4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I mean this as a legitimate question. 

You believe in UFOS but you don't believe in studies that virtually every medical expert agrees show high value in wearing masks? 

My point is there is vastly more documentation supporting mask wearing than UFOS, and you believe in the one with much less scientific support.

You should educate yourself on UFOs.

Just now, theguru said:

You should educate yourself on UFOs.

You got me on that one. ?

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

You got me on that one. ?

I love you too VoR! ?

3 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

I mean this as a legitimate question. 

You believe in UFOS but you don't believe in studies that virtually every medical expert agrees show high value in wearing masks? 

My point is there is vastly more documentation supporting mask wearing than UFOS, and you believe in the one with much less scientific support.

"Science" has been corrupted badly, especially recently. 

Find a pro-mask study before 2020.  (Hint - almost none to find.). 

Here is an interesting study about surgical masks - the ones everyone is wearing now...and reusing and reusing and reusing.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214031X18300809

Conclusions

The source of bacterial contamination in SMs was the body surface of the surgeons rather than the OR environment. Moreover, we recommend that surgeons should change the mask after each operation, especially those beyond 2 hours.

So right there it is - if you wear your mask more than two hours - its likely very contaminated with bacteria.  And the source is....you. 

If you do read the science before 2020 there is almost universal conclusion that mis-use of masks not only reduces effectiveness but also can be a source of spreading.  Or become a source of bacterial pneumonia or other issues. 

 

18 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

If people want Thanksgiving with family, mask on and get very strict again on social distancing. I worry about all those grandparents and elderly who are about to have COVID walk through their door. 

Our family decided not to get together for Thanksgiving this year.  Really sucks.  My favorite holiday just because of the quality time at my grandparents.

1 hour ago, MJAlltheWay24 said:

Our family decided not to get together for Thanksgiving this year.  Really sucks.  My favorite holiday just because of the quality time at my grandparents.

Similar situation for us.  Not getting together with wife's siblings.  We are gathering with our sons and their wives only.  

19 hours ago, Irish Cat said:

On the other hand you also have grandparents such as my 94  year old grandmother who are severely lonely and desperate for someone to come visit them.  I went and saw her for the first time since this started last month and what she told me is that if she knew she would live for another couple of years but had to stay trapped in her home, she'd rather die of Covid right now.  She is miserable. She can't drive, and her children that live locally won't take her anywhere, not even church.   I felt bad that I was only able to visit with her a few  hours.  

My 90 year old dad lives in an independent/assistant living place.  He moved there because he was so lonely and they had many things for seniors to do.  It is not a nursing home, but they are following strict rules too.  They can only leave for doctor’s appointments, no social groups, have to wear masks and socially distance.  Family is allowed outside at a distance. His birthday is this week and we can’t have him over for what likely be his last birthday.  His sense of isolation is big.  He is very unhappy.

He also doesn’t want to live like this.  On the other hand, I don’t think they have had one single senior contract the CV.  As much as I hate his situation, the staff at his place have done a great job, and have undoubtedly saved lives there, including my dad’s.

It’s a terrible no win situation.

2 hours ago, MJAlltheWay24 said:

Our family decided not to get together for Thanksgiving this year.  Really sucks.  My favorite holiday just because of the quality time at my grandparents.

We had secured a rented location to have Thanksgiving this year, but our booking was cancelled by the location. We still plan on doing something, but it will be small.

25 minutes ago, Beechwoodfan said:

It’s a terrible no win situation.

This. 

16 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

"Science" has been corrupted badly, especially recently. 

Find a pro-mask study before 2020.  (Hint - almost none to find.). 

Here is an interesting study about surgical masks - the ones everyone is wearing now...and reusing and reusing and reusing.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214031X18300809

Conclusions

The source of bacterial contamination in SMs was the body surface of the surgeons rather than the OR environment. Moreover, we recommend that surgeons should change the mask after each operation, especially those beyond 2 hours.

So right there it is - if you wear your mask more than two hours - its likely very contaminated with bacteria.  And the source is....you. 

If you do read the science before 2020 there is almost universal conclusion that mis-use of masks not only reduces effectiveness but also can be a source of spreading.  Or become a source of bacterial pneumonia or other issues. 

 

There is nothing wrong with science. The problem is disinformation and discrediting of science by those who want science perverted to say what they want it to say.

I don’t like the mask, but I wear them inside, to me if a business ask you to, when entering, you should respect their rules, to me it would be like someone coming to my house and smoke when I ask them not to smoke in my house, just an example, I don’t smoke but don’t bother me if people do. I have worked the volleyball regional at Holmes this week and can tell you I have saw no one without a mask, we are constantly announcing please keep mask on. When I’m outside, I don’t wear one, but believe in social distance. I truly believe some people want to be challenged by not wearing them. I just found out yesterday my uncle was taken to Ft Thomas hospital with covid, the odd thing, he has not been out of his house for two weeks. 

6 minutes ago, allsport71 said:

 I truly believe some people want to be challenged by not wearing them. 

Absolutely. Knowing good and well when/if they are challenged, they will either put on a mask or leave, neither of which proves anything other than them wanting confrontation. 

5 minutes ago, allsport71 said:

I don’t like the mask, but I wear them inside, to me if a business ask you to, when entering, you should respect their rules, to me it would be like someone coming to my house and smoke when I ask them not to smoke in my house, just an example, I don’t smoke but don’t bother me if people do. I have worked the volleyball regional at Holmes this week and can tell you I have saw no one without a mask, we are constantly announcing please keep mask on. When I’m outside, I don’t wear one, but believe in social distance. I truly believe some people want to be challenged by not wearing them. I just found out yesterday my uncle was taken to Ft Thomas hospital with covid, the odd thing, he has not been out of his house for two weeks. 

Prayers to your uncle.

Does he live alone? Who visited him over the past two weeks and how are those visitors managing themselves (masks, distancing)? Same question for visitors and family of those who visited your uncle. Hopefully all those people in the contact tracing chain stay healthy.

2 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Prayers to your uncle.

Does he live alone? Who visited him over the past two weeks and how are those visitors managing themselves (masks, distancing)? Same question for visitors and family of those who visited your uncle. Hopefully all those people in the contact tracing chain stay healthy.

First, thank you for prayers, he and his wife live alone, but still get around, we go to church with them, but he stayed home the last few weeks, thought he had a cold, the only person been around is his neighbor who does some work for him. His son and daughter in law has been by, he works out of his house and wife don’t work, the only bad thing is she is a recent cancer survivor and has been more cautious than anyone I know. Thanks again, prayers this thing slows down and goes away for all of us.

8 minutes ago, allsport71 said:

First, thank you for prayers, he and his wife live alone, but still get around, we go to church with them, but he stayed home the last few weeks, thought he had a cold, the only person been around is his neighbor who does some work for him. His son and daughter in law has been by, he works out of his house and wife don’t work, the only bad thing is she is a recent cancer survivor and has been more cautious than anyone I know. Thanks again, prayers this thing slows down and goes away for all of us.

Thanks for sharing. That all shows just how difficult it is to manage and how easy it is to get infected.