Teacher Pay?

[RockPride]

In the two significant threads on the subject, I can think of maybe 3 posters who claim they are overpaid.

 

I was just going to post...and I saw this...I tell my co-workers this all the time, but I feel that I am grossly overpaid for the work I do. I think that is mainly because I love my job, and am lucky to be paid rather well to do it.

 

Another argument that I have grown tired of, is the "you don't know how many hours teachers really put it" argument. YES, I do, I spend a lot of my time around teachers and see it. Many of you teachers dis-respect the amount of time those of us in the private sector spend on our work away from our daily jobs.

[ladiesbballcoach]

In many professions that pay higher than education, people can be fired because the management/manager does not like them. Why shouldn't management have that right??? Many people (engineers and computer programers) have lost their jobs because someone would do their job for a lot less money. Why shouldn't managers have that option? Do you not comprehend the vast majority of taxpayers live under this circumstance? And you wonder why people fail to appreciate your arguements when you fail to see how many would say "The real world" lives?

 

Also, you need to be consistent. In the first sentance you said tenure is simply you cannot be fired because the principal does not like you. Then you go on to say you can be fired with or without tenure if you are a poor teacher. I am sure you are not trying to mislead us into thinking there is no value to tenure. If there is no value to it, then why is it so important to your profession to obtain it and protect it at all costs. If the principal does not like you who should be the one to make sure to get along with the principal? How many of your fellow teachers simply thump their noses to expectations and changes because of the shield of tenure?

 

As for not knowing your retirement system, all I can say is wow. When you need it and it is not enough I sure hope you do not think it is anyone else's responsibility to take care of you then.

 

Hey, look bottom line you want to keep the status quo in place? Fine by many. But what you will never see is substantial improvement to compensation under the current set up. No taxpaying public will support a significant cost obligation and keep getting the same outcome.

 

I can give you a great example.

 

Two teachers up for the same coaching position.

 

One does not get it and is livid. They run down the coach any chance they get and works behind the scenes to make the coaches job difficult.

 

Now the one that did not get it, is hired as principal and is holding a grudge against the coach.

 

Tenure protects the coach/teacher from just getting fired for no reason.

 

Who said anything about putting all my eggs in one basket for retirement? I am not doing that. I very little say on what goes on in the KRTS. They take out what they are supposed to take out and do with it what they are supposed to do.

 

Now, my additional retirement features, I know what is going on there.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Teachers are not subject to the employee-at-will doctrine ("absent contract or a legally recognized exception, and employee can be fired at any time, for any reason, even for a reason others may consider objectionable, unfair, or morally repugnant."). Almost everybody else is. Why?

 

Teachers retirements are not subject to invasion/division. Ever seen a teacher retirement divided in a divorce case? No, you haven't because a state statute protects it. Noone else, not even soldiers or police officers, have this. Why?

 

Are teachers available for unemployment?

[Birdsfan]

The defensiveness, which is crystal clear to me, is when someone has the unmitigated temerity to claim that a tenure system has value, a guaranteed retirement has value, that school break vacations, whether fully utilized or not, has value, or that teachers don't work more hours or less than your average professional, who takes home just as much work and deals with just as many expectations or problems.

Teachers work more hours, have more expectations and face more problems than most professionals. The break issue (as explained), is a joke, guaranteed retirement is an even bigger joke.

 

So I wouldn't calll it "unmitigated temerity." I'd call it, "unmitigated foolishness."

[Hearsay]

Teachers work more hours, have more expectations and face more problems than most professionals. The break issue (as explained), is a joke, guaranteed retirement is an even bigger joke.

 

So I wouldn't calll it "unmitigated temerity." I'd call it, "unmitigated foolishness."

 

If you earnestly believe the bolded, then there really is nowhere left to go, because you have had a break from reality.

[ladiesbballcoach]

If you earnestly believe the bolded, then there really is nowhere left to go, because you have had a break from reality.

 

I think your profession understands but in many, many professions, there is no comparison on expectations or problems that are faced.

 

NO WAY the manager at McDonald's, Autozone, or even GABP has the problems or expectations that teachers face.

 

Look at the test scores that we are being demanded to put up when comparision against other countries. ALL of our students are tested and we are to have that number up against other countries who ONLY test their top students. ALL of ours versus only the tops of theirs and we are expected to compete against that.

[RockPride]

I think your profession understands but in many, many professions, there is no comparison on expectations or problems that are faced.

 

NO WAY the manager at McDonald's, Autozone, or even GABP has the problems or expectations that teachers face.

 

Look at the test scores that we are being demanded to put up when comparision against other countries. ALL of our students are tested and we are to have that number up against other countries who ONLY test their top students. ALL of ours versus only the tops of theirs and we are expected to compete against that.

 

This argument is getting tired. While it is a double edged sword, there are others helping you all to do the work as well. While, I feel that there are teachers in some inner cities that have a miserable thankless job, and yet they do it. There are some teachers on here, while brilliant, that have gotten to enjoy teaching in a positive enviroment day in and day out. All the while the economy doesn't really effect your job, while it has a huge impact on a lot of us.

