Basketball in KY needs to be classified...

[ladiesbballcoach]

The only real reason why KY does not have a class system in basketball, IMHO, is $$$$$$$$$$. Those that have the power or influence the power wants it to stay as is.

 

They begin to lose $$$ through sponsorship, it would change. Don't see that happening though.

[leatherneck]

Indiana has five classes for football and four for basketball. You have to have a class system for football. It is not about winning a state championship in football, it is about a players safety.

I played basketball in Indiana when we didn't have a class system. We went into tournament time knowing that we had to play the most winning basketball program in the state. There gym seats over 7500, and they have won more state titles than anyone. During this time, they won three in a row. So, are chances were slim to none. I have more fond memories playing in that atmosphere, and losing by a few points or taking them to overtime, than winning a class regional title.

 

I would have loved to play in an All A State Tournament and then had a chance to play the states best teams. The All A is a great tournament, but it needs to be changed a little. Maybe do what Indiana is doing with their private schools. They are making them add 1.5 for evey student. This might eliminate some of them for the All A Tournament.

 

I'll have to accept your word for it as I've not had any relationship with high school football in Indiana. That's kind of interesting. So since it must be unsafe for the larger schools to play the smaller schools, does the IHSAA have a rule preventing the large schools in Indiana from playing the smaller schools to protect the kids at the smaller schools from getting hurt? We sure don't have one in Ky and I've never once heard, in all my years of being involved in Ky sports at many different levels, safety being a justification for classes. Heck the Football Advisory Committee, which recently voted to recommend we go to 6 classes, did not even bring up safety as a justification for doing so.

[DiggerBill]

Then you would agree we should do the same thing for football to create the same type of atmosphere and sense of accomplishment. Get rid of the classes or at a minimum, not dilute them anymore than they already are, correct?

 

Most schools will select 12-15 athletes for Basketball, these schools many times can compete with most other schools regardless of the enrollment if the talent is there. However, in football it normally is a numbers game, realistically it takes 40-60 players to field a team. Most A schools don't have the numbers, therefore their athletes will play both ways and then some. This puts the various class schools on an equal playing field as far as number of athletes are concerned and as you progress upwards in Class status you then have more athletes to compete. I really don't think you can compare B-Ball and Football together. Other sports maybe, such as baseball, tennis, golf, wrestling and so forth simply because these sports again require a smaller number of athletes to compete can be classified with no advantage to the size of the school. It's simply based upon talent of athletes.

[leatherneck]

Most schools will select 12-15 athletes for Basketball, these schools many times can compete with most other schools regardless of the enrollment if the talent is there. However, in football it normally is a numbers game, realistically it takes 40-60 players to field a team. Most A schools don't have the numbers, therefore their athletes will play both ways and then some. This puts the various class schools on an equal playing field as far as number of athletes are concerned and as you progress upwards in Class status you then have more athletes to compete. I really don't think you can compare B-Ball and Football together. Other sports maybe, such as baseball, tennis, golf, wrestling and so forth simply because these sports again require a smaller number of athletes to compete can be classified with no advantage to the size of the school. It's simply based upon talent of athletes.

 

 

I agree with you to a point, but Digger, you know as well as I do, that if I have 2000 boys to select from vs 100 boys, its an aberration when the top 5 from the school with 100 boys are better than the top 5 from the school with 2000 boys unless there has been some manipulation of the talent pools. Its like burying a nickel in your back yard. You get 100 scoops with a shovel to find that nickel and I get 2000. Or you get to keep the 5 finest diamonds you can find out of a choice of 100 but I get to keep the 5 finest diamonds that I can find out of a choice of 2000 and its a competition between you and I to see who finds the 5 finest diamonds. You don't think I have a huge advantage in finding that nickel or finding the 5 finest diamonds? Sure sometimes you'll be lucky and beat me, but you have to admit that the numbers work in favor of the larger schools whether we're talking putting together teams of 30, teams of 10 or teams of 1. So even in basketball, the schools with many more kids to choose from will have an advantage over the smaller schools. Is the advantage as great as it is in football? Maybe not, but probably is enough to justify at least two classes. One other thing, is there perhaps any insight placed on issue by the fact that we are the only state that still does not have classes for basketball?

[ukbellco14]

Most schools will select 12-15 athletes for Basketball, these schools many times can compete with most other schools regardless of the enrollment if the talent is there. However, in football it normally is a numbers game, realistically it takes 40-60 players to field a team. Most A schools don't have the numbers, therefore their athletes will play both ways and then some. This puts the various class schools on an equal playing field as far as number of athletes are concerned and as you progress upwards in Class status you then have more athletes to compete. I really don't think you can compare B-Ball and Football together. Other sports maybe, such as baseball, tennis, golf, wrestling and so forth simply because these sports again require a smaller number of athletes to compete can be classified with no advantage to the size of the school. It's simply based upon talent of athletes.

 

Very good point.

 

Numbers matter when you have to have 45-60 players. In football you have 22 positions on offense and defense, plus special teams. You also need backups for each of those positions at least 2 deep, and you would also like to have different players on special teams as well. Plus many of these athletes at small schools have to play 3 ways, as you pointed out,

 

Numbers dont matter when you have to have 10-15 players. In basketball you have 5 positions. All 5 players are expected to play both ways. You need a few subs, and a few extra players. In all reality most teams only play between 7-10 guys.

 

Football is largely about numbers, whereas basketball is more about talent.

[leatherneck]

The only real reason why KY does not have a class system in basketball, IMHO, is $$$$$$$$$$. Those that have the power or influence the power wants it to stay as is.

