Basketball in KY needs to be classified...

[ukbellco14]

What's the relevance?(in bold):confused:

 

It's what we've got and what we have to work with.

 

True.... I was just saying to claim that because the KHSAA would recognize a Small School Championship would mean nothing if the state of KY and the ppl involved in the athletics didnt accept it.

 

If the only schools that look at the All A classic as a state championship are single A schools, then I would think that that attitude wouldnt change just because the KHSAA says so.

[stickymitts]

On the bolded.....

 

I dont think so my friend. It seems more hypocritical to me to call oneself "STATE" champion when one didnt have to compete against everyone in the state to get that title.

 

Call yourself State Class X champion all you want (like in football), but to say that you are "STATE" Champion...... no.

 

I will even concede to you and say...... sure, lets classify basketball into 2 classes. Lets have a district, region, and small/big school champion. I still think you would need to do just like I think they should in football and pair those teams up and crown a "STATE" Champion.

 

What will the small schools do then...... cry because they cant win the "STATE" Championship.

 

Semantics. You don't think they'd call the small school state champion the A/AA State Champ or the the Small School State Champ or Division II State Champ? Also, I don't hear anyone crying in football because they can't win the "STATE" Championship.

[BasketballJones]

There is nothing like being in a parade coming back into town with a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP trophy in your bus. Looking out the back window and seeing 200 cars painted with your school colors, horns blowing and lights flashing. Driving through your small single A town and watching the neighbors run to the sidewalks and wave as you pass. Reading all the signs in the store windows. Pulling into your school parking lot full of cars and screaming fans. Walking into your single A gym carrying the trophy of all trophies and hearing the band strike up your school songs. Seeing television stations and radio station on hand to broadcast your homecoming.

 

I been there, done that........Don't change it. 4 trips to the sweet sixteen, 5 trips to the calls A.........No comparsion. Winning a State Class A would be a thrill to any small school........being at the Sweet Sixteen with a chance to win is even a greater thrill.

 

I know what your numbers show, but your numbers don't show dreams. There are kids all over the state shooting hoops right now, and dreaming about making that one shots that wins a state championship, I doubt if any of them are making the shop to win a Class A. Don't take that dream away.

[Butterfly Baby]

There is nothing like being in a parade coming back into town with a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP trophy in your bus. Looking out the back window and seeing 200 cars painted with your school colors, horns blowing and lights flashing. Driving through your small single A town and watching the neighbors run to the sidewalks and wave as you pass. Reading all the signs in the store windows. Pulling into your school parking lot full of cars and screaming fans. Walking into your single A gym carrying the trophy of all trophies and hearing the band strike up your school songs. Seeing television stations and radio station on hand to broadcast your homecoming.

 

I been there, done that........Don't change it. 4 trips to the sweet sixteen, 5 trips to the calls A.........No comparsion. Winning a State Class A would be a thrill to any small school........being at the Sweet Sixteen with a chance to win is even a greater thrill.

 

I know what your numbers show, but your numbers don't show dreams. There are kids all over the state shooting hoops right now, and dreaming about making that one shots that wins a state championship, I don't if any of them are making the shop to win a Class A. Don't take that dream away.

 

Nice post

[stickymitts]

There is nothing like being in a parade coming back into town with a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP trophy in your bus. Looking out the back window and seeing 200 cars painted with your school colors, horns blowing and lights flashing. Driving through your small single A town and watching the neighbors run to the sidewalks and wave as you pass. Reading all the signs in the store windows. Pulling into your school parking lot full of cars and screaming fans. Walking into your single A gym carrying the trophy of all trophies and hearing the band strike up your school songs. Seeing television stations and radio station on hand to broadcast your homecoming.

 

I been there, done that........Don't change it. 4 trips to the sweet sixteen, 5 trips to the calls A.........No comparsion. Winning a State Class A would be a thrill to any small school........being at the Sweet Sixteen with a chance to win is even a greater thrill.

 

I know what your numbers show, but your numbers don't show dreams. There are kids all over the state shooting hoops right now, and dreaming about making that one shots that wins a state championship, I don't if any of them are making the shop to win a Class A. Don't take that dream away.

 

I agree with your sentiments however, they're not dreaming of making the shot to get they're A size team out of the first round.

 

Great interpretation, though.:thumb:

[ukbellco14]

Semantics. You don't think they'd call the small school state champion the A/AA State Champ or the the Small School State Champ or Division II State Champ? Also, I don't hear anyone crying in football because they can't win the "STATE" Championship.

