Lebron James

[CatsCatsCats]

Please tell me how you could consider Lebron more clutch than Kobe? Their has been more well known times of Lebron blowing it, rather than winning it for his team at end of games. That one game against the Pistons Lebron was GREAT, we all admit that. However if you compare the two guys for the 4th quarters of games and especially within the final 3 minutes. I bet you 80 percent of people in America would say they rather have Kobe at the end of the game rather than Lebron. The 20 percent who probably would choose lebron would be the guys who are just more bias to Lebron because of him being one of their favorite players. Kobe is a guy most people hate, including me. So most people will just use their bias if they pick Lebron because they hate Kobe. Kobe in regular season games, and in playoff games have came up with the daggers to put teams away. Lebron in both regular season and playoff games, has missed most of his chances to put games away. Yeah he has had a few where he has actually finished it. But for people who have watched basketball through the years, they will admit it seems like anytime Kobe has the ball in a close game at the end, he ends up making the shot. He hardly ever misses the shot when they need it. Lebron has missed on the shot plenty of times, and has passed up the shot as well. I mean there is really no comparison here in who is more clutch. Definitely no argument for Lebron in this category yet. Lebron has probably move passed Kobe now in who is the better player overall, but Kobe still beats him when it comes to crunch time. When it comes down to an end of the game and needing a guy to win it for you or seal the deal, Kobe is the best choice still. Then as I said before Wade might be the next guy behind him. Wade has been making game winning shots ever since his rookie year, when he made the game winning shot for his team in the playoffs. I don't get why we are even arguing this who is more clutch.

 

You are making my point for me. When does Kobe take over? When? Certainly not when he was needed last year, or those years against the Suns. When? And LeBron usually is hitting the open man, just as he hit Delonte last year in the playoffs for a game winning shot. To me it is clutch to make the right play, and not soley depend on yourself. Case and point, Jordan passing to Kerr for that game winner in the finals. The idea that Kobe is SOOOOOOOOOO CLUTCH, is the media putting that in there cause they want a rival for Jordan. And Kobe started that early in his career, saying that he wanted to be better and pretty much being Jordan. Like the 24 thing, to be 1 better than Jordan. It's what they want you to think. Kobe is a great player no doubt, but I don't think teams are in fear of him like people are suggesting. LeBron is much scarier at the end of the game because he can get to the basket at will and will make the right play. He may not make them all, but no one, NOT EVEN the Basketball GOD that is Michael Jeffery Jordan did that. If Kobe didn't get to play with Shaq no one would say he is more clutch than anyone else, TITLES have a way of doing that for you. Agree or don't, but you can prove my point all day if you want. Prove me wrong, give examples. I'm in no way calling him a choke artist because he makes plays like any other super star, but how is he more clutch?

[HammerTime]

I don't think there is anyway he is 270.

[PurplePride92]

You are making my point for me. When does Kobe take over? When? Certainly not when he was needed last year, or those years against the Suns. When? And LeBron usually is hitting the open man, just as he hit Delonte last year in the playoffs for a game winning shot. To me it is clutch to make the right play, and not soley depend on yourself. Case and point, Jordan passing to Kerr for that game winner in the finals. The idea that Kobe is SOOOOOOOOOO CLUTCH, is the media putting that in there cause they want a rival for Jordan. And Kobe started that early in his career, saying that he wanted to be better and pretty much being Jordan. Like the 24 thing, to be 1 better than Jordan. It's what they want you to think. Kobe is a great player no doubt, but I don't think teams are in fear of him like people are suggesting. LeBron is much scarier at the end of the game because he can get to the basket at will and will make the right play. He may not make them all, but no one, NOT EVEN the Basketball GOD that is Michael Jeffery Jordan did that. If Kobe didn't get to play with Shaq no one would say he is more clutch than anyone else, TITLES have a way of doing that for you. Agree or don't, but you can prove my point all day if you want. Prove me wrong, give examples. I'm in no way calling him a choke artist because he makes plays like any other super star, but how is he more clutch?

