Public/Private Debate: A Scenario (guru please read!)

[rockmom]

I like that. It appears that they have various high schools offering specific courses with the students allowed to pick what would be most suitable. However, for the sake of this thread, it is still in-district restricted.

 

 

If you mean that once a student chooses his school, and then plays sports then, I'd say yes.

 

There was an article this morning about Shawnee, that I'm linking:

 

Returning Shawnee to glory

 

Here's an interesting point from the article:

 

Kendrick Cooper lives in Fern Creek and had plenty of high school options.

 

Cooper chose Shawnee because of its aviation magnet program. Four years later, it's a decision he's glad he made.

 

"I live in the area with the Males and the private schools and all, and I know the difference," Cooper said. "Shawnee looks really good. It's really a great place to be."

 

His resides school would have been Fern Creek, but he chose Shawnee. For those who don't realize, Fern Creek and Shawnee are on opposite sides of the County.

[GoBigRed]

Well, let's just use the Jefferson County schools as an example.

 

Being an open enrollment district, Jefferson County schools have choices, including private schools, from which to decide their school. So, I think that all is equal among them, with regard to the Jefferson County school district.

 

Now, neighboring counties: Oldham, Bullit, etc, do not offer a private school choice at the high school level. Are you saying the private schools should limit their enrollment to students only in Jefferson County?

 

Yeah, I understand the open enrollment policy and it makes perfect sense academically and athletically, win-win for all. But open enrollment only works well for the parts of the state that are heavily populated so a lot of the state can't even benefit from it cause of population.

 

With the population of Jefferson county, I would think that the private schools wouldn't have any problem filling their classes with students. But the statement that the Spears guy is alluding to is that the private schools need to do something about it, otherwise this will get passed eventually.

 

Those neighboring counties that you are talking about, Oldham, Bullit, can those schools have kids attend that live in Jefferson County?

[Trinity alum]

They want us to define a region. That sounds good, but what does it mean? Schools like Trinity, X, Sacred Heart and Assumption are regional schools. Our "region" includes a very wide area and the kids from that wide area are not just athletes. They have also mentioned defined feeder schools. I assume that they would want to define the feeder schools as only Catholic schools. Does that mean that the local public schools will also have to define their feeder schools? Does that mean that the kids that attend a Catholic grade school could no longer play sports for a public high school? From our parish, the largest number of kids attend Ballard for high school. The rest attend Waggener, Male, Manual, Eastern, Trinity, X, Sacred Heart, Assumption, Mercy and Presentation. I may have left someone out. Which high school are we a feeder school for?

[Hasbeen]

If you mean that once a student chooses his school, and then plays sports then, I'd say yes.

 

There was an article this morning about Shawnee, that I'm linking:

 

Returning Shawnee to glory

 

Here's an interesting point from the article:

 

 

 

His resides school would have been Fern Creek, but he chose Shawnee. For those who don't realize, Fern Creek and Shawnee are on opposite sides of the County.

 

Good article. My thought would be that with the difference in curriculum offered by each school, picking one purely for athletic reasons could be quite a sacrifice as far as career goals are concerned.

In a two-high school district such as Knox where both Knox Central and Lynn Camp offer basically the same courses, there would be few reasons to choose based on accademics. Therefore, the whole open enrollment deal is entirely foreign. Thus, theoreticly, both schools enrollement is limited to only those who live within their boundaries.

[Hasbeen]

They want us to define a region. That sounds good, but what does it mean? Schools like Trinity, X, Sacred Heart and Assumption are regional schools. Our "region" includes a very wide area and the kids from that wide area are not just athletes.

 

I agree wholeheartily, but therein lies the problem and why I believe there is no solution other than separation. By limiting the privates to a specific area, we would be going against the very fabric of what a religious school is all about, the opportunity for a student to recieve religion based education strutured around what the parents believe is a proper enviroment. I can in no way argue against the benefits nor suggest they be changed simply for athletic equality.

However, since we are speaking of athletic equality in this thread, I see no way a public school, limited by boundaries enforced by either federal, state, or local rules, can adequately compete. In my opinion, this would be the equivalent of having a NFL team in Helena, Montana that is limited to drafting on in-state players while the rest of the league continues to draft nationwide, including the state of Montana. I guess the Helena Unibombers should just stop whining and work harder.

[Rambo4343]

You really have no concept, do you?

 

Your the one who ask the question.

[BigStud]

Quote from C-J:

 

"What could private schools -- who won 17 of Kentucky's 30 state championships last school year -- do to quell the separation movement?"

 

"Define your feeder system," Spears said. "Define your boundaries. That's exactly what we (the public schools) do."

 

I have been told time and time again on here that public schools could stretch their boundaries out and get players but I have always heard elsewhere that public schools cannot and this article is saying that public schools cannot.

This Spears fellow is a moron. Catholic High Schools meet a specific need for people all over the region. They can't just define themselves to smaller territory because: A. Not every one in a remote territory wants to attend a Catholic High School and B. Its the Catholic Church's mission to reach out as far as possible and to educate any and all people who want to be educate in the Catholic faith or mission.

 

Spears needs to do his homework, because most if not all schools in NKY have open enrollement. You don't think Open enrollment has played an effect on the success of Beechwood or Highlands?

[BGGreen]

Rockmom take a deep breath. If the KHSAA kicks the privates out of the state championship, the privates will have to make a decision: to accept the proposal or leave the KHSAA. Many may choose to leave the KHSAA. X and T would probably leave. X and T could give full scholarships to players. If the public school coaches believe that X and T has "recruited" wait until X and T can give full scholarships in football and basketball.

Wouldn't it be better for X and T football? T would not have to play Southern, Oldham County, Eastern, Fern Creek or Seneca. Those games are usually miserable for both teams. X and T could play private schools only, with games against the Cincinnati schools, Dayton Chaminade, Nashville Montgomery Bell and so on. Marshall Field would be packed.

I believe that all schools may be better off if the proposal is passed and the privates leave the KHSAA. There is no way that public schools(except for about 4 or 5 of them) can compete with X or T or Cov Cath in football.

 

Totally agree with your take on Trinity and X--The big and strong will just get bigger and stronger!!

 

What most "public only" advocates keep failing to realize is this legislation by the KHSAA is not about "banning" Trinity and X, but ALL private schools!! Under the plan they are proposing, they will undoubtably create their own monster in Louisville, and possibly in Lexington as well; but what happens to the smaller private schools. Who do they play? What championship do they compete for?

 

In their zeal to ban Trinity and X from playing for the state 4-A football championship, they're going to penalize all private schools. Then what happens to the "aggressive public" and "city" schools, most of whom are currently more active in bringing in out-of-district kids than the schools you are pointing your fingers at now!! You think they'll get even stronger--Absolutely!!

[stickymitts]

Well, let's just use the Jefferson County schools as an example.

 

Being an open enrollment district, Jefferson County schools have choices, including private schools, from which to decide their school. So, I think that all is equal among them, with regard to the Jefferson County school district.

 

Now, neighboring counties: Oldham, Bullit, etc, do not offer a private school choice at the high school level. Are you saying the private schools should limit their enrollment to students only in Jefferson County?

 

I never actually established districts or boundaries. I don't know all of the schools in the state and their locations so I'm not sure if you do it by county or some other boundary. I think we need to realize that this doesn't have as much to do with Jefferson County schools as much as it does Fayette County schools.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but besides Louisville and NKY, there aren't very many private schools to choose from.

[All Tell]

If this passes the KHSAA can eliminate all suspense and just put Male's name on the 4A Football trophy permanantly.

 

No one else will be able to compete with them.

 

How long before they get separated?

