Lexington Public Football - It just doesn't Make Sense

[RowdyRedRam]

How is it, or why is it, that a city the size of Lexington, in 28 years, has only been able to produce ONE Public School State Champion? I know Trinity and X present an obvious roadblock, but to have SO FEW appearance by a city that is the second largest by a wide margin points to the fact that there is a real problem somewhere. What say you, why has this city failed so miserably at producing Public School football teams that can get over the hump?

I'm not going to say that internal causes have no effect on Lexington schools, but I think your being a little harsh on them.

 

I think all 6A schools are "up against it" in terms of competing for a championship, Lexington schools especially. For one thing X and T are that good and we have probably +100 threads explaining why. But also they don't get the benefit that Louisville schools have had with open enrollment.

 

I'm a big believer in open enrollment for creating great schools that kids who want to succeed can go to, however open enrollment makes winners and losers. In Louisville you have "winner" programs and los... "not winner" programs. In Lexington you get a changing carousel of talent from schools with no single public school maintaining constant talent levels.

 

If Lexington were to have open enrollment I strongly believe that they would field a team that would be stronger traditionally than what we are accustomed to.

 

I think the fact that they are the second largest city is somewhat irrelevant to the conversation because they primarily play vs the largest city within 6A competition.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Even with LCA and Lex. Cath., you still do not even have publics in Lexington that stack up in the way that Male has. You would think at least ONE public out of Lexington would grab the kind of ownership of the public domain like Male has...yet they all seem fairly balanced in mediocrity. :confused:

 

 

Does Fayette County have the open enrollment that Jefferson County has that allows athletes to pool at one public school?

[footballhd]

What other 6A public school in Louisville has won a state championship besides Male? I am pretty sure the answer is none! So we are kinda beating a dead horse because other than Male, Louisville 6A is in the same boat as Lexington 6A.

[Commander 25]

What other 6A public school in Louisville has won a state championship besides Male? I am pretty sure the answer is none! So we are kinda beating a dead horse because other than Male, Louisville 6A is in the same boat as Lexington 6A.

 

Since 1975 starting the 4 classes it has been other than X and T, that has won a state title.

 

79 Butler

81 Henry Clay

82 Christian Co

84 Christian Co

87 Shelby Co

91 George Rogers Clark

93 Male

96 Nelson Co

98 Male

00 Male

 

Wow didn't realize that 2 schools Christian and Male won 2 and 3 of those repectively.

[leatherneck]

I'm not going to say that internal causes have no effect on Lexington schools, but I think your being a little harsh on them.

 

I think all 6A schools are "up against it" in terms of competing for a championship, Lexington schools especially. For one thing X and T are that good and we have probably +100 threads explaining why. But also they don't get the benefit that Louisville schools have had with open enrollment.

 

I'm a big believer in open enrollment for creating great schools that kids who want to succeed can go to, however open enrollment makes winners and losers. In Louisville you have "winner" programs and los... "not winner" programs. In Lexington you get a changing carousel of talent from schools with no single public school maintaining constant talent levels.

 

If Lexington were to have open enrollment I strongly believe that they would field a team that would be stronger traditionally than what we are accustomed to.

 

I think the fact that they are the second largest city is somewhat irrelevant to the conversation because they primarily play vs the largest city within 6A competition.

 

That's a great post RRR and sets forth some interesting things to consider. Having said that, I think there are some "issues" in Lexington that set back the quality of high school football. Golfer has great insight to the situation and I'd defer heavily to what he has to say about it.

[footballhd]

Since 1975 starting the 4 classes it has been other than X and T, that has won a state title.

 

79 Butler

81 Henry Clay

82 Christian Co

84 Christian Co

87 Shelby Co

91 George Rogers Clark

93 Male

96 Nelson Co

98 Male

00 Male

 

Wow didn't realize that 2 schools Christian and Male won 2 and 3 of those repectively.

 

 

Thanks for proving my point. I overlooked Butler. Other than Male, Lexington schools are on par with Louisville schools. EVEN WITHOUT OPEN ENROLLMENT. It isnt helping the Louisville schools, other than Male, and I do believe their entrance requirements are different than other schools, but back to point it is not helping the other 15 schools in Jefferson win a state championship.

[Ram]

How would this conversation change if Trinity and St. Xavier were located in Lexington. Shouldn't the question be how does all the state 6A programs compete with the top two teams in 6A, not just Lexington? You can't measure just the Lexington 6A teams against the Louisville powers.

[Blockbuster]

How many times has a public school beaten X-T this decade?

[some_guy]

Golfer has some grat points and I agree that there are many underlying issues here. I would like to add that there seems to be limited community support. I have been to games in the city and out in the surrounding counties and football just doesn't draw in LEX. I went to the HC / Trinity playoff game a few years ago and it looked like Trinity had more fans there than HC. Maybe this goes back to a previous poster that was talking about family and community support but there has to be a reason that these schools do not get consistent support. If the students would just come out it would create a better atmosphere, i mean Dunbar has over 2000 students and I went to their first game and there were like 500 people there.

[CentreRocks]

How many times has a public school beaten X-T this decade?

 

Trinity

2000: Highlands and Male

2003: Manual and Seneca

2004: Dixie Heights

 

St. X

2000: Male

2001: Male and Meade County

2002: Male and Male

2006: Male and Male

[UNDERTHEBRIDGE]

How would this conversation change if Trinity and St. Xavier were located in Lexington. Shouldn't the question be how does all the state 6A programs compete with the top two teams in 6A, not just Lexington? You can't measure just the Lexington 6A teams against the Louisville powers.

