Should Ashland and Mike Flynn part ways?

[Wireman]

I could care less, but I thought I'd help the moderators out and start the thread. Now, everyone has a place to argue!!!

[Wireman]

I could care less, but I thought I'd help the moderators out and start the thread. Now, everyone has a place to argue!!!

 

Last night, there was about 25 posts on whether or not Coach Flynn was doing a good job or a horrible job at Ashland. I started a forum to continue the argument and there hasn't been a single post. Go figure!

[STRIKE3]

I like Coach Flynn, both as a person and a coach. A bump in the road, is no reason to get rid of him.

 

Class guy and Ashland will be back.

[Tubbyball]

I get so sick and tired of everybody blaming Flynn. I know and understand the tradition at Ashland but because he has a rough year everybody wants him out. He has done a tremendous job as the head coach at Ashland and at his previous coaching jobs. I am sure that the if he leaves or is ask to resign he will be a success wherever he goes. If he leaves, this region is losing a class act.

[shooterx3]

I think Coach Flynn has earned the right to make his own terms. He was a genuis when Rose Hill was a factor, I dont think he has gotten any dummer,

and Rose Hill is back, I would stick with him.:thumb:

He gets a lot of grief for trying to get shots out of the offense. Most fans dont understand that philosophy. They think he is telling them not to shoot, what he is saying is take a good shot for you. Defining roles can be the toughest job for any coach and they all have kids that fight it.

Then they want you to run up and down the floor and be "exciting", until that gets you beat bad, then they want you to be competitive. Pleasing the fans can be a "moving target". Reality is, the people that make the final decision

are firmly behind Coach Flynn. The rest of us can debate all day long on the internet, but is just for "conversation only"

[Mustang]

I'm an outsider looking in here and have no dog in this fight.

 

I've known Coach Flynn since he was at Holmes and have always known him to be a dedicated, conscientious, coach with a brilliant basketball mind.

 

If anyone doubts that, sit down and X and O with him. He has a total understanding of the game and has a Roscoe Denny-like ability to draw up a play for any situation.

 

I know from our recent experience in the Ashland Invitational Tournament and chatting with him about his team and his players that he has confidence in them and always feels that they are on the verge of a break-out. He revels in his wins and the progress that is made when things go well, and beats himself up and assumes the burden of the loss when they don't.

 

He is a tireless worker always seeking an answer and obviously is devoted to his players. The kind of guy I'd want my son to play for.

 

Whether the honeymoon in Ashland is over and if he would be better served getting a fresh start elsewhere is an answer that he will have to answer himself.

 

Just from reading the myriad of posts here on BGP when Ashland wins or loses tells me that he is in a pressure-cooker and lives under a microscope.

 

Should he make a move someone will be getting a fine veteran coach to coach their team and care about their players. Whoever replaces him at Ashland better come in with iron skin and a solid resolve to do the right thing by the program and team without bending to public scrutiny, because the dissection will begin immediately following his first game.

[Frances Bavier]

Every fan that pays for their ticket has the right to question what happens at a ballgame. If you put ten people in the stands, you will have ten interpretations of what just happened on the floor (or the field).

 

TomcatPride is entitled to his opinion, just as all of us are. Like Shooterx3 stated, the powers that be in the Ashland system will not be swayed by the opinions of the people that post on BGP - nor should they be.

 

Like everyone that has ever coached - any sport at any level - there will come a time when Mike Flynn is no longer the coach at Ashland. It happens in the pros, it happens at the collegiate level, and it happens at the high school level. It is inevitable. WHEN it happens will be decided by two people - Mike Flynn and Mark Swift. As long as Swift sees Flynn as a productive coach, he will ask Mike to stay. As long as Flynn feels like he is doing a good job and being fairly compensated, he will stay. When either of those conditions are no longer being met, the marriage will be dissolved.

 

No parent (or fan) will have any impact on the date that that comes to pass - nor should they. This same statement is true at every other school in the 16th Region (or, it should be).

 

Over time, every head coach will alienate people. For some, it will be based on a lack of playing time for their son, for some it will be because they don't appreciate a coach's style, and for others, it will be because deep down inside, they honestly think that they know more about the game than the coach in question. The reason that someone forms their opinion is immaterial. That is exactly why a good AD listens politely to the masses, nods his head knowingly, then walks away from fans and parents. It is also the reason that 99.9% of all AD's are former coaches.

 

I said all of that to say this - as far as I'm concerned, Flynn should leave Ashland on his own terms. He has lost games that he should have won, he has won games that he should have lost, he has conducted himself with class (even when some parents tried to have him fired with a petition), he represents Ashland extremely well, he is an ambassador of 16th Region basketball around the state, and he has forgotten more basketball than the vast majority of the fans ever even suspected about the game.

 

Is he a perfect coach? Not even close. I can't bear to watch the last 20 seconds of each quarter, knowing that we probably won't even get a shot, much less a good one. Does he see every kid in the program through the same eyes that I do? Not at all. When he came to Ashland, he was probably too lenient in how he handled players. Over time, he has been beseiged by some of the most ridiculous demands from parents imaginable, and that has changed him as a person.