 

 

 

Most of this is laughable. So now you are saying no one in the NBA fears Kobe. Yeah.....okay. Even LeBron will say he isn't better than Kobe. If you polled the NBA, I would bet a paycheck that they would say Kobe is the most clutch player in the NBA and the one guy they fear the most. Chauncey Billups would probably be a close second in terms of clutch. LeBron passing the ball at the end of the game doesn't make him clutch because it was the right play. Any one can pass up the shot. Delonte West is clutch for taking and making that shot, and so is Steve Kerr. If LeBron is so clutch and since he can get to the basket at will, as you say, then why didn't he just go get a layup? Why pass to a teammate if he can get a layup?

 

It has been stated before and I guess you didn't like the explanation, but putting the team on your back and carrying them to victory in the 4th quarter is clutch. When the game is in balance Kobe continually hits shots when the Lakers need them. He hits 3's when they are needed. He gets steals when they are needed. He could be having an awful game, but if that shot is needed with the shot clock running down and there is only a minute left in the game, he hits the shot. Do I have a running ticker of all of his clutch play to give as you say proof, no I don't. All you have to do is watch the Lakers throughout the course of the year and it is plain to see.

 

I am not saying LeBron isn't clutch, but I do think Kobe is more clutch than LeBron. I don't have concrete proof, but I know what I have seen when I watch both of them play.

[CatsCatsCats]

Most of this is laughable. So now you are saying no one in the NBA fears Kobe. Yeah.....okay. Even LeBron will say he isn't better than Kobe. If you polled the NBA, I would bet a paycheck that they would say Kobe is the most clutch player in the NBA and the one guy they fear the most. Chauncey Billups would probably be a close second in terms of clutch. LeBron passing the ball at the end of the game doesn't make him clutch because it was the right play. Any one can pass up the shot. Delonte West is clutch for taking and making that shot, and so is Steve Kerr. If LeBron is so clutch and since he can get to the basket at will, as you say, then why didn't he just go get a layup? Why pass to a teammate if he can get a layup?

 

It has been stated before and I guess you didn't like the explanation, but putting the team on your back and carrying them to victory in the 4th quarter is clutch. When the game is in balance Kobe continually hits shots when the Lakers need them. He hits 3's when they are needed. He gets steals when they are needed. He could be having an awful game, but if that shot is needed with the shot clock running down and there is only a minute left in the game, he hits the shot. Do I have a running ticker of all of his clutch play to give as you say proof, no I don't. All you have to do is watch the Lakers throughout the course of the year and it is plain to see.

 

I am not saying LeBron isn't clutch, but I do think Kobe is more clutch than LeBron. I don't have concrete proof, but I know what I have seen when I watch both of them play.

 

Well, outside of Charles Barkley, what NBA player would say publically that he is better than another?

 

If Kobe was so automatic, atleast one HUGE moment would come to mind. I do remember the Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against the Suns. That is pretty clutch, IMO.

 

Making the right play is clutch, because when he kicks it out, he created the shot for a teammate. He, LeBron, makes everyone on his team better. They hit shots, they win.

 

As for the most feared, he gets alot of smack his way for that. Ron Artest, Raja Bell, others. Sure, Jordan and LeBron and everyone else got it, but it's different for Kobe. Which probably has more to do with personality, or seemingly lack there of, than his skills. Fear is teams choking against him. Like the Jazz in back to back finals against the Bulls, especially Karl Malone. That was Jordan, that was fear. No one is trembling because Kobe comes to town.

 

Like I sad, Kobe is a very good player. He is going to hit his shots, which naturally are going to come at all points of the game. But, he isn't the most clutch in the NBA. I do agree that Billups probably takes that role though.

 

The media forces us to believe them. They want us to think Kobe is as good a MJ, better than MJ. It's good for ratings, it's good for the news. So they build him into this superhuman star. He is good, if not great, but give me a break.

[PurplePride92]

Well, outside of Charles Barkley, what NBA player would say publically that he is better than another?

 

If Kobe was so automatic, atleast one HUGE moment would come to mind. I do remember the Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against the Suns. That is pretty clutch, IMO.

 

Making the right play is clutch, because when he kicks it out, he created the shot for a teammate. He, LeBron, makes everyone on his team better. They hit shots, they win.

 

As for the most feared, he gets alot of smack his way for that. Ron Artest, Raja Bell, others. Sure, Jordan and LeBron and everyone else got it, but it's different for Kobe. Which probably has more to do with personality, or seemingly lack there of, than his skills. Fear is teams choking against him. Like the Jazz in back to back finals against the Bulls, especially Karl Malone. That was Jordan, that was fear. No one is trembling because Kobe comes to town.

