Fab Five on ESPN

[Jim Schue]

I don't think beating UK in anyway "legitmized them." I think their runs to the title games did. Like I've said before they had a great run but like Whitlock said, they did not win a single title of any kind.

 

I go back to one of the feels of that era: Style over substance. :thumb:

 

Media drives a lot of things and media drove this machine to be the "impact" team they were. They were awesome, but not the greatest IMO, as they are portrayed in the documentary.

 

But as GT noted, it's not like getting to the finals and falling short is somehow failure, as some seem to be suggesting. If that was the case, why are UK fans so hung up on the Final Four drought?

[75center]

If the Yankees were WS losers back-to-back with all rookies then all second-year players, then you've got a legit comparison.

 

Sorry, just can't see it. They did great for freshmen and sophmores but the fact remains that they never won anything yet people seem to want to elevate them to elite status. That's how I'm hearing it. Second place isn't elite. Shoot the Buffalo Bills and Minnesota Vikings were something of a joke finishing second.

[75center]

But as GT noted, it's not like getting to the finals and falling short is somehow failure, as some seem to be suggesting. If that was the case, why are UK fans so hung up on the Final Four drought?

 

It's not failure, it just doesn't deserve the hype it gets.

[PurplePride92]

They weren't allowed to play as freshmen. However if they were, you can bet UCLA would have won the title with them playing. In 1966 UCLA played an annual Varsity vs. Freshmen game. That season the defending National Champs (UCLA), returning I think 2 or 3 starters, lost by like 25 points to the freshman class of Alcindor, Allen and company. Walton's class was just as talented. Make no mistake, if you started them as all freshmen, those UCLA squads would have done the same. Jabbar (Alcindor) and Walton are both trump cards whose talent far exceeded anything on the Fab Five. The other pieces like Allen & Shackelford or Wilkes and Curtis pretty much were a little above Webber and Rose and Howard IMO.

 

Which is my point. Regardless of the rules no 5 freshman ever came in as heralded them nor accomplished as much as them as freshmen.

[PurplePride92]

Great discussion. Found this article this morning from Jason Whitlock. http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/ESPN-The-Fab-Five-documentary-Jalen-Rose-Chris-Webber-Juwan-Howard-Jimmy-King-Ray-Jackson-031511

 

The legacy of the Fab Five is that they were on the cutting edge of America’s unashamed embrace of style over substance.

 

The Fab Five are taking credit for the real accomplishments of John Thompson’s and Patrick Ewing’s Georgetown Hoyas.

 

It was Thompson’s all-black, Ewing-led teams a decade before the Fab Five that shook the foundation of college basketball, changed the complexion of starting lineups across the country, opened coaching doors that had previously been closed to blacks and paved the way for black sportswriters at major newspapers.

 

It’s easy to forgive Rose for his lack of self-awareness. It’s America. In this country, self-awareness and common sense are our most rare commodities.

 

What’s not easy to excuse is the clueless robbery of what Thompson, Ewing, Bill Martin, Reggie Williams, Horace Broadnax and David Wingate accomplished.

 

They won championships — conference and national. They scared and intimidated the establishment. They were the inner-city black kids who left a legacy of jobs and playing opportunities for other impoverished minorities that exposes the lack of substance in the fads popularized by the Fab Five.

 

I wonder if time frame is an issue in the conversation as well. Purple has already shared that he was in college at roughly the same time as the Fab Five.

 

I was in college at the same time as Hoya Paranoia.

 

It might be that both of us are viewing through the glasses of our personal perspective as well. :thumb:

 

 

Hatz.......Jason Whitlock is a hack and I can't acknowledge anything he writes.

 

Yes, I am definitely viewing through my glasses of my personal perspective. I didn't know people didn't like the Fab Five until I saw their hate mail and then subsequent threads on various message boards after 30 for 30.

[Hatz]

Which is my point. Regardless of the rules no 5 freshman ever came in as heralded them nor accomplished as much as them as freshmen.

 

Would disagree with the bolded. Again the Lew Alcindor class or Walton bunch were just as heralded. Difference was the popularity of the sport then vs. now.

 

As to accomplishment as freshmen, hard to surpass 5 freshmen doing that since 1973.

[History]

I may be in the minority, but I liked the Fab Five, the documentary and I always like reading Whitlock. He makes you think.

[mexitucky]

I disagree. I distincty remember when they were freshmen and when Steve Fisher finally added Ray Jackson to the starting lineup making the Fab Five the starting five. These guys were large on and off the court. The consecutive finals game legitimized the hype IMO. Of course I am just year younger than these guys(and a black Duke fan....yes....they are both factors) and to me they changed the collegiate game. Their influence is undeniable. It baffles me that people think they wouldn't have been relevant without going to the Finals and their tragedies there. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Right, you are talking about OUR generation. However, when these guys are reknown a generation from now, it will be b/c of the tragic character of the team. That timeout will be what gets them attention over the Florida teams that went back-to-back. They influenced US, and indirectly will influence future generations as styles evolve, but they will always be remembered for the time out. Their social influence will fade, but everyone will have seen Webber dribble into the corner and get tied up.

[mexitucky]

By the way, I was 11 and 12 when the Fab Five were playing and I loved them.

[PurplePride92]

Right, you are talking about OUR generation. However, when these guys are reknown a generation from now, it will be b/c of the tragic character of the team. That timeout will be what gets them attention over the Florida teams that went back-to-back. They influenced US, and indirectly will influence future generations as styles evolve, but they will always be remembered for the time out. Their social influence will fade, but everyone will have seen Webber dribble into the corner and get tied up.

 

Well said. Thy definitely influenced me and a large number of my peers. OUR generation is the most important part.

[Jim Schue]

It's not failure, it just doesn't deserve the hype it gets.

 

Disagree. Five frosh -- first time ever. Foreshadowed the state of today's game by two decades -- revolutionary.

[Michael Corleone]

When Jalen Rose was drug out of that crack house do you think Coach K was thinking "I really think we need to start recruiting more risky kids"?