 

Semantics yes........ but the IDEA behind the semantics is the key point I am making.

 

I think the KHSAA and those small schools would call that team the state champ, but that would be about it. That attitude toward that Small School State Championship would remain the same as the attitude toward the All A Classic champion.

 

As far as football goes....... they dont cry because they cant win the "STATE" championship because the gap between those 4 state champions is minimal in most years.

 

However the gap between the Small School Basketball Champ and the Big School Basketball Champ would be HUGE in most cases.

 

I thought I already explained this.

[stickymitts]

Semantics yes........ but the IDEA behind the semantics is the key point I am making.

 

I think the KHSAA and those small schools would call that team the state champ, but that would be about it. That attitude toward that Small School State Championship would remain the same as the attitude toward the All A Classic champion.

 

As far as football goes....... they dont cry because they cant win the "STATE" championship because the gap between those 4 state champions is minimal in most years.

 

However the gap between the Small School Basketball Champ and the Big School Basketball Champ would be HUGE in most cases.

 

I thought I already explained this.

 

I purposely ignored your thought on the football "gap" between A and AAAA schools. Now you made me recognize it. You're telling me that NCC (who got pummeled by CovCath, who didn't make it past the second round) could've competed with Trinity. Let's see, NCC loses by 40 to CCH...CCH loses by 6 to HHS...HHS loses by 40 to Lou. St. X...Lou. St. X loses by ? to Trinity. Those scores are approximates, BTW.

 

To help explain this in basketball terms, for sake of this thread. NCC wins the All 'A' 9th region. They proceed to lose by 20+ to CCH in the 9th Region tournament, who loses their first round game in the Sweet Sixteen. Now, NCC was an exception to the rule this year considering the regional tournament consisted of NCC, Ryle, Dixie, CCH, HHS, Ludlow, Conner and Holmes. Ludlow got out of their district only to lose by 20 to HHS. So, the only small schools in the 9th lost by 20. One in the first round, the other was lucky enough to make it to the finals.

 

The gap is large enough and that's all that matters.

[Tech]

I have seen both Indiana and Kentucky basketball up front as a player and a coach. The worst thing that you can do is go to class basketball. I believe that the All A can be changed a little, but on the most part I like it and the single class state championship.

 

I have watched Indiana schools drop programs, because they couldn't afford them. Some small schools make enough money from the state tournament that they can supplement the non-revenue earning programs. Some of these small schools in Indiana made more money from their portion of their sectional, than they did all year long.

 

I would like to see Indiana start an All A Classic. Coming from Indiana to Kentucky, I believe that you have got it right with the All A Classic. It gives the small schools a chance and they still can compete with the big boys at the end of the year. Yes, they can restructure it a little, but it is a good thing. PLEASE DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AS INDIANA!

[stickymitts]

I have seen both Indiana and Kentucky basketball up front as a player and a coach. The worst thing that you can do is go to class basketball. I believe that the All A can be changed a little, but on the most part I like it and the single class state championship.

 

I have watched Indiana schools drop programs, because they couldn't afford them. Some small schools make enough money from the state tournament that they can supplement the non-revenue earning programs. Some of these small schools in Indiana made more money from their portion of their sectional, than they did all year long.

 

I would like to see Indiana start an All A Classic. Coming from Indiana to Kentucky, I believe that you have got it right with the All A Classic. It gives the small schools a chance and they still can compete with the big boys at the end of the year. Yes, they can restructure it a little, but it is a good thing. PLEASE DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AS INDIANA!

 

How many classes does Indiana have for basketball?

 

4 is a lot different than 2.

[BasketballJones]

I have friends coaching in Indiana, and they tell me it just isn't the same. Talk to the players, ask them if they would rather play in classes or keep it the same.

 

If it wasn't for the Sweet Sixteen would we even care where Cuba or Carr Creek are?

[ukbellco14]

I purposely ignored your thought on the football "gap" between A and AAAA schools. Now you made me recognize it. You're telling me that NCC (who got pummeled by CovCath, who didn't make it past the second round) could've competed with Trinity. Let's see, NCC loses by 40 to CCH...CCH loses by 6 to HHS...HHS loses by 40 to Lou. St. X...Lou. St. X loses by ? to Trinity. Those scores are approximates, BTW.