 

I think the biggest belief Ram, in regards to this topic is the fact that based simply on population, one would have to believe Lexington would have the greatest chance of fielding at least one Public High School that could compete with the likes of T or X. That is besides the Louisville Publics which have seen only Male ever emerge as that third team.

 

Many people have brought up some interesting points and I think the full answer lies in a combination of all these points. First, their isn't as strong a backing for the sport of football in Lexington as there is for other sports. I have no clue why, but when it comes to sports, I'd have to rank Football as third or fourth most popular at the youth levels. Baseball, Basketball, and Soccer seem to have a wider influence in this city. I think this could be evidenced by the relative success or competitiveness Lexington has shown in these three sports over the years compared to football.

 

Second, the success and existence of Catholic and Christian do to some extent hinder the success of the Public Schools. The talent pool exists in this city, but it is probably nowhere near the extent of Louisville. Water it down some for the Public Schools by removing a few players here and there to the Private schools and the talent will suffer some.

 

Third, open enrollment could benefit Lexington schools to some degree in sports while also pushing some schools to really bolster their academics to improve enrollment. However, I am not sure how feasible this is at this point. Dunbar can only grow so far before it would become overpopulated. Bryan Station would be a real interesting situation as well, and Henry Clay could also benefit from this. Tates Creek and Lafayette would be left somewhere in the middle.

 

On a side note, I think Dunbar might be the most disappointing of all Lexington Schools. Here is a school with a monster enrollment, nice facillities, a decent drawing area in the city, good academics that attract students, etc. Yet recently I feel they have fielded mediocre teams. Mainly just stating something more then anything else.

[Bluegrasscard]

Probably, a good part of the problem is the relatively weak middle school football policies of FCPS. They can be found here:

 

http://www.fcps.net/media/24671/msguidelines0809.pdf#search="football policy"

 

- 7 games maximum regular season. Most MS programs play 10+ I believe.

 

- Mandatory 'B' games for non-starters. A good inclusive concept. But this makes it hard for a coach to focus on the 'regular game'.

 

 

I have known some of the teachers that coached FCPS MS football and they would do the best they could within the official policy. But there seemed to be little or no tie in the high school programs and I did not hear of the HS staff getting involved with MS program much.

 

Success at the HS level starts in the MS level. Look at the Louisville Catholic leagues that feed not only the Catholic HSs in Louisville but many players then go into public HS and take that basic football knowledge with them, thus making even the Louisville public schools better.

 

Look at Bell County - they won the state this year at the HS level. Oh by the way. They have a very strong, well supported MS program. They were undefeated in conference play and played in the KYMSFA Conference on Conference championships on November 1st. My understanding is that School Superintendent came for that event. That is REAL and visible support from your school system. They also had players go to San Antonio for the MS All-American Bowl and shine on a nationwide level.

 

Simply put - MS programs provide a foundation for at least potential success at the HS level. FCPS does not have a strong MS stucture to support a strong pipeline for HS. And its not the coaches or parents fault - some of the weakness are actually built into the formal policy.

[Log Mountain Boy]

Probably, a good part of the problem is the relatively weak middle school football policies of FCPS. They can be found here:

 

http://www.fcps.net/media/24671/msguidelines0809.pdf#search="football policy"

 

- 7 games maximum regular season. Most MS programs play 10+ I believe.

 

- Mandatory 'B' games for non-starters. A good inclusive concept. But this makes it hard for a coach to focus on the 'regular game'.

 

 

I have known some of the teachers that coached FCPS MS football and they would do the best they could within the official policy. But there seemed to be little or no tie in the high school programs and I did not hear of the HS staff getting involved with MS program much.

 

Success at the HS level starts in the MS level. Look at the Louisville Catholic leagues that feed not only the Catholic HSs in Louisville but many players then go into public HS and take that basic football knowledge with them, thus making even the Louisville public schools better.

 

Look at Bell County - they won the state this year at the HS level. Oh by the way. They have a very strong, well supported MS program. They were undefeated in conference play and played in the KYMSFA Conference on Conference championships on November 1st. My understanding is that School Superintendent came for that event. That is REAL and visible support from your school system. They also had players go to San Antonio for the MS All-American Bowl and shine on a nationwide level.

 

Simply put - MS programs provide a foundation for at least potential success at the HS level. FCPS does not have a strong MS stucture to support a strong pipeline for HS. And its not the coaches or parents fault - some of the weakness are actually built into the formal policy.

 

Your right. Lexington has poor middle school programs for football and basketball. Its a bit of a joke. I know this is football thread, but in basketball your seeing a lot of the best athletes transferring out of the city schools. Here are some examples I can think of from just the last couple years:

 

Sanford-Lafayette to LexCath

Beckham brothers-Bryan Station to LexCath

Guyn-Henry Clay to Scott Co.

Barner-Bryan Station (I think) to Mason Co.

[goeligo]

Having first hand experience with two sons going through two different middle schools in Lexington, all observations are accurate!!!

[Blockbuster]

Why would players transfer after middle school if it is such a bad experience. One would think they either transfer before they begin middle school or move on to their respective HS glad to be out of the middle school.