On 10/28/2020 at 12:36 PM, Voice of Reason said:

25 COVID deaths last week in Hamilton  County. ICU patients have doubled. This is happening across the nation. Masks have been proven to reduce risk 6 fold. Don't let down your guard. When around others you have not been with recently, mask on and social distance. It is all we can do now to protect ourselves, friends, family and others.

My sources indicate that ICU patients have NOT doubled. In fact they've reduced in number and those being admitted are not as sick as previous cases. I have no idea where you are getting your info, but masks have NOT been proven to reduce risk 6 fold. There has been no definitive study done on mask wearing. No double blind tests. Nothing of a scientific nature. If you know of such a study please post a link. I can't find one. Not to a news story, to a study. 

My FLA numbers show the case to test ratio to be the less than it was in mid-August (now 13.3%). The death to test ratio has increased ... by 0.5% (now 2.1%). 

Here is the rub. Over a month ago, the state went to phase 3 allowing all bars to open and restaurants to go to the maximum occupancy allowed given distancing restrictions. The numbers were actually higher when that was announce.

Florida has never had a state mask law. Though the state tried to preempt local ordinances with the move to phase 3, those ordinances have held up in court, but many municipalities and counties have reduce mask restrictions and fines.

School has been back in session since mid-August. Most with full or partial attendance. Football is trucking along, even the pee-wee and midget leagues. I'm going to my grandson's game tomorrow night, as I've done all season. No mask required. Nobody wears them. They take your temp as you enter the facility. That's it. 

Businesses still have the right to enforce mask policies and distancing policies on their premises. Many still do. However, those that still enforce mask wearing have drastically curtailed the distancing requirements. Publix, for example, requires masks, but has no distancing markings anywhere in their stores and haven't had since before the last re-opening adjustment. 

The little breakfast spot I go to, which almost did not make it, is booming back to business. They've especially done so in the last month after increasing capacity. 

Speaking of Publix, I had forgotten my mask one time.  I turned in the entry to leave and a person parking carts told me to stop. She returned with a box of masks and offered me one. Love that place. ?

By the way, I still wear a mask at work, even though restrictions have lessened. However, I do not go though the hazmat cleansing I did early on in this thing. 

1 hour ago, swamprat said:

My sources indicate that ICU patients have NOT doubled. In fact they've reduced in number and those being admitted are not as sick as previous cases. I have no idea where you are getting your info, but masks have NOT been proven to reduce risk 6 fold. There has been no definitive study done on mask wearing. No double blind tests. Nothing of a scientific nature. If you know of such a study please post a link. I can't find one. Not to a news story, to a study. 

My FLA numbers show the case to test ratio to be the less than it was in mid-August (now 13.3%). The death to test ratio has increased ... by 0.5% (now 2.1%). 

Here is the rub. Over a month ago, the state went to phase 3 allowing all bars to open and restaurants to go to the maximum occupancy allowed given distancing restrictions. The numbers were actually higher when that was announce.

Florida has never had a state mask law. Though the state tried to preempt local ordinances with the move to phase 3, those ordinances have held up in court, but many municipalities and counties have reduce mask restrictions and fines.

School has been back in session since mid-August. Most with full or partial attendance. Football is trucking along, even the pee-wee and midget leagues. I'm going to my grandson's game tomorrow night, as I've done all season. No mask required. Nobody wears them. They take your temp as you enter the facility. That's it. 

Businesses still have the right to enforce mask policies and distancing policies on their premises. Many still do. However, those that still enforce mask wearing have drastically curtailed the distancing requirements. Publix, for example, requires masks, but has no distancing markings anywhere in their stores and haven't had since before the last re-opening adjustment. 

The little breakfast spot I go to, which almost did not make it, is booming back to business. They've especially done so in the last month after increasing capacity. 

Speaking of Publix, I had forgotten my mask one time.  I turned in the entry to leave and a person parking carts told me to stop. She returned with a box of masks and offered me one. Love that place. ?

My information was for Hamilton County and the source is Greg Testerman, Hamilton County Health Commissioner.

2 hours ago, swamprat said:

My sources indicate that ICU patients have NOT doubled. In fact they've reduced in number and those being admitted are not as sick as previous cases. I have no idea where you are getting your info, but masks have NOT been proven to reduce risk 6 fold. There has been no definitive study done on mask wearing. No double blind tests. Nothing of a scientific nature. If you know of such a study please post a link. I can't find one. Not to a news story, to a study. 

My FLA numbers show the case to test ratio to be the less than it was in mid-August (now 13.3%). The death to test ratio has increased ... by 0.5% (now 2.1%). 

Here is the rub. Over a month ago, the state went to phase 3 allowing all bars to open and restaurants to go to the maximum occupancy allowed given distancing restrictions. The numbers were actually higher when that was announce.

Florida has never had a state mask law. Though the state tried to preempt local ordinances with the move to phase 3, those ordinances have held up in court, but many municipalities and counties have reduce mask restrictions and fines.

School has been back in session since mid-August. Most with full or partial attendance. Football is trucking along, even the pee-wee and midget leagues. I'm going to my grandson's game tomorrow night, as I've done all season. No mask required. Nobody wears them. They take your temp as you enter the facility. That's it. 