[Hearsay]

I think your profession understands but in many, many professions, there is no comparison on expectations or problems that are faced.

 

NO WAY the manager at McDonald's, Autozone, or even GABP has the problems or expectations that teachers face.

 

Look at the test scores that we are being demanded to put up when comparision against other countries. ALL of our students are tested and we are to have that number up against other countries who ONLY test their top students. ALL of ours versus only the tops of theirs and we are expected to compete against that.

 

I just don't agree, LBBC. I admire and respect teachers a great deal, I have a genuine appreciation for what they do and the importance of the role that they play, but I have a great deal of experience with teachers and with private sector professionals and I am just not going to be sold that the rigors and demands of teaching are quantitatively or qualitatively greater than private sector jobs, including McDonald's, AutoZone, or GABP.

[hoopboy]

A thread in the general discussion got me a little fired up (again) and I thought this thread belongs here as govt has to fix it...

 

I am a former school teacher...but for the life of me I cannot figure out why we do not pay our school teachers more money. We are not going to attract the best individuals to the profession when they can make more money managing a Speedway.

 

Also, why do we not pay teachers based on merit? We pay them based on time of service. This is absolutely ridiculous. What other profession does this? You can be the best teacher in school yet make the same or less than the worst. Even the military promotes based on merit. The best lawyers make the most $$$, same for Docs, basically any other professional.

 

What say you?

 

Some teachers have certain advantages, class sizes, type of student, but I'm sure you already know this since you taught school.

[hoopboy]

I just don't agree, LBBC. I admire and respect teachers a great deal, I have a genuine appreciation for what they do and the importance of the role that they play, but I have a great deal of experience with teachers and with private sector professionals and I am just not going to be sold that the rigors and demands of teaching are quantitatively or qualitatively greater than private sector jobs, including McDonald's, AutoZone, or GABP.

 

I thought the same thing until I started teaching, and trust me, you don't know how stressful teaching is.

[Hearsay]

I thought the same thing until I started teaching, and trust me, you don't know how stressful teaching is.

 

I'm fully aware of how stressful teaching can be.

[rockmom]

I think your profession understands but in many, many professions, there is no comparison on expectations or problems that are faced.

You want to compare the two salary wise, yet I contend that you are not aware of the challenges that many in the private sector face as well. Teachers' challenges are well documented, discussed, debated. They're in the newspaper, threads on message boards discuss them.....

 

NO WAY the manager at McDonald's, Autozone, or even GABP has the problems or expectations that teachers face.

I'm happen to know exactly the problems and expectations that a manager at McDonald's faces, because a good friend of mine is one. You know the issues you face in the classroom? Well, he has the same issues in his workplace, employing those students you have. Guess what....the same crap goes on there, only they expect to be paid for it. And, I'm pretty sure the manager at McDonald's doesn't get paid what you get paid. And, maybe you don't priortize the expectations of McDonald's on their managers as higher than what you perceive the expectations to be of you by the state, but I can tell you....they're high, and they're as stressful as yours.

 

There is simply no way to make an apples to apples comparison of a teaching job and any other job in the private sector. But, please try to look beyond your own challenges and realize that the jobs in the private sector that you feel are so much more cushy and better paid have their own set of problems, challenges and yet far fewer of the benefits you enjoy.

 

Look at the test scores that we are being demanded to put up when comparision against other countries. ALL of our students are tested and we are to have that number up against other countries who ONLY test their top students. ALL of ours versus only the tops of theirs and we are expected to compete against that.

 

Don't blame the system on the taxpayers or the private sector. Put the blame where it belongs.

 

I have an enormous amount of respect for teachers, but please don't try and tell me that you can accuarately determine the challenges of a job in the private sector and know whether or not those challenges are less than those you face. They're different, but no less than yours.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Let me be clear on something as teacher's take heat on supposedly whining about salary...

 

I will not leave my profession because of my low salary.

While I feel we deserve to be paid more, I am comfortable with what I make. I have come to grips with it, might be a better way to word it.

 

I do think that teachers, social workers, fireman, police officers, military deserve higher pay and I will continue to hold that position and will fight for that position.

 

But for those who want to read into that position as whining or unhappy with my profession, I am comfortable in where I am in life. But I don't define my importance by salary, even though I think teachers and others deserve more.

[rockmom]

For clarification:

 

I do not feel that the challenges that teachers face are less challenging than those in the private sector.

 

I do feel it's ridiculous to base a teacher's salary expectation on what someone with a comparable education would get in the private sector.

 

Both the teaching profession and professions have their own rewards, benefits, challenges and pitfalls. Comparing the two is like comparing a subset of barnyard animals to a subset of farmer's market fruit. There is barely anything to compare.

[ladiesbballcoach]

For clarification:

 

I do not feel that the challenges that teachers face are less challenging than those in the private sector.

 

I do feel it's ridiculous to base a teacher's salary expectation on what someone with a comparable education would get in the private sector.

 

Both the teaching profession and professions have their own rewards, benefits, challenges and pitfalls. Comparing the two is like comparing a subset of barnyard animals to a subset of farmer's market fruit. There is barely anything to compare.

 

When did we start talking about the posters in P & R????:sssh::lol: