2 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

What’s confusing? I can imagine scenarios where it would be appropriate to “force” people to get vaccinated. That is not happening, and likely won’t. Just because an employer says “get the vaccine or find a new job,” that is not forcing you to get vaccinated. That’s forcing you to make a choice. 

 

If you have to carry a card in your pocket, or on your phone, proving you injected a drug into your body to go to the grocery store, receive medical care, or to freely move about in society, you aren’t living under free conditions, and you are no longer the sovereign owner of your own body.

 

1 minute ago, John Anthony said:

 

If you have to carry a card in your pocket, or on your phone, proving you injected a drug into your body to go to the grocery store, receive medical care, or to freely move about in society, you aren’t living under free conditions, and you are no longer the sovereign owner of your own body.

 

You can go to a different store that doesn’t require it.

Yiu can find a different healthcare provider (although your scenario will literally never happen).

Just because you may be denied access to certain establishments doesn’t mean you aren’t free to move around society. Every place we go now already has rules and/or regulations. You just don’t like these.

1 minute ago, TheDeuce said:

You can go to a different store that doesn’t require it.

Yiu can find a different healthcare provider (although your scenario will literally never happen).

Just because you may be denied access to certain establishments doesn’t mean you aren’t free to move around society. Every place we go now already has rules and/or regulations. You just don’t like these.

And you are no longer the sovereign owner of your own body.

@TheDeuce@Voice of Reason Should we also force the flu shot on everyone?  400,000 hospitalizations annually for the flu as well. 

1 minute ago, John Anthony said:

@TheDeuce@Voice of Reason Should we also force the flu shot on everyone?  400,000 hospitalizations annually for the flu as well. 

Nobody is forced to get the flu shot either. 

5 minutes ago, John Anthony said:

And you are no longer the sovereign owner of your own body.

Yes you are. 

3 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

Yes you are. 

I see your game now…. Do you believe in restricting people from grocery stores, Healthcare providers, hospitals, and other public facilities without Covid papers?

Or Under no circumstances should anyone be restricted?

9 minutes ago, John Anthony said:

I see your game now…. Do you believe in restricting people from grocery stores, Healthcare providers, hospitals, and other public facilities without Covid papers?

Or Under no circumstances should anyone be restricted?

There’s no game. As has always been the case, businesses (private or otherwise) have the right to refuse service for any reason outside of the protected classes. 

Businesses have conditions of employment, always have. Adding the requirement of a vaccine is well within their right. 

Healthcare facilities shouldn’t, can’t and won’t refuse people. 

This really isn’t that hard. 

10 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

There’s no game. As has always been the case, businesses (private or otherwise) have the right to refuse service for any reason outside of the protected classes. 

Businesses have conditions of employment, always have. Adding the requirement of a vaccine is well within their right. 

Healthcare facilities shouldn’t, can’t and won’t refuse people. 

This really isn’t that hard. 

I guess I define not giving someone a choice as force.  Good times Deuce, give it a few more months and you will struggle to find “other places” people can go but we can ignore.

3 minutes ago, John Anthony said:

I guess I define not giving someone a choice as force.  Good times Deuce, give it a few more months and you will struggle to find “other places” people can go but we can ignore.

That’s the thing though, we will always have a choice. Some just may not like the choices, or the consequences of their choices. 

For those that don’t read the fine print on what’s being forced on you, or will be at some point:

The FDA did find that the vaccine does present a higher risk of myocarditis and pericarditis in males under the age of 40, the highest risk being for males ages 12 to 17. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle and pericarditis is inflammation of the outside lining of the heart. Symptoms include chest pain, shortness of breath, and a fast-beating heart. Individuals with symptoms should seek medical attention.  The FDA is requiring Pfizer to continue post-marketing studies.

Whether you're vaccinated or not you are going to have to wear a mask if you go to a football game in the state of Oregon. Why are we still calling this thing a vaccine?

1 hour ago, Kentucky Windage said:

Whether you're vaccinated or not you are going to have to wear a mask if you go to a football game in the state of Oregon. Why are we still calling this thing a vaccine?

I am with you. Why are the vaccinated being forced to wear masks? Let the unvaccinated suffer whatever consequences come their way. I will repeat once again - it is about deaths for me. If there had been no masks and no shut down, who knows how many would have died. There are 650,000 dead with masks, shutdowns and the vaccine. Now there is the vaccine which clearly reduces deaths. Get the vaccine and live free. Don't get it and the risk is all yours.

13 hours ago, John Anthony said:

I see your game now…. Do you believe in restricting people from grocery stores, Healthcare providers, hospitals, and other public facilities without Covid papers?

Or Under no circumstances should anyone be restricted?

I’d be fine with that.  

15 hours ago, John Anthony said:

And you are no longer the sovereign owner of your own body.

In a lot of ways you're not the owner of your body now. Schools almost always have required vaccinations and proof of those vaccinations. I wasn't allowed to start college 30 years ago until I had gotten my measles booster shot. You can get thrown in jail for ingesting certain substances (ie drugs)....under the sovereign body doctrine, you should be able to put anything into your body you want. Abortion is regulated, and many want it to be illegal. As a society, we try to stop you when you want to kill yourself. Again, why isn't it my body, my choice in those instances?