Teacher Pay?

[pnthr4life]

What statement made about unions in this thread is untrue?

 

The blame being placed on unions. Tell me why the unions are at fault.

[woodsrider]

The blame being placed on unions. Tell me why the unions are at fault.

OK, I will word it differently...

 

What blame being placed on unions in this thread is being wrongfully placed on them?

[pnthr4life]

Its part of the collective bargaining process in all union companies. The union negoiates standard pay rates based on years of service and rank. Teacher's unions also negoitate tenure.

 

Exactly, but that negotiation process is done with reps from the administration as well as the union.

[pnthr4life]

OK, I will word it differently...

 

What blame being placed on unions in this thread is being wrongfully placed on them?

 

The fact that CBA'S are negotiated by both parties. So to place blame completely on the union is unfair.

[HT721]

A thread in the general discussion got me a little fired up (again) and I thought this thread belongs here as govt has to fix it...

 

I am a former school teacher...but for the life of me I cannot figure out why we do not pay our school teachers more money. We are not going to attract the best individuals to the profession when they can make more money managing a Speedway.

 

Also, why do we not pay teachers based on merit? We pay them based on time of service. This is absolutely ridiculous. What other profession does this? You can be the best teacher in school yet make the same or less than the worst. Even the military promotes based on merit. The best lawyers make the most $$$, same for Docs, basically any other professional.

 

What say you?

 

I won't get in to t his too much because we tore this up a few months ago and all we will do is go round and round but I will say that merit pay can't work because no 2 classes are the same and you can't judge a teacher by how their students perform because there are plenty of kids you just can't reach, and how can you punish a teacher in an area with students that don't want to learn by cutting their pay.

[Clyde]

I won't get in to t his too much because we tore this up a few months ago and all we will do is go round and round but I will say that merit pay can't work because no 2 classes are the same and you can't judge a teacher by how their students perform because there are plenty of kids you just can't reach, and how can you punish a teacher in an area with students that don't want to learn by cutting their pay.

 

That's where I was heading with my previously posed question.

 

So, how do you pay a teacher "fairly?"

[HHSDad]

That's where I was heading with my previously posed question.

 

So, how do you pay a teacher "fairly?"

Objective evaluations just don't exist in any company. But I still think its more fair than CBA raises. I also don't like to put a lot of emphasis on quanitative measures because conditions vary. If you're paying any attention at all to your teachers, you know enough to fairly evaluate what kind of job they're doing.

[NEXT]

When you say average 50 hours per week is that for the calendar year or school year?

 

 

In Pike County its 10 months a year.

[Clyde]

Objective evaluations just don't exist in any company. But I still think its more fair than CBA raises. I also don't like to put a lot of emphasis on quanitative measures because conditions vary. If you're paying any attention at all to your teachers, you know enough to fairly evaluate what kind of job they're doing.

 

No offense but that sure is vague. It sounds like a bunch of potential headaches.

 

Who does the evaluating?

 

Is it purely subjective?

 

Can teachers' pay go down?

 

Can we pay math, science, and special education teachers more than business, history, and English due to supply and demand?

 

Lastly, who's paying for this? Taxpayers have consistently shown an aversion to actually doing something about teachers' pay vs simply paying it lip service.

[kypride]

No offense but that sure is vague. It sounds like a bunch of potential headaches.

 

Who does the evaluating?

 

Is it purely subjective?

 

Can teachers' pay go down?

 

Can we pay math, science, and special education teachers more than business, history, and English due to supply and demand?

 

Lastly, who's paying for this? Taxpayers have consistently shown an aversion to actually doing something about teachers' pay vs simply paying it lip service.

 

You sound like the Union.

[HHSDad]

No offense to anyone, but in my experience, those most against merit raises are usually the worst employees. My wife works in a quasi-governmental job. When the directors decided to go with employee evaluations and merit raises, a lot of the employees had a meltdown. They would rather be guaranteed a 2.5% increase than have to earn their raise, which could be twice as high. And yes I know they give out the much higher raise because my wife earns one every year.

[nWo]

No offense to anyone, but in my experience, those most against merit raises are usually the worst employees. My wife works in a quasi-governmental job. When the directors decided to go with employee evaluations and merit raises, a lot of the employees had a meltdown. They would rather be guaranteed a 2.5% increase than have to earn their raise, which could be twice as high. And yes I know they give out the much higher raise because my wife earns one every year.

 

I agree completely. I've seen some what the same thing at the place where I work at.

[leatherneck]

In Pike County its 10 months a year.

 

Wow, that's unusual isn't it? Aren't most teacher contracts for 187 days? And with an average of 25 week days in a month, 187 days would equate to approx 7.48 months.

[gold sunrise]

Managing a Speedway most likely consists of 50+ hours a week 50 weeks a year. Dealing with everything from advertising, ordering, maintenance, Human resources, payroll, customer issues, and cash flow maintenance. I'd say managing a speedway is significantly more difficult than teaching.

 

Ram...sweetie...you have no clue...come job shadow me sometime, I can enlighten you some.

 

I won't get in to t his too much because we tore this up a few months ago and all we will do is go round and round but I will say that merit pay can't work because no 2 classes are the same and you can't judge a teacher by how their students perform because there are plenty of kids you just can't reach, and how can you punish a teacher in an area with students that don't want to learn by cutting their pay.

 

:thumb: Agree

 

Objective evaluations just don't exist in any company. But I still think its more fair than CBA raises. I also don't like to put a lot of emphasis on quanitative measures because conditions vary. If you're paying any attention at all to your teachers, you know enough to fairly evaluate what kind of job they're doing.

 

Key words here. Depends on the school system, but in some the Principal is overwhelmed with discipline problems and school issues to be able to get much time to be observing the teachers in the classrooms. Fair evaluations...in some schools, if you aren't "in " doesn't matter how good you are as a teacher....others that are "in" and spend more time in the office than with their kids in the classrooms...will get the "higher rating" Best way would bring in a team of professioins...that would be their job all over the state....but that cost more $$$. With budget cuts the way they are now...this isn't going to happen.

[Hamilton Joe]

The same problem applies to social workers and other fields requiring advanced degrees and lousey pay. As far as merit pay, you can blame teacher's unions for that.

 

Whether or not teachers are underpaid I suppose is a matter of opinion. The very good teachers who come each day prepared and challenge kids to learn are grossly underpaid. Those that get into it because they like the hours and want summers off or really just got into it to coach and just go through the motions are probably ovepaid but it's like that in every profession..

 

Your comment with regard to merit pay is dead on correct. Just mentioning a merit pay system for teachers and the teachers unions go on the offensive and their lobbyist apply the pressure on our legislatures. Every year the legislature or govenor throw in some raise for all teachers but they don't provide the funds to pay for the increase. If local districts have to pay for the salaries and the increases then it should be left up to them to decide if an increase in salaries is necessary. They leave it up to the schools to figure out how to pay for it. Until teachers are willing to accept a merit pay system then their pay will remain the same.