Lebron James

[CatsCatsCats]

You are all over the place and have a clear dislike for Kobe. EVERY basketball expert in the game would say Kobe is the most clutch, I guess you know more than them?

 

The Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against the Suns is an example of him not being cluch? Comical. BTW, Kobe hit several clutch shots in that series to put them up 3-1.

 

Here's one that comes to mind... NBA Finals against Detroit... Game 2... 3 at the buzzer to send it to overtime. Is that clutch? Or is it considered not clutch because his team lost the series?

 

Any player (that would say himself) or any coach in the league would say Kobe is the most clutch. It's clear to me that you don't watch Lakers games.

 

Finally, an example.

 

That Lakers team was terrible by the way. Kind of like Lebron crying about his team the last off season. Granted he didn't go to the length that Kobe did but it worked for Kobe didn't it.

 

They were too awful to have built a 3-1 lead in the playoffs?

 

I maintain that you must not watch must basketball, or not many Laker games. Because I really do not get why your even trying to argue this. People who have watched basketball have seen time after time time Kobe making the big shot when his team needs it. People who also watched basketball have seem more times than not, Lebron blowing it at the end in not making the shot. Or passing up the shot when he should have shot it. You named one shot when a teammate made it. However there have been way more times when he has passed it and they missed. Some of those times he should have been shooting the ball himself anyways. As I said before the only people who would not admit that Kobe is the most clutch basketball player in the NBA, is the guys who just hate Kobe and absolutely in love with Lebron. I be honest I don't like either of the two, and I hate Kobe even more than Lebron. Yet I not going to deny that Kobe is by far the more clutch out of the two. I have admitted that I think Lebron is the better player overall now, however when it comes down to it at the end of the game. Kobe is still the guy the majority of people would want to take the shot, and that is because he has made the shot time and time again throughout his career. While Lebron has missed it most of the time through his career to this point. I mean the majority of the people on here, and even NBA guys on tv, always talk about how clutch is. Yet for some reason your one of the only guys who don't see it. Which I believe has to do with you are letting your hate for Kobe and love for Lebron get in the way of this matter.

 

And LBJ's team still lost the series, but I won't hold that against LeBron or say he isn't clutch because they lost that series.

 

I have never said that Kobe has never failed. And he will probably fail again at some point. He isn't perfect. But, Kobe has taken his team to the NBA Finals at the very least in a conference tougher than the Eastern Conference. Until LeBron makes it there, I don't see how he can be more clutch than Kobe.

 

 

As for your statement that I bolded, I have no clue what you are trying to say.

 

 

 

No guys I watch plenty of basketball. What I don't watch is the garbage media talking up players or smacking players. You guys watch too much Around the Horn. What I'm saying is the mystique of Kobe is media manufactured and has NEVER been backed up on the floor to the extent of what ever one thinks. We're suppose to be brainwashed into believe that Kobe is every bit MJ's equal when he doesn't even compare. Other than 3pt. shooting Jordan is ALOT better at every OTHER aspect of the game. No questions asked.

And yes I don't like Kobe, but it's not because I'm a LeBron fan. I have disliked Kobe pretty much since 2001 when he started getting the unwarranted Jordan comparisons. And, like I said if he was so clutch, there would be examples. There aren't endless examples like you have for the truely clutch players such as Jordan, Reggie Miller, Magic, etc., him being the so-called most clutch player in the league is manufactured by the media and once again by his obsession with Jordan. I said for the relative amount of time that he has been in the league LeBron is just as clutch. We all can list examples of when he has failed, because they are replayed over and over and people like Skip Bayless go nuts over it. If Kobe misses a game winner, the talk about him missing the shot is over as soon as the next games replay comes on. LeBron's is talked about for days, weeks, years. And yeah they probably should go on and on about it, LeBron is the MOST talented player to ever play the game, and COULD end up as the best player ever.

 

And Futurecoach, I don't think the fued between us will ever end. One thing pal, just because I don't agree with everything that the media says about sports doesn't mean that I know nothing about it. The NBA is my second favorite area of sports, (far behind NCAA football) and I would guarantee I watch more of it than just about anyone. I weould hate to guess how many times I have watched Kobe, and the result is the same every time. I don't see what the hype is about. I think he is the greatest3 pt.SHOOTER off the dribble that I have ever seen. That is it, nothing else he does is as good as people think it is, nothing. There are more athletic players than him, and there are alot better defenders on the wing, namely Bruce Bowen before this year, Tayshaun, Artest, and others. The love affair with Kobe is sickening and unwarranted to the extent that it is at. Like I said he is top 10 all-time when he's done, but people crown him as already being in the top two. He won't even be top 5 if LBJ stays healthy.

