Basketball in KY needs to be classified...

[TonyDanza]

Since everyone wants a fair playing fieled lets do this in all sports so all the little Johnnies and Janies get a "fair" chance to win a title, because America is not fair if they don't

 

 

A -

AA - 100 boys/girls

AAA - 200 boys/girls

AAAA - 300 boys/girls

AAAAA - 400 boys/girls

AAAAAA - 500 boys/girls

AAAAAAA - 600 boys/girls

AAAAAAAA - 700 boys/girls

AAAAAAAAA - 800 boys/girls

AAAAAAAAAA - 900 boys/girls

AAAAAAAAAAA - 1,000 boys/girls

AAAAAAAAAAAA - 1,100 boys/girls

AAAAAAAAAAAAA - 1,200 boys/girls

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA - 1,300 boys/girls

 

Then put in the rule everyone gets to play at least 1 min, nobody gets cut from the team, uniforms all have to be the same black and white design, Chuck Taylors are the only shoes, only Powerade for TO's and after you win one title, you cannot win another for 3 years, in that league, you got to the Champions League, where everyone will again win a title.

 

 

 

Add the seperation of public/private( in the private we will have independent, Catholic, Baptist, non-denominational, etc. etc) you get 112 state champs in every sport every year, if your school is cheated out of winning a championship this way, we play a tourney at the end of the year with all the non-winners(losers is degrading and not fair to Johnny and Janie) until everyone wins a game.

 

This way llittle Johnnie and Janie know how the real world works and when they don't get a job they want, the company will just make a super position for them to get paid $85,000 a year.

 

Forget hard work, pactice, and the purpose of being on a team, thats all a waste of time and Un-American now.

 

Kentucky's new slogans could be

 

Unbeatable Kids!

 

Superman and Superwoman raised here!

 

Welcome to Kentucky, Where Everyone is a Champion.

 

Home of Unrealisitc Expectations!!!!

 

Everyone happy now?

 

 

 

Now this is funny! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[ladiesbballcoach]

 

If the KHSAA has it wrong, then does the NCAA. I mean a small school hasnt won the NCAA tourney in forever, yet I dont hear any of them saying the NCAA tourney is unfair and NCAA basketball should be classified.

And here I thought that the NCAA has Division II and Division III basketball...........Wait a minute they do. It is the school's choice what level they play at.

[BGGreen]

Although I dont neccessarily agree that winning a region title in basketball is the equivalent to winning a state title in football....... I do think that in this state, winning your region and making it to the Sweet 16 in basketball is viewed as the equivalent of winning a state championship in football.

 

With that being said..... the HS basketball playoffs and the Sweet 16 are fair. Every team gets a chance, what they do with that chance is up to them. Doesnt get much more fair then that. Sure...... the small schools have to face the goliaths..... but that is why its so special.

 

Also...... something to think about!!!!

 

The reason the KHSAA doesnt classify basketball like they do football, IMO is the same reason the NCAA doesnt classify basketball like they do football. The size of enrollment isnt a crucial part of fielding a complete, competitive roster.

 

If the KHSAA has it wrong, then does the NCAA. I mean a small school hasnt won the NCAA tourney in forever, yet I dont hear any of them saying the NCAA tourney is unfair and NCAA basketball should be classified.

 

Let's face it--The reason the KHSAA doesn't change the Sweet Sixteen has nothing to do with fairness, equality, etc., it's MONEY!! The tourney is wildly successful and a huge revenue generator. Throw in tradition and you've got your answer.

 

The NCAA analogy, while interesting, seems a little irrevelant as even the small schools have several thousand students and with the ability to recruit, etc. somewhat levels the playing field.

 

BTW--The New Jersey example I gave earlier as an option has proved to be a huge income generator as well; with the Class tourneys and then the "Tourney of Champs" very well attended, and being spread out over a couple of weeks has incresed revenue!!

[BGGreen]

You know why do people assume that CovCath is this huge school, when their total admission is 478 and yes it is all male but...... All the teams except Boyle, Russell, and Hazard had larger male enrollment than CovCath, if you took a 50% male 50% female with Mason being very close with CovCath.

