Eastern Ky., the union has no say over what I get paid. It is the board of education and the revenue, nothing else.

[bluethunder]

[/b]

 

I will be going into teaching within the next 2 years and I would be all for it. I'm already a substitute teacher, and substitues already have a merit system.. they get called back :lol:

 

I'm a teacher and have no problem with merit pay as long as each child is tested every fall and spring as they go through school. Example, I teach 3rd grade and I have a student who enters my room reading on the first grade level. I raise his/her level by the end of they year to lets say, 2nd grade 6 months. Over the year I've increased the childs reading level by one year, 6 months and while IMO that's doing a great job by the states standards I'm failing because that child is not reading at grade level and my pay is decreased or stays the same. Another problem with Merit pay is that not every child starts school at the same level. I'm at an elementary school that is a Reading First school and we test kids in the fall and spring and I can tell you that students entering kindergarten come in way below preschool level much less where they should be and you would be shocked on how much students "forget" in the summer and have test scores in the fall that are lower than the spring on the EXACT same test. Is that the Schools fault? BTW we also have a transient rate of 30%, how to you calculate kids entering your school from different schools, states, countries??

 

And..... I wouldn't trade my job for anything and knew exactly what I was going to make and while I would like to make more money, who doesn't, have no complaints about my salary, health care and state retirement.

[Eaglebooster77]

A teacher works about 8 months a year, I'll even concede another 2-3 weeks. That leaves you 12-13 weeks off. I would get another job during that off time, that would enable you to make more $$$$. I don't want to hear about taking work home, as most of us in the private sector do that as well, and work on the weekends, etc....Teachers all knew what the pay was when they got started in that field, they are paid justly IMO.

Are you kidding? besides the in class time there's the class prep work. Any teacher worth their salt puts in numerous hours in Unit design and lesson planning. Not to mention grading-every grade a class full of essay's or portfolio pieces? Plus the addition course work -Master's degree required. During the summer you spend a great deal of time going to conferences, PD's, or revising lesson plans.

Then you have the actual class time. Ever deal with 150+ students from a diverse back ground-many who don't wish to be there? Spend a day in a Kentucky high school and just watch. Bet you wouldn't think teachers are overpaid.:thumb:

[SilverShadow]

Before the question on compensation gets too out of hand the first question I have is what is the economic value of tenure? What other profession, which many teachers with Rank 1 want to compare to (other professions that require a Masters Degree) have the absolute guarantee of pay and a job for many years to come. That has to be worth something yet it is never acknowledged.

 

Second, the retirement of the certified teacher in this state was recently acknowledged as the best in the country. How is that possible for a state with such a poor macro economic model? And in the change of it how is it possible to increase the pay package on salary?

 

Should teachers be paid more? It is a relatively feel good statement to say yes they should. Who would stand against anyone getting a higher pay? But, add in the real fact that to accomplish the same would require higher tax payments of the community and the support is not reality. Every school district has 70% to 80% of their budget as payroll. It is unrealistic to think any district can change it to 80% to 90%. That is simply poor math logic.

 

The sad fact is teachers are topped out for income in this state until significant changes are made in the current operational model. If a teacher wishes to double their income, then accountability will take on a whole new level - more than what is experienced now. Merit will and well could be subjective, but any lawyer will tell you their client subjects them to merit everytime. Same goes for doctors, executives, etc. The bottom line is the higher the pay plane a person operates on the more demand of response, action and results will occur.

 

What will never happen is a significant increase in pay and the current measurements remain in place. What are teachers willing to give up and what you get in return cannot be guaranteed. That is the real world of comparative compensation. Most teachers are very uncomfortable with that.

[AcesFull]

^Outstanding post. You raise many good points and stated them very well.

[SilverShadow]

^Outstanding post. You raise many good points and stated them very well.

 

Thanks! There is opportunity to increase pay in this state/country but not under the current set of circumstances. There is no hidden, evil conservative - voucher choice force.... it is just a process of improving the economic circumstance and having it supported.

[Hamilton Joe]

Before the question on compensation gets too out of hand the first question I have is what is the economic value of tenure? What other profession, which many teachers with Rank 1 want to compare to (other professions that require a Masters Degree) have the absolute guarantee of pay and a job for many years to come. That has to be worth something yet it is never acknowledged.

 

Second, the retirement of the certified teacher in this state was recently acknowledged as the best in the country. How is that possible for a state with such a poor macro economic model? And in the change of it how is it possible to increase the pay package on salary?

 

Should teachers be paid more? It is a relatively feel good statement to say yes they should. Who would stand against anyone getting a higher pay? But, add in the real fact that to accomplish the same would require higher tax payments of the community and the support is not reality. Every school district has 70% to 80% of their budget as payroll. It is unrealistic to think any district can change it to 80% to 90%. That is simply poor math logic.

 

The sad fact is teachers are topped out for income in this state until significant changes are made in the current operational model. If a teacher wishes to double their income, then accountability will take on a whole new level - more than what is experienced now. Merit will and well could be subjective, but any lawyer will tell you their client subjects them to merit everytime. Same goes for doctors, executives, etc. The bottom line is the higher the pay plane a person operates on the more demand of response, action and results will occur.

 

What will never happen is a significant increase in pay and the current measurements remain in place. What are teachers willing to give up and what you get in return cannot be guaranteed. That is the real world of comparative compensation. Most teachers are very uncomfortable with that.

 

:thumb:Excellent post. You make a great deal of sense especially with regard to tenure. They never want to negotiate on that issue now do they? What other job provides such job security and as you said the Ky teachers retirement is 2nd to none.

[ladiesbballcoach]

A teacher works about 8 months a year, I'll even concede another 2-3 weeks. That leaves you 12-13 weeks off. I would get another job during that off time, that would enable you to make more $$$$. I don't want to hear about taking work home, as most of us in the private sector do that as well, and work on the weekends, etc....Teachers all knew what the pay was when they got started in that field, they are paid justly IMO.

