Just now, TheDeuce said:

You’re assuming the vaccine will do some irreparable damage, without also assuming bad habits can do the same. 

I am saying the vaccine comes with unknown risks that may be permanent. 

4 minutes ago, theguru said:

I am saying the vaccine comes with unknown risks that may be permanent. 

Bad habits come with KNOWN risks that are permanent and people still partake. 

9 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

Bad habits come with KNOWN risks that are permanent and people still partake. 

At least those bad habits are a choice.

The largest vaccine trial in history is now over 4.2 billion doses world wide and about a year into the trial. 

2 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

The largest vaccine trial in history is now over 4.2 billion doses world wide and about a year into the trial. 

I suppose this makes the unvaccinated as the control group? ?

1 hour ago, theguru said:

I hear everything you are saying but the difference is anyone can always change their habits and live a healthy lifestyle whereas if you get the COVID booster and there are some long-term detrimental health effects you are stuck with them. 

Fair enough.

Just now, bugatti said:

I suppose this makes the unvaccinated as the control group? ?

I don't think so. Don't they have to take a placebo to be a control group? Would the unvaccinated fall in the guinea pig category?

In the history of humankind and vaccines, how many have been known to have long term health impediments? Honestly, I don't know. And conspiracy theories do not count.

As I understand this vaccine, or variation thereof, wasn't just started at the onset of COVID-19. It was a spinoff of work that has been taking place for years. Without that work, yeah, we would be looking at years before any type of vaccine creation and/or approval.

8 minutes ago, bugatti said:

As I understand this vaccine, or variation thereof, wasn't just started at the onset of COVID-19. It was a spinoff of work that has been taking place for years. Without that work, yeah, we would be looking at years before any type of vaccine creation and/or approval.

Exactly. These vaccines didn't just appear out of thin air. 

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

I don't think so. Don't they have to take a placebo to be a control group? Would the unvaccinated fall in the guinea pig category?

No less or more than the vaccinated fall in the guinea pig category. 

27 minutes ago, theguru said:

No less or more than the vaccinated fall in the guinea pig category. 

Hmmmm ... at what point does a vaccine become trustworthy?

If 4.2 billion guinea pigs with good results aren't enough proof, what is? If time is an issue too, how long should someone wait? 

I am sure there was a time people were scared to ride in a boat, or a car, or an airplane. I guess it all comes down to a risk assessment. The question then becomes - what is the risk? 4.2 billion doses help reduce risk, don't they?

9 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Hmmmm ... at what point does a vaccine become trustworthy?

If 4.2 billion guinea pigs with good results aren't enough proof, what is? If time is an issue too, how long should someone wait? 

I am sure there was a time people were scared to ride in a boat, or a car, or an airplane. I guess it all comes down to a risk assessment. The question then becomes - what is the risk? 4.2 billion doses help reduce risk, don't they?

We don't know what happens long-term so that is to be determined.

More and more I think the use of the term vaccine is generous.  It is more like a highly effective flu shot.

With all that said, if someone wants the shot, go for it, if not, okay, but no matter what people decide the rest of us need to leave them alone. 

31 minutes ago, theguru said:

We don't know what happens long-term so that is to be determined.

More and more I think the use of the term vaccine is generous.  It is more like a highly effective flu shot.

With all that said, if someone wants the shot, go for it, if not, okay, but no matter what people decide the rest of us need to leave them alone. 

The flu shot is a vaccine. And the COVID vaccine is like the flu vaccine because of the fast evolving mutations that will require boosters. I won't be surprised at all if we don't eventually see annual COVID boosters just like annual flu shot boosters to attack mutations.

8 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

The flu shot is a vaccine. And the COVID vaccine is like the flu vaccine because of the fast evolving mutations that will require boosters. I won't be surprised at all if we don't eventually see annual COVID boosters just like annual flu shot boosters to attack mutations.

Right, we have a low bar for the vaccine designation.

I agree on boosters, you know it is coming...

On 8/5/2021 at 5:24 PM, theguru said:

Right, we have a low bar for the vaccine designation.

I agree on boosters, you know it is coming...

Low bar for vaccine designation? There is no gray area on what is or isn't a vaccine. Not debatable. Some vaccines provide a longer term of protection than others but a vaccine is a vaccine.