We have a Vaccine

[theguru]

11 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Low bar for vaccine designation? There is no gray area on what is or isn't a vaccine. Not debatable. Some vaccines provide a longer term of protection than others but a vaccine is a vaccine.

Clearly some vaccines are far more effective than others. 

[Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, theguru said:

Clearly some vaccines are far more effective than others. 

True that.

[Bluegrasscard]

I think this has really jumped the shark in terms of "new variants".  Now in SF there is "Delta Plus". 

To combat it the pharmas will probably have "Clotshot Super Plus".  It will be available at Walgreens, CVS, McDonalds, Wendy's, Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot and homeless people on the corner. 

It will need to be stored at 70 below zero, or zero or in a refrigerator or a cooler or at whatever temperature it is outside.  And may need two shots or 3 or 4 or one every 6 months. 

Sorry for sarcasm on this but its really feeling like this has gotten out of hand.

[Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

I think this has really jumped the shark in terms of "new variants".  Now in SF there is "Delta Plus". 

To combat it the pharmas will probably have "Clotshot Super Plus".  It will be available at Walgreens, CVS, McDonalds, Wendy's, Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot and homeless people on the corner. 

It will need to be stored at 70 below zero, or zero or in a refrigerator or a cooler or at whatever temperature it is outside.  And may need two shots or 3 or 4 or one every 6 months. 

Sorry for sarcasm on this but its really feeling like this has gotten out of hand.

And all the madness has little to do with the science of a highly effective vaccine given safely to more than 4 billion people. The twists and turns in the vaccine saga have been fascinating. There are people who ranted against the vaccine now ranting about people who won't get the vaccine. People who preached herd immunity fighting tooth and nail not to achieve it. 

I was a huge proponent of wearing masks. Now I am opposed. With the vaccine available to anyone and every one, I say no more mask rules and let everyone deal with the consequences of their choice. Survival of the fittest. But that could change. If the variants don't take care of this before we get to deaths of young people who can't get vaccinated, then mask back on. It is fluid. The rules a year ago and 6 months ago and today are probably different than what they will be 6 months from now.

[Bluegrasscard]

5 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

And all the madness has little to do with the science of a highly effective vaccine given safely to more than 4 billion people. The twists and turns in the vaccine saga have been fascinating. There are people who ranted against the vaccine now ranting about people who won't get the vaccine. People who preached herd immunity fighting tooth and nail not to achieve it. 

I was a huge proponent of wearing masks. Now I am opposed. With the vaccine available to anyone and every one, I say no more mask rules and let everyone deal with the consequences of their choice. Survival of the fittest. But that could change. If the variants don't take care of this before we get to deaths of young people who can't get vaccinated, then mask back on. It is fluid. The rules a year ago and 6 months ago and today are probably different than what they will be 6 months from now.

I just can not reconcile calling what is going on "highly effective". 

The simplest example seems to be Gibraltar.  Statistically 100% vaxxed in March.  Now, 4 months later, they are at CDC level 4 ranking.  

It seems the vaxx's have failed in achieving the goals of vaccine in all categories.  They do not prevent infection; they do not prevent individual to individual spread; they do not prevent community spread (see above).  Supposedly their sole benefit at this point is - lessens an individuals symptoms.  Is that worth the risk of experimental, unapproved, mostly untested (no animal tests, blind studies sabotaged by companies)"vax"? 

If there is only individual benefit to the vax, why all the mandates (that violate the Nuremberg code)?  Why would employer mandate something that has no population benefit? 

 

 

[Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Bluegrasscard said:

I just can not reconcile calling what is going on "highly effective". 

The simplest example seems to be Gibraltar.  Statistically 100% vaxxed in March.  Now, 4 months later, they are at CDC level 4 ranking.  

It seems the vaxx's have failed in achieving the goals of vaccine in all categories.  They do not prevent infection; they do not prevent individual to individual spread; they do not prevent community spread (see above).  Supposedly their sole benefit at this point is - lessens an individuals symptoms.  Is that worth the risk of experimental, unapproved, mostly untested (no animal tests, blind studies sabotaged by companies)"vax"? 

If there is only individual benefit to the vax, why all the mandates (that violate the Nuremberg code)?  Why would employer mandate something that has no population benefit? 

 

 

I have said this since the beginning of this pandemic. The thing that matters is deaths. If the vaccine prevents and greatly reduces deaths, then COVID truly is the flu. That means back to normal in the US. The vaccines have done that. The US was down below 200 deaths per day a couple weeks ago. Yes, this vaccine is very highly effective at preventing deaths from COVID. Gibraltar cases have increased but you know how many deaths? One. Since February 28, one death from COVID. There is proof of vaccine effectiveness for you.

As to untested, there has never been a more tested vaccine in history. There are now 4.2 billion vaccinated people in the world. I believe the most tested vaccine before this one had 1.3 million test subjects. To say this vaccine is untested is ridiculous. And the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines did do animal studies on their vaccine. There were blind studies done. Thousands and thousands of people volunteered to be tested and many of them got placebos as part of blind studies. 

What I find hypocritical is the people claiming they need final approval are the same people who will trust that final approval the least. Just another bogus argument that people buy into from the Pied Pipers in social media who are leading them over the cliff. Here is my conspiracy theory - these bogus arguments are being drummed up by the Russians and fed to the lemmings here in the US through social media.

Here's what I don't get. Why don't people check information out before liking it, believing it, spreading it to others, etc. We all know how much baloney there is out there. Half the stuff in your post was easily found false by a simple check on google. Yet you posted away here. Why didn't you check it out before posting? Whatever source you are using for your information, do yourself a favor and stop listening because they are feeding you lies.

[TheDeuce]

12 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

It seems the vaxx's have failed in achieving the goals of vaccine in all categories.  They do not prevent infection; they do not prevent individual to individual spread; they do not prevent community spread (see above).  Supposedly their sole benefit at this point is - lessens an individuals symptoms.  Is that worth the risk of experimental, unapproved, mostly untested (no animal tests, blind studies sabotaged by companies)"vax"? 

The purpose has always been limiting serious illness and death. People have chosen to morph the purpose into whatever fits their agenda. 

The vaccine in no way has been a failure. It’s been an overwhelming success.

[Bluegrasscard]

10 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

I

....

Here's what I don't get. Why don't people check information out before liking it, believing it, spreading it to others, etc. We all know how much baloney there is out there. Half the stuff in your post was easily found false by a simple check on google. Yet you posted away here. Why didn't you check it out before posting? Whatever source you are using for your information, do yourself a favor and stop listening because they are feeding you lies.

I will assume that "half" included the "sabotaged studies". 

Here is the sources:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776787

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/969143015/long-term-studies-of-covid-19-vaccines-hurt-by-placebo-recipients-getting-immuni

Basically, there will be no actual long term placebo-based studies - as is the standard in the industry.  They declared victory after relatively short order and vaccinated the study group.   Some say its unethical to keep the study going.  But this is from an industry that lets people die while taking placebos so that they can show how good it was for those receiving the real thing.  They do not change the rules halfway in.  However, in this case the participates can drop out of the study if they want and get the vaxx outside the study.   So they always had control if they wanted. 

There are definitely other studies only in progress or just starting. 

This one concerns me.  A simple study on the vaxx's effect on pregnancies.  The study is estimated to be done in....2024.   We maybe testing on supposedly 4B people  but 9 women can not make a baby in a month.  Somethings take time.  Establishing the real safety of any new drug, vaccine, etc. takes time.  That is an absolute.  Or it should be. 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04958304

Yet, there continuing and growing pressure to mass vaccinate, regardless of risk, age, future child-bearing status.  This is still an experimental therapy.  It will remain as such for a number of years.  Why there is rush declare it differently is confounding. 

 

Deaths are down or almost non-existent.  Is the vaxx?   Is it effective treatments?    Is it because the mutations are less lethal?   I have been told that UF (Florida) medical went from 10 COVID hospitalizations to 120.  Some vaxxed, some not.  But zero deaths since May. 

 

 

[swamprat]

2 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

I will assume that "half" included the "sabotaged studies". 

Here is the sources:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776787

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/969143015/long-term-studies-of-covid-19-vaccines-hurt-by-placebo-recipients-getting-immuni

Basically, there will be no actual long term placebo-based studies - as is the standard in the industry.  They declared victory after relatively short order and vaccinated the study group.   Some say its unethical to keep the study going.  But this is from an industry that lets people die while taking placebos so that they can show how good it was for those receiving the real thing.  They do not change the rules halfway in.  However, in this case the participates can drop out of the study if they want and get the vaxx outside the study.   So they always had control if they wanted. 