 

You say that like, that makes it okay to underpay a profession.

 

Those who worked in the coal mines in the 20's knew it was a dangerous profession when they took the job. I guess they shouldn't have worked for safer conditions.

 

When women go into the workplace, they know that they are going to be paid less than men. I guess that is okay, too and they should just accept it.

 

Just because something is that way when you take the job is not ANY SORT OF REASON that it is acceptable and should not be worked for to change.

[RockPride]

Are you kidding? besides the in class time there's the class prep work. Any teacher worth their salt puts in numerous hours in Unit design and lesson planning. Not to mention grading-every grade a class full of essay's or portfolio pieces? Plus the addition course work -Master's degree required. During the summer you spend a great deal of time going to conferences, PD's, or revising lesson plans.

Then you have the actual class time. Ever deal with 150+ students from a diverse back ground-many who don't wish to be there? Spend a day in a Kentucky high school and just watch. Bet you wouldn't think teachers are overpaid.:thumb:

I spent plenty of time in high schools, with teachers, etcetera. Look, I am not trying to win any popularity contests with my opinions, but I feel they are just. Teachers have more down time that almost any other profession I know, besides pilots. They are paid a just salary for the amount of time they put in.

[RockPride]

You say that like, that makes it okay to underpay a profession.

 

Those who worked in the coal mines in the 20's knew it was a dangerous profession when they took the job. I guess they shouldn't have worked for safer conditions.

 

When women go into the workplace, they know that they are going to be paid less than men. I guess that is okay, too and they should just accept it.

 

Just because something is that way when you take the job is not ANY SORT OF REASON that it is acceptable and should not be worked for to change.

With coal workers you are talking about safety, that point doesn't really apply here.

 

With woman, there are still some in-equities there, though you should do some actual research on that. A lot of the short comings with women and their salary differential with their male counterparts is the woman's lack of negotiation of a high salary. That's become a statistic, and a pretty amazing one at that.

[woodsrider]

I said this in the thread a few weeks ago about this subject. I work in the private sector and my salary is based on 2080 hours. If teachers contracts on based on 187 hours as someone mentioned earlier then their salary based on 1496 hours. Now tell me a again how they are underpaid. And let's not act like teachers work 584 hours of over time in a year. As RP mentioned, teachers have plenty of down time to work a part time summer job if they feel they need more money. I do not doubt a number of teachers work hard and put in a lot of hours and are probably under paid. But name one profession that there aren't workers in the same boat.

[Habib]

With coal workers you are talking about safety, that point doesn't really apply here.

 

With woman, there are still some in-equities there, though you should do some actual research on that. A lot of the short comings with women and their salary differential with their male counterparts is the woman's lack of negotiation of a high salary. That's become a statistic, and a pretty amazing one at that.

 

I agree with lbbc. Your argument is of convenience, not of substance.

[martstone]

I said this in the thread a few weeks ago about this subject. I work in the private sector and my salary is based on 2080 hours. If teachers contracts on based on 187 hours as someone mentioned earlier then their salary based on 1496 hours. Now tell me a again how they are underpaid. And let's not act like teachers work 584 hours of over time in a year. As RP mentioned, teachers have plenty of down time to work a part time summer job if they feel they need more money. I do not doubt a number of teachers work hard and put in a lot of hours and are probably under paid. But name one profession that there aren't workers in the same boat.

 

Most of the ones I know put about ten hours a day in. They also average about seventy days off in the summer. So you may want to recalculate their hours. If you don't think they are under paid you could follow one for a couple of weeks, you'll change your mind. Those that lay the blame on unions need to be reminded , if not for unions most of us would still be owned by a company store of some sort. I ,in no way envy a teachers job. God bless them !:thumb:

[ladiesbballcoach]

I said this in the thread a few weeks ago about this subject. I work in the private sector and my salary is based on 2080 hours. If teachers contracts on based on 187 hours as someone mentioned earlier then their salary based on 1496 hours. Now tell me a again how they are underpaid. And let's not act like teachers work 584 hours of over time in a year. As RP mentioned, teachers have plenty of down time to work a part time summer job if they feel they need more money. I do not doubt a number of teachers work hard and put in a lot of hours and are probably under paid. But name one profession that there aren't workers in the same boat.

 

Yeah, that will attract the best and brightest into the profession and sounds like a real smart plan.

 

Be a teacher where you can work as a Walmart greeter in the summer months to supplement your low income.

 

I am sure those top of the line students will be running to join the teaching profession.

 

Sure that will be attracting the kind of teachers you want teaching your kid.

 

For those of you who feel that teachers are overpaid or paid just right, don't be be upset when you get exactly the education you are paying for.

[Clyde]

Yeah, that will attract the best and brightest into the profession and sounds like a real smart plan.

 

Be a teacher where you can work as a Walmart greeter in the summer months to supplement your low income.

 

I am sure those top of the line students will be running to join the teaching profession.

 

Sure that will be attracting the kind of teachers you want teaching your kid.

 

For those of you who feel that teachers are overpaid or paid just right, don't be be upset when you get exactly the education you are paying for.

 

I'm with you, LBBC. I think that type of mathematical analysis completely misses the point and is simple-minded. Are we really saying that we place an high value on our children being educated yet we want to pay our teachers a wage that will almost certainly require them to work part-time in the summer?

 

That makes sense? Who cares how many hours someone works? Every job has a value economically and time spent doing it is low in considering how much value that job has.

 

I'll say it again. As a society, we love to talk the talk but we will NOT walk the walk when it comes to doing what is necessary to both educate our children at a high level AND to attract those that can ensure that it happens.