Basketball in KY needs to be classified...

[UKCATSFAN]

Easy. It's not absurd at all, it's the truth. Football coaches with state rings were the ones who said this.

 

I'd be happy to tell the Russell or Belfry coaching staff that winning a region in many areas of the state is more difficult than winning AA in football. It just is. How many really good teams do you have to beat to win the AA title? One, maybe two, at most.

 

CovCath went, Holy Cross, Holmes, Ryle, Highlands, NewCath win the ninth this year. A bit tougher than what Russell or Belfry had to face.

 

Are you trying to say Russell didn't earn their championship? Of course those teams would probaly be a little tougher, it's a larger class. Common sense will tell you that. I'm sure the 4A road was harder than the 3A road. Come on buddy, bring a legit and thoughful argument to the table. It's the same, for a small school like Russell to win state, they go through an equally hard road. If Russell were a 3A or 4A school then yeah, the road would be considered easy but for them and their numbers, it's as equally hard for them as anybody.

[UKCATSFAN]

Calling me a liar, is probably some sort of rules violation, so lets just assume I was told this.:thumb: That being said it wasn't from Trinity or St. X. Or any other Lousiville school.

 

It wasn't from a small school. Correct?

[Tubby's Best Friend]

I cant believe that in 3 pages of posts that noone has pointed out that consolidation is the main reason this is even a topic.

 

Someone mentioned Cuba and Carr Creek, do these schools exist today? How about Lexington, Union Academy, London, Corinth, Kavanaugh, Tolu, Horse Cave, just to name a few?

 

It's incredible to me that anyone can believe you can find 5 equally talented players in a group of 200 as easily as you can 2000. If you put 2000 Apples vs 200 Apples my chances of finding 5 better in that 2000 is much greater.

 

If numbers don't matter as some of you say. Why do we have Classes for Track? It's one on one for many of the events. And why does the winner of last years Class A 100 Meter Dash run no better than tied for 4th if he runs in Class AAA? Here we aren't looking for 5 on 5, 11 on 11, or 22 on 22. It's one on one baby, if it doesnt matter why doesn't Class A run as fast as Class AAA??? Must be poor coaching or bad work habits from these A school kids.

[ukbellco14]

Although I dont neccessarily agree that winning a region title in basketball is the equivalent to winning a state title in football....... I do think that in this state, winning your region and making it to the Sweet 16 in basketball is viewed as the equivalent of winning a state championship in football.

 

With that being said..... the HS basketball playoffs and the Sweet 16 are fair. Every team gets a chance, what they do with that chance is up to them. Doesnt get much more fair then that. Sure...... the small schools have to face the goliaths..... but that is why its so special.

 

Also...... something to think about!!!!

 

The reason the KHSAA doesnt classify basketball like they do football, IMO is the same reason the NCAA doesnt classify basketball like they do football. The size of enrollment isnt a crucial part of fielding a complete, competitive roster.

 

If the KHSAA has it wrong, then does the NCAA. I mean a small school hasnt won the NCAA tourney in forever, yet I dont hear any of them saying the NCAA tourney is unfair and NCAA basketball should be classified.

[Tubby's Best Friend]

If the KHSAA has it wrong, then does the NCAA. I mean a small school hasnt won the NCAA tourney in forever, yet I dont hear any of them saying the NCAA tourney is unfair.

 

Bryant Gumble said on Real Sports on HBO just last week.

[ukbellco14]

I cant believe that in 3 pages of posts that noone has pointed out that consolidation is the main reason this is even a topic.

 

Someone mentioned Cuba and Carr Creek, do these schools exist today? How about Lexington, Union Academy, London, Corinth, Kavanaugh, Tolu, Horse Cave, just to name a few?

 

It's incredible to me that anyone can believe you can find 5 equally talented players in a group of 200 as easily as you can 2000. If you put 2000 Apples vs 200 Apples my chances of finding 5 better in that 2000 is much greater.

 

If numbers don't matter as some of you say. Why do we have Classes for Track? It's one on one for many of the events. And why does the winner of last years Class A 100 Meter Dash run no better than tied for 4th if he runs in Class AAA? Here we aren't looking for 5 on 5, 11 on 11, or 22 on 22. It's one on one baby, if it doesnt matter why doesn't Class A run as fast as Class AAA??? Must be poor coaching or bad work habits from these A school kids.

