Teacher Pay?

[SilverShadow]

And how do you propose these higher salaries get paid? As a taxpayer, I pay more than enough and am not interested in higher taxes to pay teachers more! This will represent 90% of the people who would be needed to support this effort.

 

Further, tenure protects more bad, tenfold than the creative set of circumstances that make it a valid point. Also, with tenure I noticed you failed to mention a teacher has an appeal process that is significantly favored towards the teacher.

 

I notice the average starting pay for a first year teacher with no prior experience, in NorKY the average is nearly $35,000. Right out of college at age 21 and can work until they are nearly 50 and can retire with an estimated annual retirement of about $60,000. Working 187 days per year.

 

I am afraid you are not going to find many people interested in really pushing up that scale.

[SilverShadow]

If you earnestly believe the bolded, then there really is nowhere left to go, because you have had a break from reality.

 

 

Very true.

[SilverShadow]

Teachers are not subject to the employee-at-will doctrine ("absent contract or a legally recognized exception, and employee can be fired at any time, for any reason, even for a reason others may consider objectionable, unfair, or morally repugnant."). Almost everybody else is. Why?

 

Teachers retirements are not subject to invasion/division. Ever seen a teacher retirement divided in a divorce case? No, you haven't because a state statute protects it. Noone else, not even soldiers or police officers, have this. Why?

 

And this is not worth any value????????

[ladiesbballcoach]

And how do you propose these higher salaries get paid? As a taxpayer, I pay more than enough and am not interested in higher taxes to pay teachers more! This will represent 90% of the people who would be needed to support this effort.

 

Further, tenure protects more bad, tenfold than the creative set of circumstances that make it a valid point. Also, with tenure I noticed you failed to mention a teacher has an appeal process that is significantly favored towards the teacher.

 

I notice the average starting pay for a first year teacher with no prior experience, in NorKY the average is nearly $35,000. Right out of college at age 21 and can work until they are nearly 50 and can retire with an estimated annual retirement of about $60,000. Working 187 days per year.

 

I am afraid you are not going to find many people interested in really pushing up that scale.

 

Then on the border counties expect to continue to lose good quality teachers who can drive across the river and make 10 to 20 thousand more per year.

[leatherneck]

Then on the border counties expect to continue to lose good quality teachers who can drive across the river and make 10 to 20 thousand more per year.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear that all the time from teachers as leverage to get higher salaries. Yet some how, those schools in border counties (at least in N. Ky which I am most familiar with) seem to continue to have some pretty darn good teachers. I'm sorry, but I believe we have pretty darn good teachers in our school system. Our "problem" in our education system is not the quality of teachers. Its some parents and kids that still don't seem to "get" the importance of the grade school and secondary education. And I don't care how good of a teacher you have in a class, if the kids don't give a hoot about their education, they aren't going to get an education. And with our current welfare system which allows unmotivated people to people able to survive and get by, that mentality is going to remain in place for some people. Tell them that they are going to starve to death if they can't get a good job because they placed zero importance on their education, and only then will things change. We don't need our teachers to motivate kids to be educated, we don't need our teachers to act as surrogate parents. We need our teachers to educate.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear that all the time from teachers as leverage to get higher salaries. Yet some how, those schools in border counties (at least in N. Ky which I am most familiar with) seem to continue to have some pretty darn good teachers. I'm sorry, but I believe we have pretty darn good teachers in our school system. Our "problem" in our education system is not the quality of teachers. Its some parents and kids that still don't seem to "get" the importance of the grade school and secondary education. And I don't care how good of a teacher you have in a class, if the kids don't give a hoot about their education, they aren't going to get an education. And with our current welfare system which allows unmotivated people to people able to survive and get by, that mentality is going to remain in place for some people. Tell them that they are going to starve to death if they can't get a good job because they placed zero importance on their education, and only then will things change. We don't need our teachers to motivate kids to be educated, we don't need our teachers to act as surrogate parents. We need our teachers to educate.

 

And yet those same teachers will be held accountable for the kids learning whether they care about the importance of learning or not.

[leatherneck]

And yet those same teachers will be held accountable for the kids learning whether they care about the importance of learning or not.

 

Those teachers and administrators will be held accountable, will they not? And its the administrators, not the teachers, job to get the parents more involved in their children's education. The teachers should be there to teach those kids interested in getting their education. Period.