 

And you can say what you want about LBJ crying about his team. Put Kobe on a team with Wally Sczerbiak as his 2nd option and see how he reacts. He wasn't satisfied with Bynum and Odom last year, LeBron would have died for that kind of help before Mo arrived. And if you say that Big Z or Ben Wallace is still good, you either don't watch basketball, don't watch the Cavs, or don't know anything about basketball when you watch it.

 

Purple, LBJ did make the finals two years ago. Don't know if that is what you meant, but it is what you said. Point is invalid.

 

My personal biases don't let me not see the realities of sports. My least favorite athlete of all-time is Tim Tebow. I still thought he deseved the Heisman last year, and I defend him when people say he isn't a real QB. Kobe is a great player, but if I had an opportunity to start a franchise with the all-time greats I would definitely pick MJ, Magic, Oscar, Wilt, LeBron, Shaq, Bill Russell over him. I would be tempted to take Chris Paul but he is a few years away from being able to even be considered. Excuse me futurecoach, for actually watching people play and making my own evaluation. I don't get my sports knowledge or education from watching the "hired guns" at ESPN. I don't get mine from stats. I watch, I observe, I compare and Kobe falls short. He is clutch, but to say that no one in the league compares, or that he is so much more clutch than LBJ is unwarranted. Two facts have to be considered:

1. He has played alot longer. More opportunities to succeed. Failures in the NBA are forgotten after multiple successes.

2. He got to play with Shaq and won 3 titles early in his career. Those are two Hall of Famers together, and Shaq couldn't have been stopped then by a semi-truck. If Kobe had not been traded by the Hornets, would his career be looked at the same? No.

3. If you want to throw out 1 huge miss for LeBron, you have to mention the air-balls in the playoffs Kobe shot early in his career. Neither of the misses mean anything, other than their teams lost the game and eventually the series.

 

I'm not arguing that Kobe isn't clutch, I just think people say he is going only on either what they hear or what they truely want to believe. Everytime, Kobe has been to the Finals his team was suppose to be there, with the exception of possibly the first title. When has he delivered when he wasn't suppose to? Isn't that part of being clutch? Putting your team on your back and getting them through the tough spots?

[5wide]

That Lakers team was terrible by the way. Kind of like Lebron crying about his team the last off season. Granted he didn't go to the length that Kobe did but it worked for Kobe didn't it.

 

Well, technically, had the Lakers listened to Kobe, they'd have an over-the-hill PG named Jason Kidd and Andrew Bynum would be in New Jersey.

 

I think Kobe is reaping the rewards of a front office who stuck to their plan rather than listening to their star player. And, fortunate luck of landing Pau Gasol for a pack of peanuts.

 

JMO

[CatsCatsCats]

Well, technically, had the Lakers listened to Kobe, they'd have an over-the-hill PG named Jason Kidd and Andrew Bynum would be in New Jersey.

 

I think Kobe is reaping the rewards of a front office who stuck to their plan rather than listening to their star player.

 

JMO

 

:thumb:

[futurecoach]

 

What I'm saying is the mystique of Kobe is media manufactured and has NEVER been backed up on the floor to the extent of what ever one thinks. We're suppose to be brainwashed into believe that Kobe is every bit MJ's equal when he doesn't even compare. Other than 3pt. shooting Jordan is ALOT better at every OTHER aspect of the game. No questions asked.

And yes I don't like Kobe, but it's not because I'm a LeBron fan. I have disliked Kobe pretty much since 2001 when he started getting the unwarranted Jordan comparisons. And, like I said if he was so clutch, there would be examples. There aren't endless examples like you have for the truely clutch players such as Jordan, Reggie Miller, Magic, etc., him being the so-called most clutch player in the league is manufactured by the media and once again by his obsession with Jordan. I said for the relative amount of time that he has been in the league LeBron is just as clutch. We all can list examples of when he has failed, because they are replayed over and over and people like Skip Bayless go nuts over it. If Kobe misses a game winner, the talk about him missing the shot is over as soon as the next games replay comes on. LeBron's is talked about for days, weeks, years. And yeah they probably should go on and on about it, LeBron is the MOST talented player to ever play the game, and COULD end up as the best player ever.

 

 

My personal biases don't let me not see the realities of sports. My least favorite athlete of all-time is Tim Tebow. I still thought he deseved the Heisman last year, and I defend him when people say he isn't a real QB. Kobe is a great player, but if I had an opportunity to start a franchise with the all-time greats I would definitely pick MJ, Magic, Oscar, Wilt, LeBron, Shaq, Bill Russell over him. I would be tempted to take Chris Paul but he is a few years away from being able to even be considered. Excuse me futurecoach, for actually watching people play and making my own evaluation. I don't get my sports knowledge or education from watching the "hired guns" at ESPN. I don't get mine from stats. I watch, I observe, I compare and Kobe falls short. He is clutch, but to say that no one in the league compares, or that he is so much more clutch than LBJ is unwarranted. Two facts have to be considered:

1. He has played alot longer. More opportunities to succeed. Failures in the NBA are forgotten after multiple successes.

 

 

 

I'm not arguing that Kobe isn't clutch, I just think people say he is going only on either what they hear or what they truely want to believe. Everytime, Kobe has been to the Finals his team was suppose to be there, with the exception of possibly the first title. When has he delivered when he wasn't suppose to? Isn't that part of being clutch? Putting your team on your back and getting them through the tough spots?

 

Trust me man, you can ask people on here I don't form my opinions from what other people say. I mean think about this, I have already stated that I hate Kobe more than anyone else in the league. So why would I form an opinion just based on what people say? I wouldn't want to give him any credit since I hate him, unless I think its true. I have formed my opinion from seeing him time to time again make the big shot at end of games in regular season, and playoffs. Sometimes the big shot is putting the team up 4 points when the team is only up one with a minute or two to go. So yeah those shots won't be replayed over and over like shots at the buzzer, which Kobe has also done. Kobe is the best closer in the game, and has done it for years...Also for you information, just being on a team that is not suppose to be there and leading them there don't make you clutch. It just means you are a great player which Lebron is.

 

You bring up the point that if Kobe misses a shot, that it don't get talked about as much as if Lebron. But think about why that is? I mean your media you talk so much about, wants very much for Lebron to be like MJ. So they are going to do what they can to talk him up just as well. So why would they put Lebron down more? Is it because since Kobe has proven himself as being clutch, that it doesn't need to be talked about as much when he does miss? Because they know he usually would come through on most occasions? With Lebron it keeps getting talked about, because it is LEBRON MISSED AGAIN!..

 

You do realize you basically go against your whole argument here when you talk about how Kobe did miss some early in his career, and how now Kobe has played longer so he has had more chances to succeed. You are making an excuse for why Lebron misses right now. So you basically are admitting right there that Kobe has gotten it done a lot throughout this career after that. Which kind of supports everyones argument here, that RIGHT NOW Kobe is definitely MORE CLUTCH than Lebron. Yeah maybe a few years from now with more chances Lebron will prove he is really clutch. However to this point in his career, he has not. That is why everyone disagrees with you on this one. This is why we get in so many arguments, you really do let your hate of someone a player or a coach, make you form an opinion that you don't have much to back it up with. Yeah we all know you want Lebron to be considered better than Kobe, and right now Lebron is. However when it comes down to clutch player, Kobe still does have him there. I mean a few years from now, Lebron might end up developing that part of his game, and be better than Kobe ever was at the end of games. However at this point and time he is not. We are not talking about the future, we are talking about this time right now in the present. And right now in the present Lebron does not compare to Kobe in the area of being clutch. Lebron does not compare to a few players in the NBA in that area.

 

There is one part of your argument that I did agree with. You named all kinds of all time greats that you would take over Kobe, and I agree I would take all those guys to. I have never once said Kobe is as good as MJ, because I know he is not. Kobe is a great player but not one of the top 5 of all time, maybe not even top 10. So we do agree on that part of it. As you see I don't like Kobe at all, but I don't let my hate of someone cloud my judgement of what I see. Kobe is the better clutch player than Lebron, but Lebron is the better overall player now. :thumb:

[futurecoach]

:thumb: Well said.

 

Thanks! :thumb:

[PurplePride92]

Finally, an example.

 

 

 

They were too awful to have built a 3-1 lead in the playoffs?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No guys I watch plenty of basketball. What I don't watch is the garbage media talking up players or smacking players. You guys watch too much Around the Horn. What I'm saying is the mystique of Kobe is media manufactured and has NEVER been backed up on the floor to the extent of what ever one thinks. We're suppose to be brainwashed into believe that Kobe is every bit MJ's equal when he doesn't even compare. Other than 3pt. shooting Jordan is ALOT better at every OTHER aspect of the game. No questions asked.

And yes I don't like Kobe, but it's not because I'm a LeBron fan. I have disliked Kobe pretty much since 2001 when he started getting the unwarranted Jordan comparisons. And, like I said if he was so clutch, there would be examples. There aren't endless examples like you have for the truely clutch players such as Jordan, Reggie Miller, Magic, etc., him being the so-called most clutch player in the league is manufactured by the media and once again by his obsession with Jordan. I said for the relative amount of time that he has been in the league LeBron is just as clutch. We all can list examples of when he has failed, because they are replayed over and over and people like Skip Bayless go nuts over it. If Kobe misses a game winner, the talk about him missing the shot is over as soon as the next games replay comes on. LeBron's is talked about for days, weeks, years. And yeah they probably should go on and on about it, LeBron is the MOST talented player to ever play the game, and COULD end up as the best player ever.

 

And Futurecoach, I don't think the fued between us will ever end. One thing pal, just because I don't agree with everything that the media says about sports doesn't mean that I know nothing about it. The NBA is my second favorite area of sports, (far behind NCAA football) and I would guarantee I watch more of it than just about anyone. I weould hate to guess how many times I have watched Kobe, and the result is the same every time. I don't see what the hype is about. I think he is the greatest3 pt.SHOOTER off the dribble that I have ever seen. That is it, nothing else he does is as good as people think it is, nothing. There are more athletic players than him, and there are alot better defenders on the wing, namely Bruce Bowen before this year, Tayshaun, Artest, and others. The love affair with Kobe is sickening and unwarranted to the extent that it is at. Like I said he is top 10 all-time when he's done, but people crown him as already being in the top two. He won't even be top 5 if LBJ stays healthy.

 

And you can say what you want about LBJ crying about his team. Put Kobe on a team with Wally Sczerbiak as his 2nd option and see how he reacts. He wasn't satisfied with Bynum and Odom last year, LeBron would have died for that kind of help before Mo arrived. And if you say that Big Z or Ben Wallace is still good, you either don't watch basketball, don't watch the Cavs, or don't know anything about basketball when you watch it.

 

Purple, LBJ did make the finals two years ago. Don't know if that is what you meant, but it is what you said. Point is invalid.

 

My personal biases don't let me not see the realities of sports. My least favorite athlete of all-time is Tim Tebow. I still thought he deseved the Heisman last year, and I defend him when people say he isn't a real QB. Kobe is a great player, but if I had an opportunity to start a franchise with the all-time greats I would definitely pick MJ, Magic, Oscar, Wilt, LeBron, Shaq, Bill Russell over him. I would be tempted to take Chris Paul but he is a few years away from being able to even be considered. Excuse me futurecoach, for actually watching people play and making my own evaluation. I don't get my sports knowledge or education from watching the "hired guns" at ESPN. I don't get mine from stats. I watch, I observe, I compare and Kobe falls short. He is clutch, but to say that no one in the league compares, or that he is so much more clutch than LBJ is unwarranted. Two facts have to be considered:

1. He has played alot longer. More opportunities to succeed. Failures in the NBA are forgotten after multiple successes.

2. He got to play with Shaq and won 3 titles early in his career. Those are two Hall of Famers together, and Shaq couldn't have been stopped then by a semi-truck. If Kobe had not been traded by the Hornets, would his career be looked at the same? No.

3. If you want to throw out 1 huge miss for LeBron, you have to mention the air-balls in the playoffs Kobe shot early in his career. Neither of the misses mean anything, other than their teams lost the game and eventually the series.

 

I'm not arguing that Kobe isn't clutch, I just think people say he is going only on either what they hear or what they truely want to believe. Everytime, Kobe has been to the Finals his team was suppose to be there, with the exception of possibly the first title. When has he delivered when he wasn't suppose to? Isn't that part of being clutch? Putting your team on your back and getting them through the tough spots?

 

 

 

My bad, I completely and totally forgot about the Cavs getting plastered by the Spurs. I don't know how that slipped my mind. I apologize.

 

I guess I can kind of understand your hatred for Kobe, but I am on of the biggest Kobe fans you will find walking this earth and everytime I see or hear the media even try to compare Kobe to Jordan, it is usually a good segment, but everyone ultimately agrees that Kobe will never beat Jordan. There might be a stray media personality who says Kobe is better to provoke a passioned discussion, but no one ever says he is better than Jordan. You yourself said he is a top 10 player of all time though, if you are going to put him in the top 10 of all time, then IMO, I don't see what the harm is in putting him in the Jordan discussion.

 

Besides myself who else has put Kobe in the top 2, and I am biased.

 

That's a question with a speculative answer. Too many factors to take in to properly answer the question of whether or not his career would have been the same in Charlotte.

 

I watched him do that multiple times throughout this year and last. I recall him doing it against San Antonio this year. The Lakers were down about10 points with about 2-3 minutes left. He single handedly took over the game and with less than 5 seconds left he hit a 3 pointer to tie the game and then he ran down the court doing the 'Cerrano from Major League dance'(I'd probably get suspended if I said what it is but it has to do with monkeys and a certain male body part). The game went to overtime and Roger Mason eventually hit the game winning shot. Even though, they lost, that was a clutch moment and it was spectacular to see one man will his team like that, especially when everyone knows he is going to get the ball and they still couldn't stop him.

 

I also remember him missing the game winning shot against the Heat this year, but many clutch shots were made in the 4th quarter before he ultimately missed the game winner.

 

 

Even though they lost that series to the Suns when they were up 3-1, they still weren't supposed to be up 3-1 in the first place. That year's version of the Lakers shouldn't have won 1 game in that series, winning 3 is a testament to his "clutchness", IMO.

[CatsCatsCats]

Trust me man, you can ask people on here I don't form my opinions from what other people say. I mean think about this, I have already stated that I hate Kobe more than anyone else in the league. So why would I form an opinion just based on what people say? I wouldn't want to give him any credit since I hate him, unless I think its true. I have formed my opinion from seeing him time to time again make the big shot at end of games in regular season, and playoffs. Sometimes the big shot is putting the team up 4 points when the team is only up one with a minute or two to go. So yeah those shots won't be replayed over and over like shots at the buzzer, which Kobe has also done. Kobe is the best closer in the game, and has done it for years...Also for you information, just being on a team that is not suppose to be there and leading them there don't make you clutch. It just means you are a great player which Lebron is.

 

You bring up the point that if Kobe misses a shot, that it don't get talked about as much as if Lebron. But think about why that is? I mean your media you talk so much about, wants very much for Lebron to be like MJ. So they are going to do what they can to talk him up just as well. So why would they put Lebron down more? Is it because since Kobe has proven himself as being clutch, that it doesn't need to be talked about as much when he does miss? Because they know he usually would come through on most occasions? With Lebron it keeps getting talked about, because it is LEBRON MISSED AGAIN!..

 

You do realize you basically go against your whole argument here when you talk about how Kobe did miss some early in his career, and how now Kobe has played longer so he has had more chances to succeed. You are making an excuse for why Lebron misses right now. So you basically are admitting right there that Kobe has gotten it done a lot throughout this career after that. Which kind of supports everyones argument here, that RIGHT NOW Kobe is definitely MORE CLUTCH than Lebron. Yeah maybe a few years from now with more chances Lebron will prove he is really clutch. However to this point in his career, he has not. That is why everyone disagrees with you on this one. This is why we get in so many arguments, you really do let your hate of someone a player or a coach, make you form an opinion that you don't have much to back it up with. Yeah we all know you want Lebron to be considered better than Kobe, and right now Lebron is. However when it comes down to clutch player, Kobe still does have him there. I mean a few years from now, Lebron might end up developing that part of his game, and be better than Kobe ever was at the end of games. However at this point and time he is not. We are not talking about the future, we are talking about this time right now in the present. And right now in the present Lebron does not compare to Kobe in the area of being clutch. Lebron does not compare to a few players in the NBA in that area.

 

There is one part of your argument that I did agree with. You named all kinds of all time greats that you would take over Kobe, and I agree I would take all those guys to. I have never once said Kobe is as good as MJ, because I know he is not. Kobe is a great player but not one of the top 5 of all time, maybe not even top 10. So we do agree on that part of it. As you see I don't like Kobe at all, but I don't let my hate of someone cloud my judgement of what I see. Kobe is the better clutch player than Lebron, but Lebron is the better overall player now. :thumb:

 

All I hear is the same thing every time you argue with me. I feel like when we argue about sports, you're reading your points out of a book or off the internet.

As for the bolded part, ummm let's see..........

1. I have never said Kobe wasn't clutch.

2. I was saying that you can't call LeBron NOT clutch if you don't say the same about Kobe if you are only going to bring up one incident.

3. Clutch is delivering down the stretch for your team. It's 25 pts. in the 4th from Reggie Miller, it's the strip of Karl Malone by Jordan followed by one of the most famous shots in NBA history. I know it's not just winning games you're not suppose to win, but that can FACTOR into it.

 

In short, I think it's pathetic that you have to come on here and degrade people. Life is too good and too short to have to insult people to feel better about yourself. I don't care if you agree with me or not, but leave me alone. I get sick of every time I post something you have to come and make fun of it. I posted about LeBron, MY favorite player, a player you don't like. Why does any of this concern you?

[CatsCatsCats]

My bad, I completely and totally forgot about the Cavs getting plastered by the Spurs. I don't know how that slipped my mind. I apologize.

 

I guess I can kind of understand your hatred for Kobe, but I am on of the biggest Kobe fans you will find walking this earth and everytime I see or hear the media even try to compare Kobe to Jordan, it is usually a good segment, but everyone ultimately agrees that Kobe will never beat Jordan. There might be a stray media personality who says Kobe is better to provoke a passioned discussion, but no one ever says he is better than Jordan. You yourself said he is a top 10 player of all time though, if you are going to put him in the top 10 of all time, then IMO, I don't see what the harm is in putting him in the Jordan discussion.

 

Besides myself who else has put Kobe in the top 2, and I am biased.

 

That's a question with a speculative answer. Too many factors to take in to properly answer the question of whether or not his career would have been the same in Charlotte.

 

I watched him do that multiple times throughout this year and last. I recall him doing it against San Antonio this year. The Lakers were down about10 points with about 2-3 minutes left. He single handedly took over the game and with less than 5 seconds left he hit a 3 pointer to tie the game and then he ran down the court doing the 'Cerrano from Major League dance'(I'd probably get suspended if I said what it is but it has to do with monkeys and a certain male body part). The game went to overtime and Roger Mason eventually hit the game winning shot. Even though, they lost, that was a clutch moment and it was spectacular to see one man will his team like that, especially when everyone knows he is going to get the ball and they still couldn't stop him.

 

I also remember him missing the game winning shot against the Heat this year, but many clutch shots were made in the 4th quarter before he ultimately missed the game winner.

 

 

Even though they lost that series to the Suns when they were up 3-1, they still weren't supposed to be up 3-1 in the first place. That year's version of the Lakers shouldn't have won 1 game in that series, winning 3 is a testament to his "clutchness", IMO.

 

Ah, honestly I've tried to erase that embarrassment from my memory as well.

 

Plenty of people put Kobe #2, everytime they say he's as good as Jordan or like Jordan. One of the ESPN guys today had him tied with the Big O at #3 alltime.

 

You make good points here I can respect that though we will never completely agree:thumb:.

[futurecoach]

All I hear is the same thing every time you argue with me. I feel like when we argue about sports, you're reading your points out of a book or off the internet.

As for the bolded part, ummm let's see..........

1. I have never said Kobe wasn't clutch.

2. I was saying that you can't call LeBron NOT clutch if you don't say the same about Kobe if you are only going to bring up one incident.

3. Clutch is delivering down the stretch for your team. It's 25 pts. in the 4th from Reggie Miller, it's the strip of Karl Malone by Jordan followed by one of the most famous shots in NBA history. I know it's not just winning games you're not suppose to win, but that can FACTOR into it.

 

In short, I think it's pathetic that you have to come on here and degrade people. Life is too good and too short to have to insult people to feel better about yourself. I don't care if you agree with me or not, but leave me alone. I get sick of every time I post something you have to come and make fun of it. I posted about LeBron, MY favorite player, a player you don't like. Why does any of this concern you?

 

As I have told you ever since you decided to PM the first time, you really need to learn how to deal with it when people don't agree with you, and not take it personal. You act like I am just arguing this, because I want to argue with you. Its not that, its that I don't agree with your opinion at all, and just so happens we don't agree on much. Probably has to do that you let you bias effect your opinion on most things, and try to convince people that your bias towards a player or a hatred to a player is right. By the way this is the second time you have said something about me, when you have done the same thing with my post when I respond...As I told you I am not a Kobe fan, so I dont make sure I remember every single game winning shot he has had or big shot he has had. However I have seen them, and every single time I was hoping that he would miss the shot, yet he always seemed to make it. You can ask most people on here, I usually am pretty good at not letting my bias to a team or player affect my opinion on how good they are. You take stuff way to personal on here because of all this. I mean yeah I am arguing with you here, because I don't think you have any argument here. Kobe has done it many of times, people on here have seen it happen live, on replays, and just many other times. It has nothing to do with media guys saying it, its from people seeing it themselves. Then people also see the same guy that you keep saying who is just as clutch in Lebron, miss the shots or pass up opportunties to win games. So how is it that everyone else is wrong and your right and Lebron is just as clutch? I mean you go on and on saying stuff about the media trying to make him out to be great. However then couldn't the same thing be said about Lebron? I mean ever since high school the media has hyped him up. Even his first few years in the league, that is who everyone kept talking about, even though someone in his own draft class was doing better than him in Wade. Yet people still just kept talking about Lebron before he ever did anything. The same media people who talked up Kobe do the same thing for Lebron, and you say people fell for what the media has to say about Kobe, so I guess you are guilty of falling for what they say about Lebron then right? That is what the media does, they are going to talk someone up, I mean the NBA went down some after MJ retired, so the media wants to portray people as the next MJ to get interest. They did that now for both Kobe and Lebron. So I don't know why you keep bringing up the media when they do the samething for Lebron..I really dont know why we are in this big discussion about this. I guess it just has to do with you taking stuff personal. I mean yeah as I stated I don't agree with your opinion on this and some other things because they are formed from being bias to one player and maybe hatred to another. You love Lebron and that is great, and you want to stick up for him then fine.

 

I mean a lot of people on here, including me have admitted that Lebron is better than Kobe now. All I am saying and what other people are saying, is that when it comes to clutch play. Kobe still does have him beat in that area, Lebron is not even close in that area yet. I mean I don't know why you would even want to argue that. I mean dont base it on potential, because yeah Lebron after a few more years might develop to be the most clutch player ever. However at this time he is not, Kobe has him beat there. Its really that simple, this whole argument has just been pointless. With that said I do hope Lebron develops a clutch game that is better than Kobes, because even though I don't like Lebron. I hate Kobe even more, so want to see Lebron be better in that area than him as well. But just right now he is not. :thumb:

 

Lets just get this thing back on to just what this thread is. Lebron James is a GREAT player already, and still has lots of POTENTIAL to be even better. It will definitely be exciting to see if he reaches his full potential as a player. If he does reach his full potential, he really might go down as the best ever. :thumb:

[futurecoach]

As I have told you ever since you decided to PM the first time, you really need to learn how to deal with it when people don't agree with you, and not take it personal. You act like I am just arguing this, because I want to argue with you. Its not that, its that I don't agree with your opinion at all, and just so happens we don't agree on much. Probably has to do that you let you bias effect your opinion on most things, and try to convince people that your bias towards a player or a hatred to a player is right. By the way this is the second time you have said something about me, when you have done the same thing with my post when I respond...As I told you I am not a Kobe fan, so I dont make sure I remember every single game winning shot he has had or big shot he has had. However I have seen them, and every single time I was hoping that he would miss the shot, yet he always seemed to make it. You can ask most people on here, I usually am pretty good at not letting my bias to a team or player affect my opinion on how good they are. You take stuff way to personal on here because of all this. I mean yeah I am arguing with you here, because I don't think you have any argument here. Kobe has done it many of times, people on here have seen it happen live, on replays, and just many other times. It has nothing to do with media guys saying it, its from people seeing it themselves. Then people also see the same guy that you keep saying who is just as clutch in Lebron, miss the shots or pass up opportunties to win games. So how is it that everyone else is wrong and your right and Lebron is just as clutch? I mean you go on and on saying stuff about the media trying to make him out to be great. However then couldn't the same thing be said about Lebron? I mean ever since high school the media has hyped him up. Even his first few years in the league, that is who everyone kept talking about, even though someone in his own draft class was doing better than him in Wade. Yet people still just kept talking about Lebron before he ever did anything. The same media people who talked up Kobe do the same thing for Lebron, and you say people fell for what the media has to say about Kobe, so I guess you are guilty of falling for what they say about Lebron then right? That is what the media does, they are going to talk someone up, I mean the NBA went down some after MJ retired, so the media wants to portray people as the next MJ to get interest. They did that now for both Kobe and Lebron. So I don't know why you keep bringing up the media when they do the samething for Lebron..I really dont know why we are in this big discussion about this. I guess it just has to do with you taking stuff personal. I mean yeah as I stated I don't agree with your opinion on this and some other things because they are formed from being bias to one player and maybe hatred to another. You love Lebron and that is great, and you want to stick up for him then fine.

 

I mean a lot of people on here, including me have admitted that Lebron is better than Kobe now. All I am saying and what other people are saying, is that when it comes to clutch play. Kobe still does have him beat in that area, Lebron is not even close in that area yet. I mean I don't know why you would even want to argue that. I mean dont base it on potential, because yeah Lebron after a few more years might develop to be the most clutch player ever. However at this time he is not, Kobe has him beat there. Its really that simple, this whole argument has just been pointless. With that said I do hope Lebron develops a clutch game that is better than Kobes, because even though I don't like Lebron. I hate Kobe even more, so want to see Lebron be better in that area than him as well. But just right now he is not. :thumb:

 

Lets just get this thing back on to just what this thread is. Lebron James is a GREAT player already, and still has lots of POTENTIAL to be even better. It will definitely be exciting to see if he reaches his full potential as a player. If he does reach his full potential, he really might go down as the best ever. :thumb:

 

Well I wish I could go back and delete this, cause I really don't feel like going on anymore on this.

 

Here's hoping to a great NBA playoffs though. :thumb:

[PurplePride92]

Well I wish I could go back and delete this, cause I really don't feel like going on anymore on this.

 

Here's hoping to a great NBA playoffs though. :thumb:

 

 

Amen, but it will only be great if the Lakers beat the Cavs in the Finals.....:thumb:

 

This has been a fun and enlightening thread.

[PurplePride92]

Food for thought..........

 

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

[CatsCatsCats]

Well I wish I could go back and delete this, cause I really don't feel like going on anymore on this.

 

Here's hoping to a great NBA playoffs though. :thumb:

 

My point exactly.

[CatsCatsCats]

Food for thought..........

 

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

 

Thinks for the link, I don't believe in looking at these sort of things, but I think it actually backs up both of our claims. Kobe scores more in the clutch from these stats, and LeBron's stats on this are through the roof. Very cool.

[CatsCatsCats]

As I have told you ever since you decided to PM the first time, you really need to learn how to deal with it when people don't agree with you, and not take it personal. You act like I am just arguing this, because I want to argue with you. Its not that, its that I don't agree with your opinion at all, and just so happens we don't agree on much. Probably has to do that you let you bias effect your opinion on most things, and try to convince people that your bias towards a player or a hatred to a player is right. By the way this is the second time you have said something about me, when you have done the same thing with my post when I respond...As I told you I am not a Kobe fan, so I dont make sure I remember every single game winning shot he has had or big shot he has had. However I have seen them, and every single time I was hoping that he would miss the shot, yet he always seemed to make it. You can ask most people on here, I usually am pretty good at not letting my bias to a team or player affect my opinion on how good they are. You take stuff way to personal on here because of all this. I mean yeah I am arguing with you here, because I don't think you have any argument here. Kobe has done it many of times, people on here have seen it happen live, on replays, and just many other times. It has nothing to do with media guys saying it, its from people seeing it themselves. Then people also see the same guy that you keep saying who is just as clutch in Lebron, miss the shots or pass up opportunties to win games. So how is it that everyone else is wrong and your right and Lebron is just as clutch? I mean you go on and on saying stuff about the media trying to make him out to be great. However then couldn't the same thing be said about Lebron? I mean ever since high school the media has hyped him up. Even his first few years in the league, that is who everyone kept talking about, even though someone in his own draft class was doing better than him in Wade. Yet people still just kept talking about Lebron before he ever did anything. The same media people who talked up Kobe do the same thing for Lebron, and you say people fell for what the media has to say about Kobe, so I guess you are guilty of falling for what they say about Lebron then right? That is what the media does, they are going to talk someone up, I mean the NBA went down some after MJ retired, so the media wants to portray people as the next MJ to get interest. They did that now for both Kobe and Lebron. So I don't know why you keep bringing up the media when they do the samething for Lebron..I really dont know why we are in this big discussion about this. I guess it just has to do with you taking stuff personal. I mean yeah as I stated I don't agree with your opinion on this and some other things because they are formed from being bias to one player and maybe hatred to another. You love Lebron and that is great, and you want to stick up for him then fine.

 

I mean a lot of people on here, including me have admitted that Lebron is better than Kobe now. All I am saying and what other people are saying, is that when it comes to clutch play. Kobe still does have him beat in that area, Lebron is not even close in that area yet. I mean I don't know why you would even want to argue that. I mean dont base it on potential, because yeah Lebron after a few more years might develop to be the most clutch player ever. However at this time he is not, Kobe has him beat there. Its really that simple, this whole argument has just been pointless. With that said I do hope Lebron develops a clutch game that is better than Kobes, because even though I don't like Lebron. I hate Kobe even more, so want to see Lebron be better in that area than him as well. But just right now he is not. :thumb:

 

Lets just get this thing back on to just what this thread is. Lebron James is a GREAT player already, and still has lots of POTENTIAL to be even better. It will definitely be exciting to see if he reaches his full potential as a player. If he does reach his full potential, he really might go down as the best ever. :thumb:

 

Bold part would kinda contradict what I said. I don't care if anyone agrees with me, and also as stated before I CAN give CREDIT where it is due. I called the Mamba a top 10 player all-time, what more could you want? Just because I don't drink the Kobe cool-aid doesn't mean I let my bias get in my way.

 

The underlined part is the basis for what we've agrued about here. No one has given me enough to sway my opinion. Kobe is a fine player, and makes plays when the game is on the line. So does LeBron. They are really about equal in that. We'll see in the playoffs.

 

The part in italics.....umm no. If I am going to compare a player to Jordan's greatness, and by saying that LeBron could possibly reach him one day, is doing just that, I wouldn't do that on hype. LBJ makes huge plays for his team, just like every other superstar.