 

If this passes how many "State Champions" will there be? My guess is 6 (big and small privates and 4 publics)

 

How long before we have a separation of those schools with open enrollment? Surely we can't allow public schools that can take student from anywhere they want to take championships away from poor little schools that are limited by local districts. Then we'll have at least 2 more "champions" so we would have 8.

 

And the supporters of this lunacy don't think the "championships" would be diluted.

[Trinity alum]

I agree wholeheartily, but therein lies the problem and why I believe there is no solution other than separation. By limiting the privates to a specific area, we would be going against the very fabric of what a religious school is all about, the opportunity for a student to recieve religion based education strutured around what the parents believe is a proper enviroment. I can in no way argue against the benefits nor suggest they be changed simply for athletic equality.

However, since we are speaking of athletic equality in this thread, I see no way a public school, limited by boundaries enforced by either federal, state, or local rules, can adequately compete. In my opinion, this would be the equivalent of having a NFL team in Helena, Montana that is limited to drafting on in-state players while the rest of the league continues to draft nationwide, including the state of Montana. I guess the Helena Unibombers should just stop whining and work harder.

The problem is that there are only a very limited number of private schools. In 4A there are two. In 3A, there are two. It just doesn't work. I for one don't buy the argument that the smaller schools should just work harder. In the long run it is going to be hard for a school with 300 boys to compete in football with a school with 1450. That only makes sense, but the answer isn't to throw the school with 1450 students out. All of the other claimed advantages of the private schools are available to public schools, but for, in some cases, very good reasons of economics and public policy, they choose not to make those choices available to their students. Take Jefferson and Oldham counties as an example. The Jefferson County schools could allow Oldham County kids to attend and the Oldham County schools could allow Jefferson County kids to attend. Each could charge whatever they see as appropriate tuition. Do they? Will they? Would it be good policy for the rapidly growing Oldham County schools to allow Jefferson County kids to attend? I don't have an answer to those questions, but I do know that the answer is not to punish the kids that have made the choice to attend a private school that works very hard to be successful in all things. Trinity will get a great deal of publicity this weekend when the formal opening of Marshall Stadium takes place. That is as it should be. One of the questions that has been asked is why did it take ten years to get this stadium built? The answer is that Trinity very properly spent money first on expanding and upgrading the academic facilities to meet the demands of 21st century education and a rapidly growing enrollment. Why should that type of success get our kids kicked out?

[stickymitts]

(big and small privates and 4 publics)

 

 

To add a little humor to this thread, that made me laugh out loud. :laugh: :laugh:

 

BTW, I agree with you. Suck it up and improve your school instead of trying to kick out the some of the schools that have done it right all along.

[rocks lacrosse]

...How long before we have a separation of those schools with open enrollment? Surely we can't allow public schools that can take student from anywhere they want to take championships away from poor little schools that are limited by local districts. Then we'll have at least 2 more "champions" so we would have 8...

 

Once there are separate public & private titles, this is will happen sooner than later. Just raise the limbo bar until eveyrone walks under it & we have equality of results.

[BigStud]

Here is a side not. That you public school officals viewing this site should consider.

 

If you look at all the successful programs across the state be it private or public what do they have in common?

 

1. Good youth systems in community

2. Good coaching staffs

3. Parent Involvment at youth levels

4. Financial backing of Alumni

5. A sense of community

 

 

Look at any successful program , I guarntee you all of them fit these 5 area's. I guarntee any of those programs who feel the system is unfair, and if they focus on these 5 aspects I guarntee they to will see a drastic change. The problem is alot of these schools who are complaing lack

1. Leadership

2. Vision

3. The know how

4. Common Sense

To understand all the complex issues involved in this subject manner and the state of KY sports. The problem is not the system the problem is the manner in which some of these schools use the system.

[Rafterman]

Can someone post a list of private schools that play football in the state. I thought the CJ article said there were only 15. What schools would be out?