 

Like I sad, Kobe is a very good player. He is going to hit his shots, which naturally are going to come at all points of the game. But, he isn't the most clutch in the NBA. I do agree that Billups probably takes that role though.

 

The media forces us to believe them. They want us to think Kobe is as good a MJ, better than MJ. It's good for ratings, it's good for the news. So they build him into this superhuman star. He is good, if not great, but give me a break.

 

 

 

I wish all NBA players would be honest, but I am basing my beliefs on those halftime reports with the players when they do their "Fave 5". When the question is asked, who is the toughest player to play against, who would you want to take the last shot if it wasn't you, who is the best player in the nba, Kobe is always the first name out of the players mouth.

 

That 3-1 series loss to the Suns was a heartbreaker, however they were the 7 seed that series against the number 2 seed Suns. The Suns were wayyy better than the Lakers that year, and the Suns had games 5 and 7 in Phoenix. The right team won that series, but I agree, that was not a bright moment for Kobe, but if you went and looked at all superstars, they all have similar moments in their careers as well. To say Kobe is not clutch because of that series is equal to saying Jordan isn't clutch for losing the series to the Magic in 1995 or the Pistons in 88 and 89. The same way you need more proof as to why he is clutch, I need more proof as to why LeBron is more clutch when according to you LeBron's most clutch moment is a pass to Delonte West for West to take the game winning shot. Not to mention LeBron missed a 3 foot shot that the playoff series depended on.

 

In all reality, there is a lot of proof in old game tapes that Kobe continually tried to make his teammates better. If blown assists was a stat I guarantee that Kobe would be leading that stat. Until Pau Gasol came to the Lakers guys like Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, and even Lamar Odom to some degree missed layups, dunks, and jumpers when Kobe got them the ball in great situations. I have screamed and yelled so many times at the tv after easy shots were missed off of great passes by Kobe, but that won't ever show up in the stat line, that his teammates were too inept to make an easy shot.

 

We will just continue to agree to disagree.

[hoopboy]

Nevermind my last post, I didn't know you guys were talking about basketball.

[CatsCatsCats]

I wish all NBA players would be honest, but I am basing my beliefs on those halftime reports with the players when they do their "Fave 5". When the question is asked, who is the toughest player to play against, who would you want to take the last shot if it wasn't you, who is the best player in the nba, Kobe is always the first name out of the players mouth.

 

That 3-1 series loss to the Suns was a heartbreaker, however they were the 7 seed that series against the number 2 seed Suns. The Suns were wayyy better than the Lakers that year, and the Suns had games 5 and 7 in Phoenix. The right team won that series, but I agree, that was not a bright moment for Kobe, but if you went and looked at all superstars, they all have similar moments in their careers as well. To say Kobe is not clutch because of that series is equal to saying Jordan isn't clutch for losing the series to the Magic in 1995 or the Pistons in 88 and 89. The same way you need more proof as to why he is clutch, I need more proof as to why LeBron is more clutch when according to you LeBron's most clutch moment is a pass to Delonte West for West to take the game winning shot. Not to mention LeBron missed a 3 foot shot that the playoff series depended on.

 

In all reality, there is a lot of proof in old game tapes that Kobe continually tried to make his teammates better. If blown assists was a stat I guarantee that Kobe would be leading that stat. Until Pau Gasol came to the Lakers guys like Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, and even Lamar Odom to some degree missed layups, dunks, and jumpers when Kobe got them the ball in great situations. I have screamed and yelled so many times at the tv after easy shots were missed off of great passes by Kobe, but that won't ever show up in the stat line, that his teammates were too inept to make an easy shot.

 

We will just continue to agree to disagree.

 

LBJ's most clutch moment is the game against the Pistons wheh he scored like 32 of the last 34 points.

 

The Suns series was, me saying that EVEN the GREAT Kobe Bryant fails. Like LBJ missing the layup. At least that was one game, one shot. Not 3.

 

And if you call all that non-sense about Kobe crying about his team last year making them better then ok. They did get better. Or maybe, Bynum just matured and became a legit pro center, and they added Pau Gasol. You be the judge.

[Original Rookie]

Well, outside of Charles Barkley, what NBA player would say publically that he is better than another?

 

If Kobe was so automatic, atleast one HUGE moment would come to mind. I do remember the Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against the Suns. That is pretty clutch, IMO.

