Well I wasn't trying to get at that, that he would miss the shot. I was asking about things like playoff games that he hit the winning shot in. The truly great hit the clutch shots in those situations. Kobe may be a victim of opportunity there, that he hasn't been needed to make the shot. I don't know.

 

I know, I think I came off wrong. I was trying to say what you said. You said it way better than I did though. I can't recall any situation where he was needed to make that shot. He usually takes the game over in the 4th and they win, or he as they like to say "forced to many shots" and the Lakers lose.

Jordan has by far greater moments than Kobe or LeBron and probably always will. The love affair began very early with Jordan and continues on to this day. If not for Jordan then the Kobe's, TMac's, Vince Carter's probably don't exist as they do today. I'll be honest, I never liked Jordan and I never will. I respected and was amazed by his exploits on the court, but no, I never drank the MJ kool aid nor did I see the world with red and black tinted sunglasses. He is arguably the best to ever play the game and if he wasn't a unanimous pick for the hall of famethis year, then the person who didn't vote for him should have his voting privileges revoked. At the same time, no player will ever be revered as Jordan was on and off the court. I will also always take Kobe over Jordan because Kobe, IMO is a Jordan clone and I like him better than Jordan. It's just my personal preference. In my eyes they are very similar players and had Kobe come along at the same time as Jordan and Jordan come along when Kobe came out in 96, then we very well could be having a different discussion about who is the best amongst LeBron, Kobe and Jordan.

 

For the record....

 

Jordan is better than Kobe and Lebron

 

Kobe is better than LeBron.....for now

 

LeBron will probably end up being the best ever...at least I hope he does...

 

I would still take Kobe over both because he is my favorite player ever. I truly feel in my heart of hearts that I am not giving up much by taking 5 less points, 1-2 rebounds and 1-2 assists per game by taking Kobe over MJ. And if I did so be it......I'll ride with #24 everyday all day.

 

And also, my favorite MJ moment(even though I don't like him) was when Rex Chapman put 39 on Sir Michael in a game and Rex had the gall to talk junk to MJ the whole game while he was ballin on MJ. Of course MJ is "the most fierce competitor ever" and it just so happened that they were playing Rex's team(Heat maybe) the very next night in a home and home series. What does Jordan do to get back at Rex....he put 29 points on him.......in the first half. I think he ended up scoring over 50 points that game.

 

I always liked that story.

Don't know where that came from. I seem to recall all the NBA experts picking the Celtics to win. Last year all everyone talked about was that it was the Celtics year AND they had homecourt in the Finals. The Lakers were never favored to beat the Celtics and it's hard to say embarrassed by the Celtics when the Celtics were the best team in the NBA throughout the regular season and playoffs.

 

Didn't get that impression. I don't know I watch ESPN and it seemed like they thought the Lakers would win. And losing by like 100 in the final game is embarrassing if you're the Lakers or the Thunder or whoever.

Did I say it was meaningless? I mean that was remarkable what he did in that game. That was very clutch of him for that game...I don't remember to many other ones by him. Both Lebron and Kobe score a lot of points. However Kobe has came up with the shot at the end of the games that Lebron has not. Kobe has shown that killer instinct to close out a game, Lebron has not yet. Lebron is still very young, so he very well can develop that, but right now he has not.

 

By the way as for the Pistons series that the Cavs won a few years ago. It just goes back to what I been saying, Lebron's supporting cast is not that bad like you all say. Yeah offensively if you compare them to others they were not as talented, however they were still one of the best defensive teams in the league then. So just goes to what I am saying, is that is perfect situation. You play on a team who can stop people, then add in a star player who can score when they want and create shots for other than your going to do good. I mean that was a good matchup for the Cavs. The Pistons were a very good team. But what were they known for? That is right they were known for defense. The Cavs were also known for defense, so those two would cancel each other out. Who had the one big star though on their team? That would be the Cavs in Lebron. If your a great defensive team, then your going to win lots of games. Add a star into the mix, and you do even better. That is the one reason why the Pistons didn't win more than one title, they were a great defensive team with guys who can score some. But they had no one who could just take over a game when they had to. The Cavs are basically the Pistons, with a star player who can take over a game. So yeah I don't buy the whole thing about him not having a good team around him. It just comes on the defensive end.

 

Back on subject though, I can't believe your even comparing the two in Kobe and Lebron when it comes to who has been more clutch though. I mean most people on here know that I HATE Kobe, so I wouldn't be defending him if I didn't believe it. Lebron is not in Kobe's category when it comes to clutch play at end of games, and neither is close to MJ though.