 

If you are referring to me about believing you can find 5 equally talented players in a group of 200 as easily as you can in 2000, then you are misunderstanding me. I am not saying you can do that.

 

I am simply saying that it isnt the KHSAA's job to deal with that. They dont deal with it in football, and they shouldnt deal with it in basketball. The reason you have classes in football isn't because its harder to find a number of quality players in 200 moreso then in 2000. The reason you have classes in football is because a team with 30 kids is at an obvious disadvantage to a team with 100+ kids, regardless of the quality of those teams.

 

As far as track goes..... I agree. Declassify it. However, classification is neccessary in these one-on-one sports in order to manage those sports. Although, I do think the best of each class should compete against one another, just like I do in football.

[ukbellco14]

Bryant Gumble said on Real Sports on HBO just last week.

 

I dont think Bryant Gumble coaches, plays, or is affiliated in any way, shape, or form with those small schools is he???

[Tubby's Best Friend]

If you are referring to me about believing you can find 5 equally talented players in a group of 200 as easily as you can in 2000, then you are misunderstanding me. I am not saying you can do that.

 

I am simply saying that it isnt the KHSAA's job to deal with that. They dont deal with it in football, and they shouldnt deal with it in basketball. The reason you have classes in football isn't because its harder to find a number of quality players in 200 moreso then in 2000. The reason you have classes in football is because a team with 30 kids is at an obvious disadvantage to a team with 100+ kids, regardless of the quality of those teams.

 

As far as track goes..... I agree. Declassify it. However, classification is neccessary in these one-on-one sports in order to manage those sports. Although, I do think the best of each class should compete against one another, just like I do in football.

 

 

Lets give your logic benefit of the doubt as to why you classify football and you dont basketball. If Apollo dresses 15 and Raceland dresses 15 in basketball it is fair, correct?

 

To fill out those 15 players, Apollo has 3 seniors, 7 juniors, 5 sophomores. Raceland has 0 seniors, 6 juniors, 1 sophomore, 2 freshmen, 6 8th graders. Is that fair?

[ukbellco14]

Lets give your logic benefit of the doubt as to why you classify football and you dont basketball. If Male dresses 15 and Raceland dresses 15 in basketball it is fair, correct?

 

To fill out those 15 players, Apollo has 3 seniors, 7 juniors, 5 sophomores. Raceland has 0 seniors, 6 juniors, 1 sophomore, 2 freshmen, 6 8th graders. Is that fair?

 

You went from Male to Apollo??? Ok you edited it. Gotcha.

 

Either way.....

 

You bet it is fair IMO..... if it is handled the way it should be, then it looks like Raceland has the makings of a heck of a team next season..... and then 2years after that if the feeder program does its job.

 

Not to mention that several other large 4A schools could have the same problem Raceland has..... but we dont attribute that to numbers.

 

So what..... Raceland is a young team compared to Male. I dont see how that has anything to do with numbers, except that the feeder programs arent doing an adequate job of getting kids interested in basketball and getting them to stay out.

[Tubby's Best Friend]

I dont think Bryant Gumble coaches, plays, or is affiliated in any way, shape, or form with those small schools is he???

 

No, but he did say on national television that the NCAA Tournament wasnt fair to the small schools. So someone is saying it.

[Tubby's Best Friend]

You went from Male to Apollo???

 

Either way.....

 

You bet it is fair IMO..... if it is handled the way it should be, then it looks like Raceland has the makings of a heck of a team next season..... and then 2years after that if the feeder program does its job.

 

Went with Apollo for reality. Was using Male as a hypothetical.

 

So just from these breakdowns of players per class you think this team should make a run at a state title?

[Theoldguy]

You're not really trying to say numbers don't matter in hoops are you?? Sure, it's true that it's easier for a small school to field a competitive team in basketball than football; but to act like picking a team from 1500 boys isn't easier than from 200, is pretty unrealistic!! I'd guess CovCath's intermurals could field a team that would finish at least in the middle of the pack in NKY, and I'm guessing the same is true at some of the Louisville schools as well.

 

Having just returned from a trip to Philadelphia and discussing New Jersey's program; I think it has some merit. They have four classes (I believe) play for their respective state titles and then the four champs compete in a "Tournament of Champions" weekend to decide a composite State Champion. This gives schools a chance to win their class and then test themselves against the other champs, for ultimate bragging rights!! (especially if the smaller school has their "once in a lifetime team")

 

 

You know why do people assume that CovCath is this huge school, when their total admission is 478 and yes it is all male but...... All the teams except Boyle, Russell, and Hazard had larger male enrollment than CovCath, if you took a 50% male 50% female with Mason being very close with CovCath.