 

Making the right play is clutch, because when he kicks it out, he created the shot for a teammate. He, LeBron, makes everyone on his team better. They hit shots, they win.

 

As for the most feared, he gets alot of smack his way for that. Ron Artest, Raja Bell, others. Sure, Jordan and LeBron and everyone else got it, but it's different for Kobe. Which probably has more to do with personality, or seemingly lack there of, than his skills. Fear is teams choking against him. Like the Jazz in back to back finals against the Bulls, especially Karl Malone. That was Jordan, that was fear. No one is trembling because Kobe comes to town.

 

Like I sad, Kobe is a very good player. He is going to hit his shots, which naturally are going to come at all points of the game. But, he isn't the most clutch in the NBA. I do agree that Billups probably takes that role though.

 

The media forces us to believe them. They want us to think Kobe is as good a MJ, better than MJ. It's good for ratings, it's good for the news. So they build him into this superhuman star. He is good, if not great, but give me a break.

 

You are all over the place and have a clear dislike for Kobe. EVERY basketball expert in the game would say Kobe is the most clutch, I guess you know more than them?

 

The Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against the Suns is an example of him not being cluch? Comical. BTW, Kobe hit several clutch shots in that series to put them up 3-1.

 

Here's one that comes to mind... NBA Finals against Detroit... Game 2... 3 at the buzzer to send it to overtime. Is that clutch? Or is it considered not clutch because his team lost the series?

 

Any player (that would say himself) or any coach in the league would say Kobe is the most clutch. It's clear to me that you don't watch Lakers games.

[TheDeuce]

You are all over the place and have a clear dislike for Kobe. EVERY basketball expert in the game would say Kobe is the most clutch, I guess you know more than them?

 

The Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against the Suns is an example of him not being cluch? Comical. BTW, Kobe hit several clutch shots in that series to put them up 3-1.

 

Here's one that comes to mind... NBA Finals against Detroit... Game 2... 3 at the buzzer to send it to overtime. Is that clutch? Or is it considered not clutch because his team lost the series?

 

Any player (that would say himself) or any coach in the league would say Kobe is the most clutch. It's clear to me that you don't watch Lakers games.

 

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

[HammerTime]

LBJ's most clutch moment is the game against the Pistons wheh he scored like 32 of the last 34 points.

 

The Suns series was, me saying that EVEN the GREAT Kobe Bryant fails. Like LBJ missing the layup. At least that was one game, one shot. Not 3.

 

And if you call all that non-sense about Kobe crying about his team last year making them better then ok. They did get better. Or maybe, Bynum just matured and became a legit pro center, and they added Pau Gasol. You be the judge.

That Lakers team was terrible by the way. Kind of like Lebron crying about his team the last off season. Granted he didn't go to the length that Kobe did but it worked for Kobe didn't it.

[futurecoach]

You are making my point for me. When does Kobe take over? When? Certainly not when he was needed last year, or those years against the Suns. When? And LeBron usually is hitting the open man, just as he hit Delonte last year in the playoffs for a game winning shot. To me it is clutch to make the right play, and not soley depend on yourself. Case and point, Jordan passing to Kerr for that game winner in the finals. The idea that Kobe is SOOOOOOOOOO CLUTCH, is the media putting that in there cause they want a rival for Jordan. And Kobe started that early in his career, saying that he wanted to be better and pretty much being Jordan. Like the 24 thing, to be 1 better than Jordan. It's what they want you to think. Kobe is a great player no doubt, but I don't think teams are in fear of him like people are suggesting. LeBron is much scarier at the end of the game because he can get to the basket at will and will make the right play. He may not make them all, but no one, NOT EVEN the Basketball GOD that is Michael Jeffery Jordan did that. If Kobe didn't get to play with Shaq no one would say he is more clutch than anyone else, TITLES have a way of doing that for you. Agree or don't, but you can prove my point all day if you want. Prove me wrong, give examples. I'm in no way calling him a choke artist because he makes plays like any other super star, but how is he more clutch?