Businesses still have the right to enforce mask policies and distancing policies on their premises. Many still do. However, those that still enforce mask wearing have drastically curtailed the distancing requirements. Publix, for example, requires masks, but has no distancing markings anywhere in their stores and haven't had since before the last re-opening adjustment. 

Florida is #3 in cases and #4 in deaths.

I’m pretty sure Florida is not where we’re going to look for guidance on COVID... 

44 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Florida is #3 in cases and #4 in deaths.

The states with the most cases are California, Texas, Florida and New York.  Those same four states also have the most deaths.  Probably just a coincidence that they are also the four most populated states in the country.  

It shouldn't be any surprise that Florida is #3 in cases and #4 in deaths.  Stats are useless without any context.  

Florida is also 8th in cases per million and 11th in deaths per million while at the same time having the 5th oldest population, not to mention that they are one of the most opened up states in the country.  Maybe they're not doing as badly as you think. 

 

   

 

9 minutes ago, Irish Cat said:

The states with the most cases are California, Texas, Florida and New York.  Those same four states also have the most deaths.  Probably just a coincidence that they are also the four most populated states in the country.  

It shouldn't be any surprise that Florida is #3 in cases and #4 in deaths.  Stats are useless without any context.  

   

 

Correct. No surprise their numbers are that high.

This article does a good job covering the mask debate. There are scientific studies happening but results have not been published yet. The anecdotal evidence says wearing masks is effective. As the article states at one point, we don't have a scientific study with randomized control groups on the effectiveness of parachutes either. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

There was a recent study done in Kansas where masks mandates were left to individual counties. The counties that had mask mandates saw the progress of Covid degreases by 50%.  https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article246781727.html

11 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

This article does a good job covering the mask debate. There are scientific studies happening but results have not been published yet. The anecdotal evidence says wearing masks is effective. As the article states at one point, we don't have a scientific study with randomized control groups on the effectiveness of parachutes either. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

And when I doubt, I am wearing a parachute!

Posted elsewhere but fits here. 

"Up until March of 2020, face masks and respirators were considered limited use items. Surgical masks were designed to prevent cross contamination of patients and medical personnel when medical procedures involving blood or other bodily fluids were present or potentially present. They were not used on a continuous basis.

Before March of 2020, OSHA, CDC, and the FDA recommended that masks not be worn by the average person and specifically said that they were not capable of preventing the spread or exposure of viruses and bacteria.

Even today, masks being advertised on television and elsewhere specifically exclude virus protection by omission.

In the workplace, before March of 2020, if there was a potential of an employee having to wear a mask or respirator, the employer had to provide training, the employee had to be fit-tested to ensure a proper seal, and the employee had to pass a pulmonary function test prior to equipment assignment. That same employee, if their job required potential use of a face mask or respirator, was not allowed to have a beard.

Suddenly everything that was known prior to March 2020 and for the past 50 years is wrong and gone."

I think masks are cute - but potentially dangerous and non-effective.  They make people feel they are doing good.  And give them reason to harass those that know the mask is just a game.   The mis-use and re-use of masks is making them far more dangerous than helpful.  Just look around.  Is anyone, ANYONE following all the rules of proper mask usage (no-touch, no re-use, no putting in your pocket, etc.)?   Of course not. 

The subject was well researched before March of 2020.  What changed then? 

 

2 minutes ago, Bluegrasscard said:

The mis-use and re-use of masks is making them far more dangerous than helpful.

To quote the anti-mask crowd, "Prove it."

Another pull about masks.  For those that through the surgeon use around: 

"The masks are definitely bad for you. I have friends that work somewhere where they have to wear masks from their car in the parking lot, all day long. They have started having severe sinus headaches, neck pain and migraines.

Wearing a mask all day:
- Lowers the O2 concentration in your body
- Increased CO2 concentration in your body
- Re-introduces biomaterials your body wants expelled (e.g. sneezing) for a reason, leading to a higher chance of bacterial pneumonia
- Generates anxiety due to "perceived choking". It's the same reason waterboarding is an effective form of torture.
- Prevents ejection of mouth bacteria, leading to halitosis and higher number of mouth infections


It is certainly very bad for you.

Oh, and before someone comes in about surgeons wearing masks:
- Surgeons are trained in how to breath in a mask, how to put it on, etc.
- Surgeons work in a highly oxygenated operating theater
- Surgeons replace their face mask for every patient, i.e. they don't reuse the same nasty mask
- While the work of surgeons is mentally taxing, it is NOT physically taxing. That is to say, they don't need to breathe hard, unlike someone working a physical job/walking around.
-Surgeons DO NOT wear masks all day! They only wear them during the operations. Lol they don't walk around in the hallways between surgeries wearing masks."

 

Edited October 30, 20205 yr by Bluegrasscard
Altered for bad term

2 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

To quote the anti-mask crowd, "Prove it."

Go read the science - its been published for years....

Just now, Bluegrasscard said:

Go read the science - its been published for years....

People have also been wearing masks for extended periods of time for years and it hasn't been an issue... So...