 

From the Sweet Sixteen Program

 

Region - Team - Total Enrollment -Males

1st Graves 1,350 = 675

2nd Christian Co 1,400 = 700

3rd Apollo 1,385 = 692

4th Warren Central 1,100 = 550

5th John Hardin 1,200 = 600

6th PRP 1,900 = 950

7th J-town 1,000 = 500

8th Shelby Co. 1,535 = 767

9th CovCath 478 = 478

10th Mason Co. 781 = 391

11th Madison Central 1,628 = 814

12th Boyle Co 678 = 339

13th South Laurel 1,360 = 680

14th Hazard 286 = 143

15th Johnson Central 1,000 = 500

16th Russell 652 = 326

 

Sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I'm very familiar with CovCath and their programs, and realize how big they are. The analogy was simply meant to point out that there is more talent to chose from at a CCH for example, than most other NKY schools; and being familiar with their intramurals, know that there's some nice ballplayers playing there!! I will say that IMO another factor in their continued success, would be that the average student at CCH is more "sport's minded" and has come from a background of multiple sport's participation; more so than what you find at most other schools. No knock on CCH, as it's probably true at some other NKY schools, just a simple fact!!

[ukbellco14]

And here I thought that the NCAA has Division II and Division III basketball...........Wait a minute they do. It is the school's choice what level they play at.

 

No it isnt...... it is a matter of scholarship limitations, funds, and recruiting.

 

It has nothing to to do with enrollment. Besides that, I was talking about Division 1 basketball, and division 2 or 3 has nothing to do with my analogy.

 

KWC, has it was pointed out by another poster, has around 800 students, yet they compete and win against schools that have 20,000.

 

My point was that if the KHSAA has it wrong and the B-Ball district and region playoffs, as well as the Sweet 16, is unfair to smaller schools, then the NCAA also has it wrong because the NCAA tourney is unfair to smaller schools.

 

I dont hear W-KY or Murray St or any of the small Division 1 schools complainng that the NCAA tourney is unfair and that there should be two seperate NCAA division 1 tourneys!

[ukbellco14]

Let's face it--The reason the KHSAA doesn't change the Sweet Sixteen has nothing to do with fairness, equality, etc., it's MONEY!! The tourney is wildly successful and a huge revenue generator. Throw in tradition and you've got your answer.

 

The NCAA analogy, while interesting, seems a little irrevelant as even the small schools have several thousand students and with the ability to recruit, etc. somewhat levels the playing field.

 

BTW--The New Jersey example I gave earlier as an option has proved to be a huge income generator as well; with the Class tourneys and then the "Tourney of Champs" very well attended, and being spread out over a couple of weeks has incresed revenue!!

 

I dont see how the New Jersey example fixes the problem of unfairness.

 

The problem is fairness.... correct? This is because the small schools cant compete with the big schools, apparently because their enrollment is to small and therefore their talent pool is too small.

 

How does having each class champ battle it out for a composite state champ seem fair to those small school champs? They will never compete with the big school champs, and this will once again be attributed to the small school champs having less students enrolled and therefore a lesser talent pool.

 

How does that fix anything?

 

If you are going to have class state champs in basketball in order to make it fair for everyone then it would make no sense to have a composite state champ. Think about it. That composite state championship would be "unfair" to the smaller schools using the logic that was used to split basketball into classes in the first place.

 

The class state championship will not be as prestigious as the composite state championship, and therefore the small school class state champs will feel slighted just like they do now.

[Butterfly Baby]

I have members of my family that coach, ref, teach, play, and are part of the administration in school districts. I am fully aware of the politics and deomographics of high school sports. They don't think it should be classified and don't care about the public/private debate. I think a whole lot of the problem has to do with transfers. A team in the tenth benefited from transfers, a team in the 16th had a transfer, and numerous post have been talking about transfers. Everyone wants to play on a successful team. But if everyone is determined that b-ball should be classified then divide it into four regions (North, South, East, and West) and everyone can play with teams that they have more in common with.

 

I agree. Transfers are a big big problem

[DiggerBill]

I cant believe that in 3 pages of posts that noone has pointed out that consolidation is the main reason this is even a topic.

 

Someone mentioned Cuba and Carr Creek, do these schools exist today? How about Lexington, Union Academy, London, Corinth, Kavanaugh, Tolu, Horse Cave, just to name a few?

 

It's incredible to me that anyone can believe you can find 5 equally talented players in a group of 200 as easily as you can 2000. If you put 2000 Apples vs 200 Apples my chances of finding 5 better in that 2000 is much greater.

 

If numbers don't matter as some of you say. Why do we have Classes for Track? It's one on one for many of the events. And why does the winner of last years Class A 100 Meter Dash run no better than tied for 4th if he runs in Class AAA? Here we aren't looking for 5 on 5, 11 on 11, or 22 on 22. It's one on one baby, if it doesnt matter why doesn't Class A run as fast as Class AAA??? Must be poor coaching or bad work habits from these A school kids.

