Bonds chasing history. The countdown.

[Watusi]

I hope Barry doesn't break the record and it has nothing to do with steroids. Its a personal thing, nothing complicated, I just don't like him.

[DragonFire]

You expect him to try & not hit a homerun when it could help his team win games?....k

 

Go Bonds. I'll be watching.

 

I expected him to RETIRE. Don't quote me on it, but I could swear I remember him saying he didn't want to pass Hank in the time before he passed Babe Ruth.

[DragonFire]

If the total list of names of MLB players that has cheated ever comes out, you'll be in for a big surprise, I'm afraid. They will have to erase all history of baseball and just start over with no stats.

 

You're telling me you think Hank Aaron cheated?

 

And let's separate cheating from the other vices here. Gambling (as long as it's not on baseball), drinking, recreational drug use, they're all bad and they're all negatives to the game, but none of them are cheating which impugns the records that have been set. I'd rather see all the cheaters out of baseball, and if that meant 50%-90% of the league so be it. But none of them are breaking a record that is hallowed like this one, and none of them are doing it to a great man like Hank Aaron.

 

As I said, Barry is a great hitter, a great player, and belongs in the hall. Steroids alone did not make him great, and steroids alone did not give him this record. But they helped. They enhanced his ability in such a way that was an unfair advantage, or CHEATING to the lay person. He does not deserve this record.

[UKMustangFan]

^Did you feel this strongly about BigMac and Sosa when they were chasing Maris' record?

 

Once again, I want factual proof that Bonds knowingly did steroids....Until that can be provided he never used.

 

Do you feel this way about guys like Giambi or Sheffield or is this criticisim reserved specifically for Barry?

[bugatti]

I am not saying I feel sorry for Barry, but when Barry got on the kick of doing steroids, he was doing the EXACT same thing others were doing. Bonds is being penalized more because he is better than most...

 

Here is something I stated about a year ago on here...

 

Baseball created its OWN culture by glamourizing Home Run freaks like Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa. Bonds is nothing more than another piece of the puzzle.. And part of me says, hey, why not glamourize it. HRs are fun, they bring people to the park (which baseball struggles with), it is interesting, etc... But, baseball did not figure a jerk would be at the heels of passing up the legends of the game. Bonds got into something many many others were doing (not saying it is right) and benefited from the results; same for a multitude of other players the past 20 years. Baseball is just so stat driven and lives in the past with former players, the idea of a player actually breaking some of these beloved stats irritates some to no end (whether it is legitimate or not).

 

If baseball did not care enough at the time to stop all the steroid users, I think it is a little unfair to single out Barry for what he has done.

[bugatti]

I am not saying I feel sorry for Barry, but when Barry got on the kick of doing steroids, he was doing the EXACT same thing others were doing. Bonds is being penalized more because he is better than most...

 

Here is something I stated about a year ago on here...

 

Baseball created its OWN culture by glamourizing Home Run freaks like Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa. Bonds is nothing more than another piece of the puzzle.. And part of me says, hey, why not glamourize it. HRs are fun, they bring people to the park (which baseball struggles with), it is interesting, etc... But, baseball did not figure a jerk would be at the heels of passing up the legends of the game. Bonds got into something many many others were doing (not saying it is right) and benefited from the results; same for a multitude of other players the past 20 years. Baseball is just so stat driven and lives in the past with former players, the idea of a player actually breaking some of these beloved stats irritates some to no end (whether it is legitimate or not).

 

If baseball did not care enough at the time to stop all the steroid users, I think it is a little unfair to single out Barry for what he has done.

 

Responded to wrong quote

[Wireman]

You're telling me you think Hank Aaron cheated?

 

And let's separate cheating from the other vices here. Gambling (as long as it's not on baseball), drinking, recreational drug use, they're all bad and they're all negatives to the game, but none of them are cheating which impugns the records that have been set. I'd rather see all the cheaters out of baseball, and if that meant 50%-90% of the league so be it. But none of them are breaking a record that is hallowed like this one, and none of them are doing it to a great man like Hank Aaron.

 

As I said, Barry is a great hitter, a great player, and belongs in the hall. Steroids alone did not make him great, and steroids alone did not give him this record. But they helped. They enhanced his ability in such a way that was an unfair advantage, or CHEATING to the lay person. He does not deserve this record.

 

I can't say he's a cheater until it is proven in a court of law that he knowingly took steroids. Another way to look at it - is it really cheating if there are no rules against it and no testing? If the pitchers and other players are doing it, is it really cheating?

[Wireman]

A-Rod never magically gained 30 pounds of muscle in his thirties to become a completely different player than he used to be. He's always been the same sized, same high class, high character guy. Barry Bonds is a pompus jerk who is ruining the game. I really don't understand why you're defending him.

 

I'm defending him because even though he's a jerk, he's the greatest hitter of our time. What he does on the field is all I care about and its hard to deny his numbers.

[stickymitts]

Personally, I don't like Bonds because he's about as ungrateful as a person can be getting paid A LOT of money playing a child's game. On top of that, I do believe he used steroids. The only problem is, 1) how do you truly prove that he was taking them, 2) how do you prove the people he was playing against were not using them 3) how do you know where he would be without using them. Like him or not he's one of the best all time.

 

The only thing I fear is that he will break the record (and he will) and we'll find out years later that he used steroids for the majority of his career. I think it will set the game back further than the strike did. The most hallowed record in all of sport broken by a steroid user...

[DragonFire]

I can't say he's a cheater until it is proven in a court of law that he knowingly took steroids. Another way to look at it - is it really cheating if there are no rules against it and no testing? If the pitchers and other players are doing it, is it really cheating?

 

 

There was no testing at the time because the players union is super strong and was against it (I wonder why). When some of the players began to realize it reflected badly on them as a whole when a few were caught, they agreed to testing. Steroids on the other hand, have been banned for a while. Since 1991 in fact (following steroids being identified as a controlled substance via a memo here, specifically mentioned on page 2 of the memo). So to say there were no rules against it is wrong. So since there was a rule, and Barry broke it (even unknowingly), it's cheating. Ignorance is not an excuse, and I think it's funny to indicate it is. Ever tried telling an officer you didn't know you were speeding? They'll usually write you a ticket anyway because you still broke the law. To use a sports analogy, in track and field or cycling, it really doesn't matter how the steroids or performance enhancers got into your system (think Marion Jones, Floyd Landis, etc.), they're going to strip you of your victory regardless. So too should it be with records set or awards given while using illegal substances (think Merriman out of the NFL).

 

As far as if the pitchers and other players are doing it, if 100% are not doing it, then it's cheating. It's OK (I guess) when either literally EVERYONE is doing it, or they are allowed to by the rules, in which case if they don't that's their own choice.

[BoondockSaint]

There was no testing at the time because the players union is super strong and was against it (I wonder why). When some of the players began to realize it reflected badly on them as a whole when a few were caught, they agreed to testing. Steroids on the other hand, have been banned for a while. Since 1991 in fact (following steroids being identified as a controlled substance via a memo here, specifically mentioned on page 2 of the memo). So to say there were no rules against it is wrong. So since there was a rule, and Barry broke it (even unknowingly), it's cheating. Ignorance is not an excuse, and I think it's funny to indicate it is. Ever tried telling an officer you didn't know you were speeding? They'll usually write you a ticket anyway because you still broke the law. To use a sports analogy, in track and field or cycling, it really doesn't matter how the steroids or performance enhancers got into your system (think Marion Jones, Floyd Landis, etc.), they're going to strip you of your victory regardless. So too should it be with records set or awards given while using illegal substances (think Merriman out of the NFL).

 

As far as if the pitchers and other players are doing it, if 100% are not doing it, then it's cheating. It's OK (I guess) when either literally EVERYONE is doing it, or they are allowed to by the rules, in which case if they don't that's their own choice.

:thumb: Great post!

[nomorenoles]

Wouldn't Steroid use be a mens rea crime. Therefore intent would be a necessary element. If you can not prove intent you must acquit. If the glove doesn't fit you must acquit.

[nomorenoles]

Steroid use would be a mens rea crime. Therefor if you can not prove intent you must acquit. If the glove does not fit you must acquit.

[HammerTime]

Chalk another one up.

[HOMELESS CAMEL]

Chalk another one up.

 

When I saw someone had posted here, I figured he hit another one. You would think if he stays healthy, he might try for 800.