 

From the Sweet Sixteen Program

 

Region - Team - Total Enrollment -Males

1st Graves 1,350 = 675

2nd Christian Co 1,400 = 700

3rd Apollo 1,385 = 692

4th Warren Central 1,100 = 550

5th John Hardin 1,200 = 600

6th PRP 1,900 = 950

7th J-town 1,000 = 500

8th Shelby Co. 1,535 = 767

9th CovCath 478 = 478

10th Mason Co. 781 = 391

11th Madison Central 1,628 = 814

12th Boyle Co 678 = 339

13th South Laurel 1,360 = 680

14th Hazard 286 = 143

15th Johnson Central 1,000 = 500

16th Russell 652 = 326

[ukbellco14]

Went with Apollo for reality. Was using Male as a hypothetical.

 

So just from these breakdowns of players per class you think this team should make a run at a state title?

 

Heck no they wont make a run....... but it isnt because the system isnt fair. Its because the team is young.

 

Plenty of schools run into that problem, and it has nothing to do with numbers. I know large 4A schools that have that problem. Look at Whitley Co and North Laurel from the 13th region.

 

I am tired of trying to give every team that cant play worth a hoot a chance to win a championship for the sake of being fair. Life isnt fair. You have to face "bigger & better" everyday in the real world, and you cant go crying to some legislative body to classify the problem for you so that you dont have to face "bigger & better."

 

Its completely stupid. There is a reason the small schools dont compete with the large schools, and it isnt numbers.

 

In football it is numbers. The reason a Belfry cant compete with a Trinity isnt neccessarily because of actual football ability, its because they have 5 kids who play 3 ways and only have a roster of 40 whereas Trinity has a roster of 100+.

 

In basketball its not that they dont have enough players to field and adequate team, its that the talent isnt there, and although that isnt fair, that is life.

[Tubby's Best Friend]

Heck no they wont make a run....... but it isnt because the system isnt fair. Its because the team is young.

 

Plenty of schools run into that problem, and it has nothing to do with numbers. I know large 4A schools that have that problem. Look at Whitley Co from the 13th region.

 

 

Numbers have a lot to do with it. I doubt Apollo will ever have to dress (6) 8th Grade kids to fill out a varsity roster.

 

But you said we should have a team that should make a run in a few years, that is what I was referring to. I'm pretty pumped since you made me realize that. Now you say we wont make a run. Which is it?

[ukbellco14]

Numbers have a lot to do with it. I doubt Apollo will ever have to dress (6) 8th Grade kids to fill out a varsity roster.

 

But you said we should have a team that should make a run in a few years, that is what I was referring to. I'm pretty pumped since you made me realize that. Now you say we wont make a run. Which is it?

 

Apollo may never have to have 6 8th graders to fill out a roster. I do know of at least a few 4A and 3A teams that have had to do that though (fill out a roster with some 8th graders). That shows me that Apollo's numbers have nothing to do with why they wont ever have to have 6 8th graders to fill out a roster, and that the reason Apollo will probably never have to do this is some other reason apart from numbers.

 

I am saying that based on the numbers..... you probably wont make a run this year.

 

But if it is handled correctly, then you should be able to make a run next year, or 2 years after that, as long as the feeder program is handled correctly.

 

This is all "in theory" though.

 

In all honesty, the talent level may not be there.

 

But like I said...... thats not what this issue is about.

 

I am tired of trying to give every team that cant play worth a hoot a chance to win a championship for the sake of being fair. Life isnt fair. You have to face "bigger & better" everyday in the real world, and you cant go crying to some legislative body to classify the problem for you so that you dont have to face "bigger & better."

 

Its completely stupid. There is a reason the small schools dont compete with the large schools, and it isnt numbers.

 

In football it is numbers. The reason a Belfry cant compete with a Trinity isnt neccessarily because of actual football ability, its because they have 7 kids who play at least two ways and a few that play 3 ways, and only have a roster of 40 for a sport that requires at least 22 different positions not including special teams, whereas Trinity has a roster of 100+.

 

In basketball its not that they dont have enough players to field and adequate team, its that the talent isnt there, and although that isnt fair, that is life.