 

Size of school absolutely does not matter if a Single A participant is better than a 4A athlete. This is really far fetched, on an individual basis size does not matter. However, the real reason that there are Classifications in other sports is simple. It gives more athletes the ability to compete for individual titles. Do the math, you have 40 athletes total in the same event but with 4 classes A,AA,AAA and AAAA now you have 4 Champions, 4 Runners-up and 4 third place finishers. On the Flip side you would have one of each. It simply gives more kids the opportunity to place or win a particular event. It's totally a numbers game to get more kids involved.

[King Rex]

Size of school absolutely does not matter if a Single A participant is better than a 4A athlete. This is really far fetched, on an individual basis size does not matter. However, the real reason that there are Classifications in other sports is simple. It gives more athletes the ability to compete for individual titles. Do the math, you have 40 athletes total in the same event but with 4 classes A,AA,AAA and AAAA now you have 4 Champions, 4 Runners-up and 4 third place finishers. On the Flip side you would have one of each. It simply gives more kids the opportunity to place or win a particular event. It's totally a numbers game to get more kids involved.

 

Everybody should win a prize. And everyone should get a medal for their participation. No one loses.....No one wins.

[NEXT]

I'm continually amazed at the disparity between people's ideas of "fair". How is it that many people who support a public/private split are opposed to classification of basketball? Seems to me that "fair" is a subjective term, that only applies when it benefits one's personal preferences.

 

 

I agree, I hate the Private/Public split idea, I think it is the chicken poo way out.

 

 

I think part of the problem is small Privates/Independents, the ones that choose to be small and stay that way which not only hurts them in basketball, but also academic opps.

 

There are 2 single A schools in Pike Co., Phelps, and in 10 years or so I would say they will be in with Pike Cent. and Belfry, the other is Pikeville, and they CHOOSE TO BE INDEPENDENT.

What I'm saying is some schools have no choice Phelps, and I can understand their arument for the next few years, but schools that are Independent and CHOOSE SO, HAVE NO COMPLAINT, YOU CHOOSE TO BE THAT SMALL or YOU CHOOSE TO SEND YOUR CHILD THERE and if it is for education winning a sports championship shouldn't even be dicussed.

[stickymitts]

I agree, I hate the Private/Public split idea, I think it is the chicken poo way out.

 

 

I think part of the problem is small Privates/Independents, the ones that choose to be small and stay that way which not only hurts them in basketball, but also academic opps.

 

There are 2 single A schools in Pike Co., Phelps, and in 10 years or so I would say they will be in with Pike Cent. and Belfry, the other is Pikeville, and they CHOOSE TO BE INDEPENDENT.

What I'm saying is some schools have no choice Phelps, and I can understand their arument for the next few years, but schools that are Independent and CHOOSE SO, HAVE NO COMPLAINT, YOU CHOOSE TO BE THAT SMALL or YOU CHOOSE TO SEND YOUR CHILD THERE and if it is for education winning a sports championship shouldn't even be dicussed.

 

Most small schools are a lot better academically than most large schools.

[NEXT]

There are 3 type of people on this board and in this state

 

60% Public/Private supporters who want the best for their kids in academics and athletics and will play anyone, anywhere.

 

20% Then there is the Public supporters who think the school system owns kids, and if you go somewhere other than a Kentucky County school you are betraying God and Country and you cheat to win.

 

20% Then there is the small Privates/Indep. who choose to be small, and complain because everyone elses is too big, everyone else recruits, everyone else picks on use BUT YET THEY CHOOSE TO STAY SMALL.

 

 

I'm in the top 60%, and I think we should all kick the snot out of the other 40%

[NEXT]

Most small schools are a lot better academically than most large schools.

 

 

Well then they better classify the Governor's Cup and Academic Meets because you guys have an unfair advantage, more one-on-one attention with students, or we'll just kick you out because your an Independent/Public and the Governor really doesn't run your school:rolleyes:

[RoundBallMaster]

Why is it we have this same STUPID discussion every year. Why change something that is so sucessful year in and year out. Not everyone can win a championship. Sorry parents..it is not in the cards. Im just sick of seeing people act retarded over little Jimmy not having a chance in the state tournament. It will happen again. Quit getting your panties in a bunch over 4A teams winning in the state tourney. I went to a class A school. And the thought of having a class system in high school basketball never crossed my mind because I wanted to be a champion. You have to earn it. Period. Quit complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This conversation is getting very very OLD. Get over it. It's not going to happen. Quit crying.

[NEXT]

I know what your saying RBM, I remember this boy from Millard in EKY who worked his tail end off to get to Rupp but never made it and I think lead the state in rebounding, ask him today he wouldn't want a class system.:devil: