Teacher Pay?

[RockPride]

Let me talk to you as someone who grew up in a teacher's family.

 

In our home, there was no "12-13 weeks off." I almost laughed when I read that, until I remembered how truly unfunny it is. My father worked straight through all of those luxurious summer breaks you seem to be imagining. In fact, in the early days, he worked days, nights, and weekends to keep us going. My mother worked as well. I won't even go into the hazards involved in the the teaching profession. They are numerous, and grow worse every day.

 

Not sure where you came up with these stereotypical notions -- my guess would be, from 1950's sit-coms. In reality, teachers' pay was, and is no where near what the job deserves.

Like I said, I understand if people are displeased with me. I know 20-30 teachers, and are around them very, very often. Some examples likes yours BF, I can understand. Your father was providing for a big family on a small income. Around here, most of the teachers I know are doing just fine, but don't really have big families. One of my best friends is a special education teacher in Shelby County, and in the summer he does landscaping 40 hours a week. He makes good money for the year, and loves his "free" time during the spring, and Christmas, is gladly willing to sacrifice his summers,for more $$$$.

 

This is a polarizing topic, as are many. Those that are, or grew up in families where the teacher's salary was the prevalent income of record, think they are grossly underpaid. Those of use that didn't, don't see it that way. I don't look for either side to give way.

 

That said, two fields where I think the "talent" is grossly underpaid, is our military, and our police force. How much is our safety worth?

[pigman]

Once lottery money went into the general fund -it did not help education. The only way it would is if it was set up into a seperate account

 

I either misunderstood or was mislead, but my understanding was the lottery was to be used only for education when we voted on it.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Do we really need the best and the brightest as teachers? If so and we are not getting the best and the brightest currently due to teachers being underpaid (which is your point as I understand it) then you'd agree that the associated corollary is that our education system if failing because we have poor teachers in our schools. Is that your analysis? That you and the other current teachers in our schools just aren't getting it done because they are not the best and the brightest?

 

I read somewhere that the average length of a teacher's stay in education is 3.5 years.

 

We get some of the brightest and bests and then they see themselves underpaid for what is required of them and they move onto another occupation.

 

I think I will surprise you by agreeing to some degree with your assessment that you thought would put me into a corner. Would you agree that when a teacher is told that they need to get a parttime job to get up with their bills it is not going to attract the best and brightest? And as important, RETAIN, the best and brightest?

 

In essence your position is a FAILED position.

 

I will also add to the point that the decisions on what is best for educating children is not being made by those who are adept at making decisions on education but rather from political types who are leaned on to make decisions from those who hold opinions like yours.

[ladiesbballcoach]

 

That said, two fields where I think the "talent" is grossly underpaid, is our military, and our police force. How much is our safety worth?

I agree 100%.

[Birdsfan]

BF, what did your father (a very great man by the way) do during the summer? Didn't he take other summer jobs?

Thanks. In the early days, he worked at the the steel mill and drove a summer school bus. Later, he worked (full time) for the schools, doing summer repair work.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I spent plenty of time in high schools, with teachers, etcetera. Look, I am not trying to win any popularity contests with my opinions, but I feel they are just. Teachers have more down time that almost any other profession I know, besides pilots. They are paid a just salary for the amount of time they put in.

 

In all due respect RP and I do truly respect your opinion, but on this one, I really don't think you have a good idea of the amount of time put in by a public school teacher.

 

Especially a new teacher.

 

Granted, I have been teaching the same things for about 15 years and I do not have to put in as much prep time to teach how to write a check as I once did, but during those first 10-12 years when you are really trying to get a handle to create lesson plans that teach, inspire, interest a 15-year old male that only really cares that he can see the thong of the 17-year old girl sitting 3 seats up, you put in a lot of time developing them.

 

Now, I pull them up and see if I need to tweak them or find more updated examples but I do not have to create it from scratch like I did back in the beginning of my teaching.

 

 

But that is HS where you stay in a single subject for a long while.

 

IN elementary, you switch from 5th grade to K sometimes and you are back to square one. My wife has taught in 5 different areas and each time starts with zero lesson plans and has to create it all from scratch.

 

Simply put, if you are calcualting hours, you cannot limit it to 8:00 when the school day begins and 3:00 when the busses roll out.

[Birdsfan]

Simply put, if you are calcualting hours, you cannot limit it to 8:00 when the school day begins and 3:00 when the busses roll out.

They must think those lesson plans get written...tests get written...tests get printed...worksheets get written...worksheets get printed...tests get graded...essays get proofread...reports get written...grades get recorded...and report cards get written, sorted, and stuffed by magical elves!

[ladiesbballcoach]

They must think those lesson plans get written...tests get written...tests get printed...worksheets get written...worksheets get printed...tests get graded...essays get read...reports get written...grades get recorded...and report cards get written, sorted, and stuffed by magical elves!

 

A big difference in a normal career and teaching.

 

You have a project to do and you get paid time during the day to work on that project.

 

My wife had a 20-minute planning time PER DAY. THat was 20 minutes to do all that BF has listed above.

 

A teacher's day is working with the students. THE BIG PROJECT. Preparing for that big project happens after the school day is over in most cases.

[Hearsay]

Before I add more, in all the threads we have ever had on this topic, I have never heard a teacher articulate exactly what they feel they should be paid. I would like for one to identify that for me, at least by comparing their position with some professional position they believe they should be commensurate with.

 

"We should get paid what we are worth" is a cop-out. Pretend you are interviewing and I have asked for your salary requirements. Articulate it for me.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Before I add more, in all the threads we have ever had on this topic, I have never heard a teacher articulate exactly what they feel they should be paid. I would like for one to identify that for me, at least by comparing their position with some professional position they believe they should be commensurate with.

 

"We should get paid what we are worth" is a cop-out. Pretend you are interviewing and I have asked for your salary requirements. Articulate it for me.

 

Never been to the point that it was realistic to think about that.

 

But you pose a good question.

 

My first instinct to say a typical business manager who is charge of like responsiblies that teachers are in charge of.

 

I personally know that I took a $10,000 cut in pay going from a JCPenny Management TRAINEE to become a teacher.

 

After about 20 years, the difference at that time in 1990 was going to be about $25,000 per year.

 

Now I chose that move and don't regret it. I love teaching and the benefits that go with it.

 

With not much research or thought put into your request and I know that in some areas of the country or maybe in the state, the salaries are along these lines, I am simply addressing NKY.

 

New teachers in ballpark of $30,000.

10 years of experience should have moved up to $50,000 range.

20 years of experience should have moved up to $75,000 range.

 

I know for a fact that my aunt's retirement salary as a retired Ohio educator is more than I make as an active KY teacher. SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. In fact, my wife and my salary combined beat her out by only a few thousand.

[Birdsfan]

"We should get paid what we are worth" is a cop-out.

So, not providing information that was NOT asked for, is considered a "cop out?"

 

I don't think anyone in this thread has been asked what they think they should make. Are they all coping out too?

[SilverShadow]

I ask again, what is the value of compensation of having tenure and the excellent retirement system?

[ladiesbballcoach]

I ask again, what is the value of compensation of having tenure and the excellent retirement system?

 

Tenure is simply I cannot be fired because the principal does not like me even though I am an excellent teacher or I cannot be let go and the district save $10,000 by keeping a new teacher over me with 20 years of experience.

 

If I am a poor teacher, I can be fired with or without tenure.

 

The retirement system of which I contribute to is excellent. I guess, I am not retired and don't know much about it.

[woodsrider]

Never been to the point that it was realistic to think about that.

 

But you pose a good question.

 

My first instinct to say a typical business manager who is charge of like responsiblies that teachers are in charge of.

 

I personally know that I took a $10,000 cut in pay going from a JCPenny Management TRAINEE to become a teacher.

 

After about 20 years, the difference at that time in 1990 was going to be about $25,000 per year.

 

Now I chose that move and don't regret it. I love teaching and the benefits that go with it.

 

With not much research or thought put into your request and I know that in some areas of the country or maybe in the state, the salaries are along these lines, I am simply addressing NKY.

 

New teachers in ballpark of $30,000.

10 years of experience should have moved up to $50,000 range.

20 years of experience should have moved up to $75,000 range.

 

I know for a fact that my aunt's retirement salary as a retired Ohio educator is more than I make as an active KY teacher. SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. In fact, my wife and my salary combined beat her out by only a few thousand.

You tried this in another thread and it just doesn't fly. You cannot compare a teacher to a store manager at a department store. It you want to compare them to department heads then fine but teacher=store manager just isn't apples to apples.

[ladiesbballcoach]

You tried this in another thread and it just doesn't fly. You cannot compare a teacher to a store manager at a department store. It you want to compare them to department heads then fine but teacher=store manager just isn't apples to apples.

 

You forgot IMHO.

 

Hearsay asked what do I think it should be.

 

Are you saying I am not allowed to have my opinion in answering Hearsay's question?