 

I maintain that you must not watch must basketball, or not many Laker games. Because I really do not get why your even trying to argue this. People who have watched basketball have seen time after time time Kobe making the big shot when his team needs it. People who also watched basketball have seem more times than not, Lebron blowing it at the end in not making the shot. Or passing up the shot when he should have shot it. You named one shot when a teammate made it. However there have been way more times when he has passed it and they missed. Some of those times he should have been shooting the ball himself anyways. As I said before the only people who would not admit that Kobe is the most clutch basketball player in the NBA, is the guys who just hate Kobe and absolutely in love with Lebron. I be honest I don't like either of the two, and I hate Kobe even more than Lebron. Yet I not going to deny that Kobe is by far the more clutch out of the two. I have admitted that I think Lebron is the better player overall now, however when it comes down to it at the end of the game. Kobe is still the guy the majority of people would want to take the shot, and that is because he has made the shot time and time again throughout his career. While Lebron has missed it most of the time through his career to this point. I mean the majority of the people on here, and even NBA guys on tv, always talk about how clutch is. Yet for some reason your one of the only guys who don't see it. Which I believe has to do with you are letting your hate for Kobe and love for Lebron get in the way of this matter.

[futurecoach]

You are all over the place and have a clear dislike for Kobe. EVERY basketball expert in the game would say Kobe is the most clutch, I guess you know more than them?

 

The Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against the Suns is an example of him not being cluch? Comical. BTW, Kobe hit several clutch shots in that series to put them up 3-1.

 

Here's one that comes to mind... NBA Finals against Detroit... Game 2... 3 at the buzzer to send it to overtime. Is that clutch? Or is it considered not clutch because his team lost the series?

 

Any player (that would say himself) or any coach in the league would say Kobe is the most clutch. It's clear to me that you don't watch Lakers games.

 

:thumb:

[PurplePride92]

LBJ's most clutch moment is the game against the Pistons wheh he scored like 32 of the last 34 points.

 

The Suns series was, me saying that EVEN the GREAT Kobe Bryant fails. Like LBJ missing the layup. At least that was one game, one shot. Not 3.

 

And if you call all that non-sense about Kobe crying about his team last year making them better then ok. They did get better. Or maybe, Bynum just matured and became a legit pro center, and they added Pau Gasol. You be the judge.

 

 

And LBJ's team still lost the series, but I won't hold that against LeBron or say he isn't clutch because they lost that series.

 

I have never said that Kobe has never failed. And he will probably fail again at some point. He isn't perfect. But, Kobe has taken his team to the NBA Finals at the very least in a conference tougher than the Eastern Conference. Until LeBron makes it there, I don't see how he can be more clutch than Kobe.

 

 

As for your statement that I bolded, I have no clue what you are trying to say.

[PurplePride92]

You are all over the place and have a clear dislike for Kobe. EVERY basketball expert in the game would say Kobe is the most clutch, I guess you know more than them?

 

The Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against the Suns is an example of him not being cluch? Comical. BTW, Kobe hit several clutch shots in that series to put them up 3-1.

 

Here's one that comes to mind... NBA Finals against Detroit... Game 2... 3 at the buzzer to send it to overtime. Is that clutch? Or is it considered not clutch because his team lost the series?

 

Any player (that would say himself) or any coach in the league would say Kobe is the most clutch. It's clear to me that you don't watch Lakers games.

 

 

 

:thumb: Well said.

[PurplePride92]

I maintain that you must not watch must basketball, or not many Laker games. Because I really do not get why your even trying to argue this. People who have watched basketball have seen time after time time Kobe making the big shot when his team needs it. People who also watched basketball have seem more times than not, Lebron blowing it at the end in not making the shot. Or passing up the shot when he should have shot it. You named one shot when a teammate made it. However there have been way more times when he has passed it and they missed. Some of those times he should have been shooting the ball himself anyways. As I said before the only people who would not admit that Kobe is the most clutch basketball player in the NBA, is the guys who just hate Kobe and absolutely in love with Lebron. I be honest I don't like either of the two, and I hate Kobe even more than Lebron. Yet I not going to deny that Kobe is by far the more clutch out of the two. I have admitted that I think Lebron is the better player overall now, however when it comes down to it at the end of the game. Kobe is still the guy the majority of people would want to take the shot, and that is because he has made the shot time and time again throughout his career. While Lebron has missed it most of the time through his career to this point. I mean the majority of the people on here, and even NBA guys on tv, always talk about how clutch is. Yet for some reason your one of the only guys who don't see it. Which I believe has to do with you are letting your hate for Kobe and love for Lebron get in the way of this matter.

 

 

 

:thumb: Well said.