 

Through all of it, he's still a winner. When the time comes for him to leave Ashland (and it will inevitably come), I'b be elated to see him come to Oldham County, Kentucky.

 

Over Ashland's history, they've been blessed with some coaches that were absolutely top notch. James Anderson, Harold Cole, Wayne Breeden, Mike Flynn, and a host of others. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses, and Flynn is no different. In my book, his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses - and it isn't even close.

 

Frances

[MBWC41]

Coach Flynn and Ashland have no reason to part. He's won a lot of games at Ashland and seems to be a good coach. One "bad" season is no reason for these two to part.

[stickymitts]

I like Coach Flynn, both as a person and a coach. A bump in the road, is no reason to get rid of him.

 

Class guy and Ashland will be back.

:thumb:

[duck1220]

Every fan that pays for their ticket has the right to question what happens at a ballgame. If you put ten people in the stands, you will have ten interpretations of what just happened on the floor (or the field).

 

TomcatPride is entitled to his opinion, just as all of us are. Like Shooterx3 stated, the powers that be in the Ashland system will not be swayed by the opinions of the people that post on BGP - nor should they be.

 

Like everyone that has ever coached - any sport at any level - there will come a time when Mike Flynn is no longer the coach at Ashland. It happens in the pros, it happens at the collegiate level, and it happens at the high school level. It is inevitable. WHEN it happens will be decided by two people - Mike Flynn and Mark Swift. As long as Swift sees Flynn as a productive coach, he will ask Mike to stay. As long as Flynn feels like he is doing a good job and being fairly compensated, he will stay. When either of those conditions are no longer being met, the marriage will be dissolved.

 

No parent (or fan) will have any impact on the date that that comes to pass - nor should they. This same statement is true at every other school in the 16th Region (or, it should be).

 

Over time, every head coach will alienate people. For some, it will be based on a lack of playing time for their son, for some it will be because they don't appreciate a coach's style, and for others, it will be because deep down inside, they honestly think that they know more about the game than the coach in question. The reason that someone forms their opinion is immaterial. That is exactly why a good AD listens politely to the masses, nods his head knowingly, then walks away from fans and parents. It is also the reason that 99.9% of all AD's are former coaches.

 

I said all of that to say this - as far as I'm concerned, Flynn should leave Ashland on his own terms. He has lost games that he should have won, he has won games that he should have lost, he has conducted himself with class (even when some parents tried to have him fired with a petition), he represents Ashland extremely well, he is an ambassador of 16th Region basketball around the state, and he has forgotten more basketball than the vast majority of the fans ever even suspected about the game.

 

Is he a perfect coach? Not even close. I can't bear to watch the last 20 seconds of each quarter, knowing that we probably won't even get a shot, much less a good one. Does he see every kid in the program through the same eyes that I do? Not at all. When he came to Ashland, he was probably too lenient in how he handled players. Over time, he has been beseiged by some of the most ridiculous demands from parents imaginable, and that has changed him as a person.

 

Through all of it, he's still a winner. When the time comes for him to leave Ashland (and it will inevitably come), I'b be elated to see him come to Oldham County, Kentucky.

 

Over Ashland's history, they've been blessed with some coaches that were absolutely top notch. James Anderson, Harold Cole, Wayne Breeden, Mike Flynn, and a host of others. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses, and Flynn is no different. In my book, his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses - and it isn't even close.

 

Frances

 

What she said!!!!

[BogeyMan]

Flynn is an excellent coach with a lot of class. He is a credit to Ashland and the 16th Region. If the Tomcat Nation wants rid of him, I know of many schools that would love to have him.

[Crazed 15th]

A Great post Frances Bavier.

 

I am not an Ashland Fan, in all honesty I do not care much for the Tomcats at all. But Mike Flynn is a very good coach in my eyes. His kids are always classy and very fundamental. They always play extremley hard and have never stepped on the floor not prepared. Flynn is a class act and is not the kind to make excuses. I am a Sheldon Clark graduate and was a senior on the 2004 team that topped Ashland in the secoind game of the year. After the game Flynn spoke with the radio announcers and said all the right things. He is a good basketball coach, but more importantley he is a great person and that is the kind of people that we need to coach our children.

[TomcatPride]

Seems like I've stirred up some emotions with my simple opinions. It also seems like no one is tripping over themselves to agree with me in any way. That's fine, but it seems strange considering all the rumblings and mumblings in the Tomcat stands recently. It doesn't matter, I'm just offering my opinion on the matter to potentially provoke other posters and give them something to think about.

 

But it seems like everyone is misinterpreting my stance, or maybe I'm not making it clear enough. First off, Mike Flynn is a great coach. His record proves that, his knowledge proves that, he's a very smart coach. This is also not anything against Mike Flynn the person, he's a great man with a lot of class and heart, and we all know he has made a lot of sacrifices to win at Ashland. This is strictly an opinion based on his coaching style.

 

In my simple opinion, there are two types of coaches for high school basketball. One is the great schemer, the disiciplinarian, he demands perfection. He can take a group of kids with a lot of talent and elevate them to win state championships. Guys like Haney, Billy Hicks, Bevars, and the like would be in this group. Mike Flynn is this type of coach.

 

In the past several years, this type of coach could win at Ashland. There was a deep pool of talent with guys like Arbaugh, Surgalski, Beach, Howard, and Howell. These kids could be inserted into Flynn's system and executed to relative perfection. He had post players who could score and rebound, shooters who were deadly, and point guards that could make things happen. Now, these types of players aren't in the cards, and from judging the young kids coming through the ranks, there isn't anything there either. Coming back next year, Ashland has 3 players who are very talented. Unfortunately, they are all best suited to play the 2. McDavid will be forced to play out of position at the 4, while Wilcox and Thomas will probably be inserted into the 2 and the 3. There will be no size, no true point guards, and probably another disappointing season in Flynn's system.

 

That said, the other type of coach is the motivator. The type of coach that can take a group of kids with average talent and elevate them to compete and beat teams with relatively better talent. Guys like Cooksey, Perry, Riley, and the like fit this model. They can groom and develop raw talent and young kids into a competitive team with solid role players and can ask for everything out of their players and usually get it. I don't think Ashland can say that their players gave everything they could for Coach Flynn during his tenure. Not to question the heart of the Tomcats, but they've been consistantly out hustled, in my opinion, over the years. I think the future of the Ashland program will demand a coach who can draw everything out of his players in order to field a team that can compete and win the region, not count on the established talent of a couple players to lead them to glory.

 

The list of players over the last few years who could have been great role players in the right system, but never found their niche or suceess in a Tomcat uniform is rather long. A common link between those players is that they hated playing basketball for Ashland, they hated the system, and from that it can be pretty well deduced that they didn't give their all for Ashland and Coach Flynn to win. That's a shame.

 

Maybe the two parties shouldn't part ways, but if Flynn doesn't become flexible with his system, Ashland will be in for .500 seasons for years to come and early exits in Morehead.

 

You can berate my opinions and disagree with them all you want, I'm just being realistic, in my own mind. The great talent pool in Ashland just isn't there anymore, and Flynn is the type of coach that needs that pool to win. I think Ashland needs a revamped system that can develop what talent there is to the best of their ability and develop a system around a whole team in order to compete.

 

We've got to get over this idea of our great past and that we play for State Championships every year. We can't worry about that for the next few years, it isn't gonna happen, we must focus ourselves to have 20-win seasons and putting emphasis on winning every game we play. Posters are quick to say I'm calling for his head after this last loss and the early exit, but these thoughts have been around for a few years, I just think now is as good as time as any to say them. Elliott Co. wanted to win that game more than Ashland did because we thought we were going to win because we are Ashland. That mindset must be changed, and I honestly believe Ashland would be better off in the long run if the program was revamped and Mike Flynn and Ashland parted ways.

[TomcatPride]

A Great post Frances Bavier.

 

I am not an Ashland Fan, in all honesty I do not care much for the Tomcats at all. But Mike Flynn is a very good coach in my eyes. His kids are always classy and very fundamental. They always play extremley hard and have never stepped on the floor not prepared. Flynn is a class act and is not the kind to make excuses. I am a Sheldon Clark graduate and was a senior on the 2004 team that topped Ashland in the secoind game of the year. After the game Flynn spoke with the radio announcers and said all the right things. He is a good basketball coach, but more importantley he is a great person and that is the kind of people that we need to coach our children.

 

Like I said, he is a good coach, he is a class act, he is a great person, and he does say all the right things. But his teams don't always play extremely hard. Elliott Co. outhustled them last night because they simply wanted it more. I'm looking much deeper than how good of a coach he is or how great of a guy he is. Elliott Co. had never beaten Ashland before last night. Times have changed. I think Ashland's program needs to change with it.

 

I forgot to add in my last post, but this doesn't really apply to Flynn. If Elliott Co. lost last night, most of their kids would be in the basketball gym the next day or week, preparing for AAU or summer ball. But since Ashland lost, Cannoy, Williams, Rose, and Wilcox hit the baseball field, McDavid, Thomas, and Bonner hit the football weight room. With the exception of Wilcox, I would say that basketball isn't the #1 sport for any of these kids. Maybe with a revamped basketball program, it would be the #1 sport. How to do that? I'm not quite sure, but that's not my job.

 

If you don't agree with what I said, I at least hope you see where I'm coming from with my opinions.

[Rickyp]

TomcatPride, I for one missunderstood your origional post. I think you have made your point very clear and it was well thoughtout.

 

I certainly have no grounds to disagree with you about Ashland's future because time will only tell. I do feel that Coach Flynn has earned the right to decide on his future himself and I think the decision making people at Ashland feel the same.

 

I have mixed emotions about this subject. As a Rose Hill fan I would love to see him leave (for competitive reasons) but on the other hand I really appriciate how hard his teams play.