 

Once again when has Kobe ever been clutch?? LeBron has one playoff moment. When was Kobe's? I can't believe you are arguing man. If you don't think LeBron would have done the same with Shaq, if not more then you haven't watched much of him. 81 pts. isn't clutch. It was against the RAPTORS in the REGULAR season. LeBron could do that, DWade could do that, Jordan could have done that. No big deal. They had more to their games than scoring, if you don't want to admit that, then that's fine.

Jordan has by far greater moments than Kobe or LeBron and probably always will. The love affair began very early with Jordan and continues on to this day. If not for Jordan then the Kobe's, TMac's, Vince Carter's probably don't exist as they do today. I'll be honest, I never liked Jordan and I never will. I respected and was amazed by his exploits on the court, but no, I never drank the MJ kool aid nor did I see the world with red and black tinted sunglasses. He is arguably the best to ever play the game and if he wasn't a unanimous pick for the hall of famethis year, then the person who didn't vote for him should have his voting privileges revoked. At the same time, no player will ever be revered as Jordan was on and off the court. I will also always take Kobe over Jordan because Kobe, IMO is a Jordan clone and I like him better than Jordan. It's just my personal preference. In my eyes they are very similar players and had Kobe come along at the same time as Jordan and Jordan come along when Kobe came out in 96, then we very well could be having a different discussion about who is the best amongst LeBron, Kobe and Jordan.

 

For the record....

 

Jordan is better than Kobe and Lebron

 

Kobe is better than LeBron.....for now

 

LeBron will probably end up being the best ever...at least I hope he does...

 

I would still take Kobe over both because he is my favorite player ever. I truly feel in my heart of hearts that I am not giving up much by taking 5 less points, 1-2 rebounds and 1-2 assists per game by taking Kobe over MJ. And if I did so be it......I'll ride with #24 everyday all day.

 

And also, my favorite MJ moment(even though I don't like him) was when Rex Chapman put 39 on Sir Michael in a game and Rex had the gall to talk junk to MJ the whole game while he was ballin on MJ. Of course MJ is "the most fierce competitor ever" and it just so happened that they were playing Rex's team(Heat maybe) the very next night in a home and home series. What does Jordan do to get back at Rex....he put 29 points on him.......in the first half. I think he ended up scoring over 50 points that game.

 

I always liked that story.

 

I think you made our argument for us. JMO. You don't have to agree.

Once again when has Kobe ever been clutch?? LeBron has one playoff moment. When was Kobe's? I can't believe you are arguing man. If you don't think LeBron would have done the same with Shaq, if not more then you haven't watched much of him. 81 pts. isn't clutch. It was against the RAPTORS in the REGULAR season. LeBron could do that, DWade could do that, Jordan could have done that. No big deal. They had more to their games than scoring, if you don't want to admit that, then that's fine.

 

When has Kobe ever been clutch? You must not watch any basketball.

On his recent "60 Minutes" interview he says he's 6'9 260.

On his recent "60 Minutes" interview he says he's 6'9 260.

 

That is crazy.

On his recent "60 Minutes" interview he says he's 6'9 260.

 

I caught that too.

 

He's listed as 6'8'' 250...

Once again when has Kobe ever been clutch?? LeBron has one playoff moment. When was Kobe's? I can't believe you are arguing man. If you don't think LeBron would have done the same with Shaq, if not more then you haven't watched much of him. 81 pts. isn't clutch. It was against the RAPTORS in the REGULAR season. LeBron could do that, DWade could do that, Jordan could have done that. No big deal. They had more to their games than scoring, if you don't want to admit that, then that's fine.

 

For the first bolded part Original Rookie already has the perfect response to that.

 

Second bolded part, you think 81 points is no big deal? You make it sound like it was such an easy thing to do. I really think if MJ could have done it, then he would have made sure he did it. 81 points is just a really hard thing to do, and not as easy as you seem to make it out to be. Lebron could not have done it at this point of his career, and even though I love Wade neither could he... I can't believe you are talking to me about saying their is more to the game than scoring. Have you not been reading about what I have been saying? I have been saying that exact same thing on here, when talking about Lebrons supporting cast is not as bad as you all make it out to me. It hasn't been that bad the last few years. Yeah he didn't have any other real top scorers with him, but he played on one of the best defensive teams in the league for the last few years. Which is perfect setup for a star player. So his supporting cast is good, it just comes on the defensive side of the ball. I have said that a few times now, and you try to still tell me that there is more to the game than just scoring? I mean wow, I have been saying that all thread. As I said before I hate Kobe, I hate him more than anyone in the league. However I will give credit where credit is due, and that 81 point game was amazing. Also he is the best clutch player in the NBA. I will also add in that at end of games Wade is also more clutch than Lebron. That is still the one thing missing from Lebrons game, even though I will admit he is getting better at it.

On his recent "60 Minutes" interview he says he's 6'9 260.

 

He is a freak of an athlete.

I think you made our argument for us. JMO. You don't have to agree.

 

In a round about way I am agreeing with you guys. The stats back up Jordan and LeBron, but a case can still be made for Kobe, IMO. My post is more or less conceding that point to you guys because in all reality, I would still take Kobe over both of them.

Kobe has been named to at least 6 All-Defensive First Teams in his career. He is regarded as the best on the ball lock down defender in the league, thus the reasoning behind his being elected to at least 6 All-Defensive First Teams.

 

Kobe is much more than just a scorer, however, he will go down as one of the best scorers in basketball. His basketball I.Q. is another thing that I believe sets him apart from LeBron as well.

 

For his career he is averaging 25.1 pts, 5.3 rbs, 4.6 assists, and 1.5 stls per game. Not LeBron numbers, but still very impressive nonetheless, especially taking in the fact that he played the Pippen role while with Shaq. LeBron has always been the Jordan.

 

Kobe's 81 point game is arguably the best individual performance ever in an NBA game, he also only had 2 dunks and 2 layups that game. All of the rest of the points were jumpers and free throws. I think if any NBA player was that locked into the zone, they would have had 2 assists also. Being in that much of a zone is a once in a lifetime opportunity and I will not be one of those folks who says, "yeah but he only had 2 assists" to try to downplay the amazing accomplishment that it was. Even LeBron would only have 2 assists if he had 81 points. Not to mention, the Lakers were losing that game until Kobe exploded for 55 points in the 2nd half to lead the Lakers to victory. It may have "just been the Raptors", but they were losing until he took over. Would that qualify as a "clutch" moment for Kobe or does that not count since it was in the regular season?

Don't know where that came from. I seem to recall all the NBA experts picking the Celtics to win. Last year all everyone talked about was that it was the Celtics year AND they had homecourt in the Finals. The Lakers were never favored to beat the Celtics and it's hard to say embarrassed by the Celtics when the Celtics were the best team in the NBA throughout the regular season and playoffs.

 

Lebron took Boston to the brink in the playoffs last season...and would have probably eliminated them if he hadn't missed a shot from 3 feet.

 

Kobe took a better supporting cast and couldn't make it interesting vs. Boston.

 

Lebron is better.

Kobe has been named to at least 6 All-Defensive First Teams in his career. He is regarded as the best on the ball lock down defender in the league, thus the reasoning behind his being elected to at least 6 All-Defensive First Teams.

 

Kobe is much more than just a scorer, however, he will go down as one of the best scorers in basketball. His basketball I.Q. is another thing that I believe sets him apart from LeBron as well.

 

For his career he is averaging 25.1 pts, 5.3 rbs, 4.6 assists, and 1.5 stls per game. Not LeBron numbers, but still very impressive nonetheless, especially taking in the fact that he played the Pippen role while with Shaq. LeBron has always been the Jordan.

 

Kobe's 81 point game is arguably the best individual performance ever in an NBA game, he also only had 2 dunks and 2 layups that game. All of the rest of the points were jumpers and free throws. I think if any NBA player was that locked into the zone, they would have had 2 assists also. Being in that much of a zone is a once in a lifetime opportunity and I will not be one of those folks who says, "yeah but he only had 2 assists" to try to downplay the amazing accomplishment that it was. Even LeBron would only have 2 assists if he had 81 points. Not to mention, the Lakers were losing that game until Kobe exploded for 55 points in the 2nd half to lead the Lakers to victory. It may have "just been the Raptors", but they were losing until he took over. Would that qualify as a "clutch" moment for Kobe or does that not count since it was in the regular season?

 

That qualifies as one of the greatest performances in NBA history by an individual...maybe the best, as you said.

 

However, a regular season win against the Raptors probably isn't a trophy case moment in the "clutch" HOF. I'm thinking more along the lines of playoff games or regular season showdowns with rivals/top teams in the league.

 

JMO