Lebron James

[PurplePride92]

Thinks for the link, I don't believe in looking at these sort of things, but I think it actually backs up both of our claims. Kobe scores more in the clutch from these stats, and LeBron's stats on this are through the roof. Very cool.

 

Yeah, I forgot about that website. They make stats for almost anything you can think of that involves the NBA.

 

Yeah, LBJ's stats are indeed staggering.

[DragonFire]

This is game winners:

 

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

[CatsCatsCats]

This is game winners:

 

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

 

Well, thanks Dragonfire. Like I said, I don't know how much stock to take in these.....BUT..............looks like, even if you don't agree with what I say, it does have at least a little bit of merit. Any comment, FC?

 

Leading "Game Winning Shot" Players

Player Fgm Fga Fg% Ftm Fta Ast T/O

League Wide 853 2858 .298 610 815 352 296

LeBron James 17 50 .340 14 20 6 4

Vince Carter 16 51 .314 10 11 3 4

Ray Allen 15 39 .385 4 6 1 2

Kobe Bryant 14 56 .250 12 15 1 5

Carmelo Anthony 13 27 .481 7 11 1 4

Allen Iverson 13 33 .394 6 8 1 2

Ben Gordon 12 34 .353 6 6 1 4

Dirk Nowitzki 12 37 .324 13 18 1 3

Joe Johnson 12 45 .267 2 3 4 2

Paul Pierce 11 32 .344 15 17 9 3

Dwyane Wade 11 40 .275 13 17 3 2

 

...and then we get to Kobe Bryant. Kobe fans don't like to hear it, but while their man is #4 in the league in total game winners hit, he holds the top spot in a less glamorous category: most game winning opportunity missed shots!

 

42 - Kobe

35 - Vince Carter

33 - Joe Johnson, LeBron

32 - Crawford

31 - Billups

 

Now we're not Kobe haters by any means and I will readily give him his due as one of the best NBA players (note however, I didn't say the best) but he certainly has an overblown reputation when it comes to the clutch shot: people remember the ones he hits, but not the ones he misses, and heck you think a 56 FGA to 1 assist ratio might be part of the problem?

 

Ha ha ha...... the chalk is yours.

[futurecoach]

Well, thanks Dragonfire. Like I said, I don't know how much stock to take in these.....BUT..............looks like, even if you don't agree with what I say, it does have at least a little bit of merit. Any comment, FC?

 

 

 

 

 

Ha ha ha...... the chalk is yours.

 

Edit...I just deleted my post, because I realized responding to you calling me out (especially for no reason) would get me into trouble on here. So I will just say this. Look closely at our arguments and the points I have made, you will see that it really does not go against anything I have said. It is a nice little thing they put together. Even though doesn't help you in our argument, since it doesn't go against much of what I have said. :thumb:

[CatsCatsCats]

I think you continually call me out one here saying that I know nothing about what I'm talking about. I only respond to your post and keep this arguments going when you go after me.

And what they said is my argument. Kobe isn't as clutch as people say he is. Not saying that those stats show the whole story, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks that way. And I don't see how it helps what you said. Not saying that it hurts it, because compiling loose stats is pointless.

[futurecoach]

I think you continually call me out one here saying that I know nothing about what I'm talking about. I only respond to your post and keep this arguments going when you go after me.

And what they said is my argument. Kobe isn't as clutch as people say he is. Not saying that those stats show the whole story, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks that way. And I don't see how it helps what you said. Not saying that it hurts it, because compiling loose stats is pointless.

 

Every single one of your post you come after me as well. So its not all me. Lets just stop right there. But once again look back to what I have said in my arguments. I have talked about clutch play at end of games and Kobe making the shots. Lot of times he makes the shot when his team up one or two in final minute and puts game out of reach. When team needs a big bucket late, he is the one who delivers. People on here have also stated several times when he has made shots at the buzzer to send the team into overtime. So since you feel the need to call me out, and act like those stats back you up.Then lets look at this a little deeper shall we. We been talking about who is more clutch correct. Well lets look at these stats ok.

Here are what they call the "clutch" stats on that site, hmm its kind of weird that they use the word clutch for the same thing we are talking about. Who is the one who is ranked first for clutch for this year?:sssh:

 

For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points

 

This is for this season.

 

LAL Bryant 40 137 106 +37 38.8 .468 10.1 .414 17.8 92% 57.0 15% 8.7 5.9 2.8 0.0 1.0

CLE James 30 110 99 +43 30.9 .549 8.3 .421 20.9 85% 55.3 20% 13.9 12.6 4.8 1.7 3.5

DEN Anthony 24 82 16 +9 26.9 .565 7.0 .583 24.0 82% 54.4 57% 7.6 2.9 1.2 0.0 1.2

MIA Wade 44 189 17 +4 32.7 .481 7.9 .290 22.8 73% 50.5 12% 5.3 9.1 4.3 5.1 3.0

NOH Paul 40 130 44 +16 29.5 .512 2.6 .429 17.3 91% 47.2 9% 5.9 10.3 4.4 0.4 4.8

NYK Robinson 36 112 -46 -20 28.7 .433 10.7 .200 18.4 95% 44.6 31% 5.1 3.4 2.1 0.0 0.4

POR Roy 37 165 -13 -4 28.3 .464 4.7 .188 16.0 90% 41.7 11% 7.9 6.1 2.6 0.9 1.7

DAL Nowitzki 39 145 44 +15 32.2 .392 7.6 .304 15.9 83% 40.8 44% 11.6 2.0 1.7 1.3 0.7

BOS Pierce 41 175 38 +10 23.3 .447 3.6 .462 19.2 84% 38.7 26% 5.8 6.6 4.1 0.0 1.4

 

 

 

For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points

 

This is back from 2006 I believe it said on there. Hmmm guess who is still at #1

 

Points Scored per 48 Minutes

Player/Team/Clutch/All

1Bryant LAL 46.3 32.4

2Gordon CHI 45.5 30.3

3Francis ORL 43.5 27.6

4O'Neal IND 43.1 33.5

5Nowitzki DAL 42.7 32.2

6Ginobili SA 41.6 25.7

7Wade MIA 41.4 29.6

8Richardson GS 41.3 28.2

9Nash PHO 39.5 22.4

10Stoudemire PHO 38.9 34.8

 

So as I said for our argument which was talking about who was more clutch. Your little thing didn't prove anything at our, so you called me out for nothing. I mean here is exactly what we have been talking about, in who is more clutch, and well it is Kobe still. As you seen Kobe was also rated #1 in clutch a few years ago as well. So proves Kobe has been being clutch for awhile and still is. I will admit that Lebron is higher up than I thought he would be. However Kobe is still ranked ahead of him as for as being clutch, and so Lebron is not just as clutch as Kobe is as you have said. Which started this whole argument. Lebron is closer than I thought, but still not there yet. So goes back to what I have said before, Lebron might just pass Kobe on being who is more clutch one day. However still at this time he is not. So we have had this whole argument for no reason. So no reason for this to go on. I am sure we will find something else to disagree about soon enough though. (which by the way I do like our discussions even though we just keep going back and forth. :thumb:)

[futurecoach]

Yeah, I forgot about that website. They make stats for almost anything you can think of that involves the NBA.

 

Yeah, LBJ's stats are indeed staggering.

 

:thumb:

[CatsCatsCats]

Every single one of your post you come after me as well. So its not all me. Lets just stop right there. But once again look back to what I have said in my arguments. I have talked about clutch play at end of games and Kobe making the shots. Lot of times he makes the shot when his team up one or two in final minute and puts game out of reach. When team needs a big bucket late, he is the one who delivers. People on here have also stated several times when he has made shots at the buzzer to send the team into overtime. So since you feel the need to call me out, and act like those stats back you up.Then lets look at this a little deeper shall we. We been talking about who is more clutch correct. Well lets look at these stats ok.

Here are what they call the "clutch" stats on that site, hmm its kind of weird that they use the word clutch for the same thing we are talking about. Who is the one who is ranked first for clutch for this year?:sssh:

 

For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points

 

This is for this season.

 

LAL Bryant 40 137 106 +37 38.8 .468 10.1 .414 17.8 92% 57.0 15% 8.7 5.9 2.8 0.0 1.0

CLE James 30 110 99 +43 30.9 .549 8.3 .421 20.9 85% 55.3 20% 13.9 12.6 4.8 1.7 3.5

DEN Anthony 24 82 16 +9 26.9 .565 7.0 .583 24.0 82% 54.4 57% 7.6 2.9 1.2 0.0 1.2

MIA Wade 44 189 17 +4 32.7 .481 7.9 .290 22.8 73% 50.5 12% 5.3 9.1 4.3 5.1 3.0

NOH Paul 40 130 44 +16 29.5 .512 2.6 .429 17.3 91% 47.2 9% 5.9 10.3 4.4 0.4 4.8

NYK Robinson 36 112 -46 -20 28.7 .433 10.7 .200 18.4 95% 44.6 31% 5.1 3.4 2.1 0.0 0.4

POR Roy 37 165 -13 -4 28.3 .464 4.7 .188 16.0 90% 41.7 11% 7.9 6.1 2.6 0.9 1.7

DAL Nowitzki 39 145 44 +15 32.2 .392 7.6 .304 15.9 83% 40.8 44% 11.6 2.0 1.7 1.3 0.7

BOS Pierce 41 175 38 +10 23.3 .447 3.6 .462 19.2 84% 38.7 26% 5.8 6.6 4.1 0.0 1.4

 

 

 

For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points

 

This is back from 2006 I believe it said on there. Hmmm guess who is still at #1

 

Points Scored per 48 Minutes

Player/Team/Clutch/All

1Bryant LAL 46.3 32.4

2Gordon CHI 45.5 30.3

3Francis ORL 43.5 27.6

4O'Neal IND 43.1 33.5

5Nowitzki DAL 42.7 32.2

6Ginobili SA 41.6 25.7

7Wade MIA 41.4 29.6

8Richardson GS 41.3 28.2

9Nash PHO 39.5 22.4

10Stoudemire PHO 38.9 34.8

 

So as I said for our argument which was talking about who was more clutch. Your little thing didn't prove anything at our, so you called me out for nothing. I mean here is exactly what we have been talking about, in who is more clutch, and well it is Kobe still. As you seen Kobe was also rated #1 in clutch a few years ago as well. So proves Kobe has been being clutch for awhile and still is. I will admit that Lebron is higher up than I thought he would be. However Kobe is still ranked ahead of him as for as being clutch, and so Lebron is not just as clutch as Kobe is as you have said. Which started this whole argument. Lebron is closer than I thought, but still not there yet. So goes back to what I have said before, Lebron might just pass Kobe on being who is more clutch one day. However still at this time he is not. So we have had this whole argument for no reason. So no reason for this to go on. I am sure we will find something else to disagree about soon enough though. (which by the way I do like our discussions even though we just keep going back and forth. :thumb:)

 

I don't see how Bryant's stats are better than James' in the clutch according to that list. Bryant averages two more points per 48 clutch minutes and shoots a better FT%. That is about it. LBJ's is 2nd in points per 48 in clutch situations at 55 ppg, and the other stats for LBJ are purely insane and off the charts. IF you were going to go only on these two different stat sources, WHICH NO ONE SHOULD OR WOULD DO, you couldn't possibly say Kobe was more clutch. Not possible with the stats given. And the stats go back the past 5 years, so the 2006 stats would be kinda hard for LBJ to really factor in condsidering he would have only played in 3 of those years, two of them in his teens. I don't see the argument.

 

BTW, these arguments are actually really fun. Nothing personal of course.:thumb:

[PurplePride92]

I don't see how Bryant's stats are better than James' in the clutch according to that list. Bryant averages two more points per 48 clutch minutes and shoots a better FT%. That is about it. LBJ's is 2nd in points per 48 in clutch situations at 55 ppg, and the other stats for LBJ are purely insane and off the charts. IF you were going to go only on these two different stat sources, WHICH NO ONE SHOULD OR WOULD DO, you couldn't possibly say Kobe was more clutch. Not possible with the stats given. And the stats go back the past 5 years, so the 2006 stats would be kinda hard for LBJ to really factor in condsidering he would have only played in 3 of those years, two of them in his teens. I don't see the argument.

 

BTW, these arguments are actually really fun. Nothing personal of course.:thumb:

 

 

I think because Kobe scores more points than LBJ, even though it is only 2 measly points, it is still what gets him the number 1 ranking in the clutch rating. LBJ is number 1 in game winners though, so be happy with that. LBJ is the man with 24 seconds left in the game, Kobe is the man with 5 minutes or less left in the game.

 

For arguments sake, we'll call it a draw.:thumb:

 

And I would still want Kobe taking the last shot for my team. :popcorn:

[PurplePride92]

"Now we're not Kobe haters by any means and I will readily give him his due as one of the best NBA players (note however, I didn't say the best) but he certainly has an overblown reputation when it comes to the clutch shot: people remember the ones he hits, but not the ones he misses, and heck you think a 56 FGA to 1 assist ratio might be part of the problem?"

 

 

No, I don't. I think when he has guys around him worthy of taking that shot, then it would go up, but since Shaq's departure, when the ball is put in someone's hands not named Kobe Bryant with the game on the line, something stupid happens. I'd rather have a guy like Kobe who has no conscience and embraces taking that last shot, than someone who is going to look to pass up that shot and make the "extra pass". No one remembers who got the game winning assist. They remember who took the shot though, and it takes a short memory to even have the guts to take that shot. All those league leading game winning misses mean to me is that he will live to fight another day to play for glory. I'll take that.

 

I mentioned one of the misses. This year against the Heat in Miami. Kobe missed the game winner. I know I mentioned that miss. I woke my wife up when he missed it.

[CatsCatsCats]

I think because Kobe scores more points than LBJ, even though it is only 2 measly points, it is still what gets him the number 1 ranking in the clutch rating. LBJ is number 1 in game winners though, so be happy with that. LBJ is the man with 24 seconds left in the game, Kobe is the man with 5 minutes or less left in the game.

 

For arguments sake, we'll call it a draw.:thumb:

 

And I would still want Kobe taking the last shot for my team. :popcorn:

 

I agree, because if you were to put it to actual game number 2pts per 48 clutch minutes, would be about .005 of a point. That's pretty close.

 

Draw it is.:thumb:

[PurplePride92]

Another great one from the past.