There are definitely other studies only in progress or just starting. 

This one concerns me.  A simple study on the vaxx's effect on pregnancies.  The study is estimated to be done in....2024.   We maybe testing on supposedly 4B people  but 9 women can not make a baby in a month.  Somethings take time.  Establishing the real safety of any new drug, vaccine, etc. takes time.  That is an absolute.  Or it should be. 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04958304

Yet, there continuing and growing pressure to mass vaccinate, regardless of risk, age, future child-bearing status.  This is still an experimental therapy.  It will remain as such for a number of years.  Why there is rush declare it differently is confounding. 

 

Deaths are down or almost non-existent.  Is the vaxx?   Is it effective treatments?    Is it because the mutations are less lethal?   I have been told that UF (Florida) medical went from 10 COVID hospitalizations to 120.  Some vaxxed, some not.  But zero deaths since May. 

 

 

As you guys know, I do not watch the news and do not pull my information from nationally published sources, so I don't know what is going on in Kentucky. However, I know what is going on here currently and hospitalization for COVID in the Tampa Bay area is much worse than at any point in this pandemic. The hospital ICUs are overrun at this moment.

This is a quote I received yesterday, "We have critical care patients on medical floors with nurses not fully trained to care for them because there are no more beds and no more nurses."  

I asked if this was worse than last year. "This is much much worse than last year.  I have never seen this many CC patients in beds that aren’t set up to manage them.  It is the same, everywhere."

As of yesterday, 89% of the patients in critical care were unvaccinated or had just gotten their first dose, leaving the remaining 11% as being fully vaccinated. Of those fully vaccinated, all were either elderly or had a compromised systems. The vase majority of the unvaccinated patients ages ranged from 22-59 with no preexisting conditions to contribute to the effects of the illness. 

Personally, I know of 10 people who are currently battling the disease. 3 of those have been vaccinated. 1 of those 3 has gotten it for the second time. The last time she had it was last summer, before the vaccinations were released for use. 

I know there have been deaths, but I have no numbers.

[swamprat]

I was hospitalize twice in late April for a non-COVID event. At no time was I asked if I had been vaccinated or how long it had been since my second shot (it matters in the case of the Pfizer and Moderna). I was asked if I had had a flu shot. I found that kind of odd. 

I was also asked if I was currently participating in an ongoing medical drug trial. I responded with yes, I have been vaccinated for COVID-19. 😎

[CincySportsFan]

On 8/4/2021 at 5:13 PM, theguru said:

Moonbird!  I love that place.

Actually, I was thinking of Beans.  But, I believe there were several others involved in the lawsuit, so Moonbird could've been one of them.  I think Florence Speedway might have been another.

[Voice of Reason]

RIP Dick Farrel.

https://www.wptv.com/lifestyle/taste-and-see/vocal-anti-vaccine-broadcaster-dies-from-covid-19-complications

Prayers to his family, and that others will heed his words and guidance as he approached death.

[Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

RIP Dick Farrel.

South Florida radio talk show host and Newsmax personality passes from COVID at age 65 after a three week battle. 

https://www.wptv.com/lifestyle/taste-and-see/vocal-anti-vaccine-broadcaster-dies-from-covid-19-complications

Prayers to his family, and that others will heed his words and guidance as he approached death.

Additional info included above. 

[Randy Parker]

On 8/7/2021 at 3:59 PM, Voice of Reason said:

I was a huge proponent of wearing masks. Now I am opposed. With the vaccine available to anyone and every one, I say no more mask rules and let everyone deal with the consequences of their choice. Survival of the fittest. But that could change. If the variants don't take care of this before we get to deaths of young people who can't get vaccinated, then mask back on. It is fluid. The rules a year ago and 6 months ago and today are probably different than what they will be 6 months from now.

This is where I am at.

[theguru]

This is an informative video that tells us masks don't work, vaccines don't stop infection/spread, the official advice/mandates we are getting are wrong, shots cause more side effects in people with natural immunity, and people shouldn't be treated any differently depending on their vaccination status. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSVsKdBjeYc/?utm_medium=copy_link&fbclid=IwAR3YwU2ja4zRhSl-YDJ7PL_CCJZ3X8ZKfnm9-JxknCPSST7q-JQr72Wmk1k