 

To help explain this in basketball terms, for sake of this thread. NCC wins the All 'A' 9th region. They proceed to lose by 20+ to CCH in the 9th Region tournament, who loses their first round game in the Sweet Sixteen. Now, NCC was an exception to the rule this year considering the regional tournament consisted of NCC, Ryle, Dixie, CCH, HHS, Ludlow, Conner and Holmes. Ludlow got out of their district only to lose by 20 to HHS. So, the only small schools in the 9th lost by 20. One in the first round, the other was lucky enough to make it to the finals.

 

The gap is large enough and that's all that matters.

 

Comparing scores is really not what I meant when talking about the gaps. I think we both understand the problem when you start comparing scores. I am sure that if I did enough research that I could come up with plenty of counter examples that would refute exactly what you just proved.

 

But I will once against concede to you and say OK the gap in football is large enough.

 

This is exactly why you use the classes as seeding.

 

4A vs 1A

3A vs 2A

 

You will almost always have a 4A vs 3 or 2A championship game (that will vary since there is almost no gap between 3 and 2 during most years). Some rare years the 1A champ may upset the 4A champ, but that will be extremely rare. Most all years you are going to have a 4A or 3A team winning the title. Some years you may have a 2A team win the title, and the 1A team will almost never win the title.

 

You still end up with an All Out State Champion though, and it will vary much more then in basketball, where the Large School Champion would almost ALWAYS defeat the Small School Champion in the All Out State Championship game.

[leatherneck]

I have seen both Indiana and Kentucky basketball up front as a player and a coach. The worst thing that you can do is go to class basketball. I believe that the All A can be changed a little, but on the most part I like it and the single class state championship.

 

I have watched Indiana schools drop programs, because they couldn't afford them. Some small schools make enough money from the state tournament that they can supplement the non-revenue earning programs. Some of these small schools in Indiana made more money from their portion of their sectional, than they did all year long.

 

I would like to see Indiana start an All A Classic. Coming from Indiana to Kentucky, I believe that you have got it right with the All A Classic. It gives the small schools a chance and they still can compete with the big boys at the end of the year. Yes, they can restructure it a little, but it is a good thing. PLEASE DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AS INDIANA!

 

I think most people agree with your sentiment that the Sweet 16 is something special and should not be changed. The problem is, as the Ru pointed out, is if classes are important in football (whether for a level playing field, opportunity for multiple teams to get to be in those state championship parades, chances for many kids to get state rings, etc), why isn't it likewise important for basketball? People for the most part keep responding with: "but the Sweet 16 is so special", but is that really sufficient justification? And if so, why shouldn't we try to do the same for football?

[leatherneck]

I have friends coaching in Indiana, and they tell me it just isn't the same. Talk to the players, ask them if they would rather play in classes or keep it the same.

 

If it wasn't for the Sweet Sixteen would we even care where Cuba or Carr Creek are?

 

 

Where are Cuba and Carr Creek? Novermind, I don't care:banana: Note to people from Cuba and Carr Creek, I'm only kidding.

[stickymitts]

I think most people agree with your sentiment that the Sweet 16 is something special and should not be changed. The problem is, as the Ru pointed out, is if classes are important in football (whether for a level playing field, opportunity for multiple teams to get to be in those state championship parades, chances for many kids to get state rings, etc), why isn't it likewise important for basketball? People for the most part keep responding with: "but the Sweet 16 is so special", but is that really sufficient justification? And if so, why shouldn't we try to do the same for football?

 

Exactly...It can't be good/bad for one and not all the others. To increase the level of absurdity we're going to add 2 MORE classes to football while leaving all other sports alone, again. Ridiculous, IMO.

[ukbellco14]

I think most people agree with your sentiment that the Sweet 16 is something special and should not be changed. The problem is, as the Ru pointed out, is if classes are important in football (whether for a level playing field, opportunity for multiple teams to get to be in those state championship parades, chances for many kids to get state rings, etc), why isn't it likewise important for basketball? People for the most part keep responding with: "but the Sweet 16 is so special", but is that really sufficient justification? And if so, why shouldn't we try to do the same for football?

 

We should.

 

In football you should have a district, region, and class champ.

 

How do you do this?

 

1.) Forget the public/private debate and leave football alone.

 

2.) Seed the 4 class champs

 

3.) Play 2 extra games (a semi final and a championship game) and crown an All Out State Football Champion.