 

I think we need to totally rethink our philosophy of educating kids. Currently we beg kids to learn, we coddle them and cater to them and try to come up with all kinds of creative ways to encourage kids to learn. I think we should sit the kids down in the 7th grade or so and basically look them in the eye and say we are not going to force them to learn. We aren't going to come up with games and crazy ideas to get them interested in education. Rather, they have to interested in their education. We'll help them, but we are not going to do it for them. And if they are not interested in getting an education so they can get a meaningful and providing job, then show them pictures of people that don't have an education. Show them testimonials of people that dropped out of school or failed to pay attention to their education. Show them the jobs that they will likely be forced to get if they don't get a solid education. Sum it up with "you make the choice of what you want to rest of your life to look like". We'll help you but you have to want it. And if that doesn't work, well its a tough cruel world out there (well, if we can eliminate many of the entitlement programs it would be). Maybe when they have children they will advise their kids to do better than they did. If not, well what's that old saying: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink.

[pnthr4life]

I couldn't agree with you more LN, but in today's society that just isn't going to happen. Kids today are pampered and coddled in every aspect of life, whether it be academics or athletics. You have no idea how I wish this weren't the case, however, it is and it's unfortunately only going to get worse.

[Birdsfan]

I'm sorry, but I believe we have pretty darn good teachers in our school system. Our "problem" in our education system is not the quality of teachers. Its some parents and kids that still don't seem to "get" the importance of the grade school and secondary education. And I don't care how good of a teacher you have in a class, if the kids don't give a hoot about their education, they aren't going to get an education. And with our current welfare system which allows unmotivated people to people able to survive and get by, that mentality is going to remain in place for some people. Tell them that they are going to starve to death if they can't get a good job because they placed zero importance on their education, and only then will things change. We don't need our teachers to motivate kids to be educated, we don't need our teachers to act as surrogate parents. We need our teachers to educate.

Amen to that! :ylsuper:

[Birdsfan]

If you earnestly believe the bolded, then there really is nowhere left to go, because you have had a break from reality.

How could you honestly believe otherwise? :eek: I can only assume it's a matter of not being familiar with what really goes on in the profession.

[Hearsay]

How could you honestly believe otherwise? :eek: I can only assume it's a matter of not being familiar with what really goes on in the profession.

 

No, quite the contrary.

[pigman]

LN statement about parenting is dead on. The only problem is the lack of parenting is probably the biggest problem in eduaction. If parents would reenforce what little discipline is allowed at schools a teachers job would be much easier. Like has been said on here befor when I got punished at school what happened at home was usually worse. I think for the most part that doesn't happen anymore. I know this is a little off topic, but if all teachers had to do was teach then their job would be much easier.

[SilverShadow]

Then on the border counties expect to continue to lose good quality teachers who can drive across the river and make 10 to 20 thousand more per year.

 

And a teacher upon retirement can double dip across the river but very few ever do. A chance to double their household income but they elect to work a sub or some other part time gig. They all seem satisfied once they hit the retirement mark at an early age.

 

I do not see the flight of education talent. As a matter of fact how many job openings are there vs. job applicants? What you suggest is really not based on true facts. But if it was, what is the tax base for the poorest funded school district in Ohio? Perhaps 35% better than the best NorKY district?

 

Last I was told it was a buyer's market. Has been for some time and will continue to be.

 

I also do not accept the premise a teacher leaving is exclusively a good quality teacher. If what you say is true it does not say much for those who are here now. I don't buy that.

 

At the end of the day, all your points will not increase the paycheck.

[SilverShadow]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear that all the time from teachers as leverage to get higher salaries. Yet some how, those schools in border counties (at least in N. Ky which I am most familiar with) seem to continue to have some pretty darn good teachers. I'm sorry, but I believe we have pretty darn good teachers in our school system. Our "problem" in our education system is not the quality of teachers. Its some parents and kids that still don't seem to "get" the importance of the grade school and secondary education. And I don't care how good of a teacher you have in a class, if the kids don't give a hoot about their education, they aren't going to get an education. And with our current welfare system which allows unmotivated people to people able to survive and get by, that mentality is going to remain in place for some people. Tell them that they are going to starve to death if they can't get a good job because they placed zero importance on their education, and only then will things change. We don't need our teachers to motivate kids to be educated, we don't need our teachers to act as surrogate parents. We need our teachers to educate.

 

Bottom line.

 

LN.... what I find most interesting with many districts is their policies and procedures reflect the operations of what, when and where. Student manuals for consequences to actions and expectations. But, nowhere do you find an expectation statement or declaration telling the parents what is EXPECTED of them as parents. Schools should pick a fight and TELL a parent what is expected. So what if it makes them mad. Parents will not change until a change agent tells them to.

[leatherneck]

Bottom line.

 

LN.... what I find most interesting with many districts is their policies and procedures reflect the operations of what, when and where. Student manuals for consequences to actions and expectations. But, nowhere do you find an expectation statement or declaration telling the parents what is EXPECTED of them as parents. Schools should pick a fight and TELL a parent what is expected. So what if it makes them mad. Parents will not change until a change agent tells them to.

 

 

Bingo my friend. Spot on.