 

They begin to lose $$$ through sponsorship, it would change. Don't see that happening though.

 

 

And this my friends and colleagues, in my opinion, is the winning answer. Its tradition, heck its a great and glorious tradition, but that doesn't stop it from being hypocritical.

[ladiesbballcoach]

And this my friends and colleagues, in my opinion, is the winning answer. Its tradition, heck its a great and glorious tradition, but that doesn't stop it from being hypocritical.

What do I get???????

[ladiesbballcoach]

Very good point.

 

Numbers matter when you have to have 45-60 players. In football you have 22 positions on offense and defense, plus special teams. You also need backups for each of those positions at least 2 deep, and you would also like to have different players on special teams as well. Plus many of these athletes at small schools have to play 3 ways, as you pointed out,

 

Numbers dont matter when you have to have 10-15 players. In basketball you have 5 positions. All 5 players are expected to play both ways. You need a few subs, and a few extra players. In all reality most teams only play between 7-10 guys.

 

Football is largely about numbers, whereas basketball is more about talent.

Easier to find and develop talent in a school with 100 boys or a school with 1000 boys? Which school has the better chance to have 2-4 players over 6'3"?

[DiggerBill]

I agree with you to a point, but Digger, you know as well as I do, that if I have 2000 boys to select from vs 100 boys, its an aberration when the top 5 from the school with 100 boys are better than the top 5 from the school with 2000 boys unless there has been some manipulation of the talent pools. Its like burying a nickel in your back yard. You get 100 scoops with a shovel to find that nickel and I get 2000. Or you get to keep the 5 finest diamonds you can find out of a choice of 100 but I get to keep the 5 finest diamonds that I can find out of a choice of 2000 and its a competition between you and I to see who finds the 5 finest diamonds. You don't think I have a huge advantage in finding that nickel or finding the 5 finest diamonds? Sure sometimes you'll be lucky and beat me, but you have to admit that the numbers work in favor of the larger schools whether we're talking putting together teams of 30, teams of 10 or teams of 1.

 

Point made and Point taken. Also, you must consider that the largest school in the tourney may have what? 1500 students with probably 40% being boys. Then you figure that maybe 10 % may have an interest in B-Ball which would be 60 at the most. Most coaches would love to have that many to choose from, but, this is not a realistic figure either. And I'm referring to all three levels ie.. Frosh, JV and Varsity. With this in mind your numbers are now becoming someone close to the A and AA levels. Again, it's all based upon talent level. Some of N.Ky Schools on the A and AA level have a tremendous number of athletes vying for the 12-15 spots and additionally they normally have the talent pool to choose from. So I guess there are many Pros and Cons to this situation.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Point made and Point taken. Also, you must consider that the largest school in the tourney may have what? 1500 students with probably 40% being boys. Then you figure that maybe 10 % may have an interest in B-Ball which would be 60 at the most. Most coaches would love to have that many to choose from, but, this is not a realistic figure either. And I'm referring to all three levels ie.. Frosh, JV and Varsity. With this in mind your numbers are now becoming someone close to the A and AA levels. Again, it's all based upon talent level. Some of N.Ky Schools on the A and AA level have a tremendous number of athletes vying for the 12-15 spots and additionally they normally have the talent pool to choose from. So I guess there are many Pros and Cons to this situation.

 

Unless and you have to use the same mindset with the A and AA levels. 200 kids, 40% boys gets to 80 boys. 10% have interest in basketball, so that leaves you with 8 boys. And having interest does not mean they have size or talent.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I agree with you to a point, but Digger, you know as well as I do, that if I have 2000 boys to select from vs 100 boys, its an aberration when the top 5 from the school with 100 boys are better than the top 5 from the school with 2000 boys unless there has been some manipulation of the talent pools. Its like burying a nickel in your back yard. You get 100 scoops with a shovel to find that nickel and I get 2000. Or you get to keep the 5 finest diamonds you can find out of a choice of 100 but I get to keep the 5 finest diamonds that I can find out of a choice of 2000 and its a competition between you and I to see who finds the 5 finest diamonds. You don't think I have a huge advantage in finding that nickel or finding the 5 finest diamonds? Sure sometimes you'll be lucky and beat me, but you have to admit that the numbers work in favor of the larger schools whether we're talking putting together teams of 30, teams of 10 or teams of 1. So even in basketball, the schools with many more kids to choose from will have an advantage over the smaller schools. Is the advantage as great as it is in football? Maybe not, but probably is enough to justify at least two classes. One other thing, is there perhaps any insight placed on issue by the fact that we are the only state that still does not have classes for basketball?

 

The bolded should not be a part of your post that should be overlooked. It is a major statement in your argument.

[DiggerBill]

Unless and you have to use the same mindset with the A and AA levels. 200 kids, 40% boys gets to 80 boys. 10% have interest in basketball, so that leaves you with 8 boys. And having interest does not mean they have size or talent.

 

What's fair is fair, I guess you're right and many times the quality numbers are not there for the smaller schools.

Point Taken.

[5wide]

Why don't we just give each kid and team that participates in any high school sport a championship trophy? :sleep:

[ladiesbballcoach]

Why don't we just give each kid and team that participates in any high school sport a championship trophy? :sleep:

So you are for consolidation of football, cross country and track?

 

Since sports is really supposed to be about work ethic, teamwork and character building, let's just not have any playoffs. That is what sports is supposed to be about right? At least, that has been the argument in other threads. HS sports is not supposed to be about winning championships.

[Big Game Player]

Change it and it goes from being the "Greatest Show in High School Sports" to "just another high school State Tournament."