Why are St. Xavier and Trinity so dominant in Football

[BuddyBW]

I was looking at St.X web site and found that 9 players from ST.X are on UofL's football roster this year. Not bad for not being good athletes.

 

Dawgs, one is a kicker, another is a punter. Two are longsnappers. The only one that went to UL on scholarship is Vic. Tronzo has earned a scholarship (at least I think he has) after walking on to the team. Bisig is also a walkon. Clark is not on the current roster on UL's site, but he was also a walkon.

 

The only two I would say are great athletes are Tronzo and Vic (no offense to the other guys, as they have specific skills) and only Vic earned a scholly coming out of high school.

 

Male on the other hand has four guys on the team who all earned scholarships coming out of high school.

[dawgs83]

Dawgs, one is a kicker, another is a punter. Two are longsnappers. The only one that went to UL on scholarship is Vic. Tronzo has earned a scholarship (at least I think he has) after walking on to the team. Bisig is also a walkon. Clark is not on the current roster on UL's site, but he was also a walkon.

 

The only two I would say are great athletes are Tronzo and Vic (no offense to the other guys, as they have specific skills) and only Vic earned a scholly coming out of high school.

 

Male on the other hand has four guys on the team who all earned scholarships coming out of high school.

 

Long snappers on the other hand usually make pretty good offensive lineman in high school. Thats just players at UofL. How many more are at other colleges. As for Male they are usually the only public school that can compete with X & T. Redman has won Three titles there. Those kids on UofL's roster won a lot of games at Male including beating X twice in one year before losing to Trinity on a goal line stance. These schools have good football players and lots of them. If you dont want to call them "athletes" so be it. You need to define what an athlete is in Football. If I recall last years courier Journal preview had a picture of Coach Glaser standing in front of his ofensive line which averaged like 6'3 285 lbs. Now maybe they are not good athletes but I bet they can open some holes for running backs to run through.

[MountainThunder]

1. Youth feeder programs are 2nd to none (go to a Catholic league middle school game and see the best in the state)

2. If you are a great football player in the Ville, you would want to play there so they get many of the best players

3. Excellent coaches

4. Excellent support and boosters programs

5. Players understand teamwork

[jimmyref]

Louisville Public schools do have great feeder program. East, West and South enda have very good leagues. I would take the Optimis AND Muhammid league champions over the Toy Bowl Champion any day. T/X is getting a hodge podge of players from various coaching schemes as well. It all boils down to coaching. Redman, Higgins, Johnson would like to compare to the X/T coaches, but they don't. It's coaches first then support second. If Coach Bocko could find a good coach, who knows what would happen at Bulter.

I would take the optimist winner easily over the Toy Bowl ( except St Patrick this year) winners but the optimist and the muhammed ali league go to 20 different schools. The toy bowl winners and the other best athletes on the 79 football teams in the CSAA all go to T and X except a few to Manual, Desales and Holy Cross. Male has closed the path for non traditional students and the other schools are not getting enough to make an impact. Think about that number- 79 teams spanning 6 grades. each team with about 20 kids. 1580 kids split by the 6 grades = 263 kids coming out each year with pretty good coaching, split between 2 schools primarily. Or roughly the 130 kids for each freshmen class. Add in some public school kids who ONLY want a good education and you can see the main reason why. Cincinnati has about the same size metro area but it is split 4 major ways( St X, Elder, Lasalle and Moeller) and 3 smaller school in Bacon, Purcell, and McNicholas. Plus Kentucky student athletes are not allowed to play for an Ohio school. So with the exception of St X, the 3 remaining schools have about 900-1000 kids. They still dominate the football.

[thsrocks]

Louisville Public schools do have great feeder program. East, West and South enda have very good leagues. I would take the Optimis AND Muhammid league champions over the Toy Bowl Champion any day. T/X is getting a hodge podge of players from various coaching schemes as well. It all boils down to coaching. Redman, Higgins, Johnson would like to compare to the X/T coaches, but they don't. It's coaches first then support second. If Coach Bocko could find a good coach, who knows what would happen at Bulter.

 

The weight limits for the skill players make it difficult to compare the Optimist League, Independent League, and CSAA (Parochial League). I understand the J-town Independent team is weighed once in the summer. After that, the backs may gain as much weight as they want. I'll take the discipline and work ethic emphasized by the coaches in the CSAA over the non-CSAA teams.

[RowdyRedRam]

Louisville Public schools do have great feeder program. East, West and South enda have very good leagues. I would take the Optimis AND Muhammid league champions over the Toy Bowl Champion any day. T/X is getting a hodge podge of players from various coaching schemes as well. It all boils down to coaching. Redman, Higgins, Johnson would like to compare to the X/T coaches, but they don't. It's coaches first then support second. If Coach Bocko could find a good coach, who knows what would happen at Bulter.

I agree that the optimist teams are specifically stronger than the catholic teams at the youth level, but I disagree that the feeder program is as beneficial for the public schools than the the catholic league is for the X and T. For one thing virtually the entire catholic league feeds into two schools, the optimist league spreads to many many more.

 

In no way do I want to diminish the abilities or accomplishments of the X and T coaching staffs. But the comparison is apples to oranges, you can't tell me that Beatty or Glaser would be just as successful at Atherton or Moore or even Male or Manual for that matter. Again I don't want to say that they are less than great coaches but they are playing with a stacked deck compared to the other program. The numbers alone make it much more possible for these teams to run more disciplined systems, think about if Player A doesn't do what he is supposed to you have player B, C, and D all capable of coming right in and replacing him, but if player B simply isn't capable of playing at the level of competition you lose a lot of authority in how you handle player A.

 

Many coaches have come out of the X and T coaching circles to try there hand with a public school, there isn't a whole lot of evidence to show that they can bring a public school up to the level of these private programs.

[thsrocks]

IMHO - T & X compete totally in all other sports. Both have made great gains with their Baseball Teams. Why both do not reach the same heights in BAsketball is an entirely different debate and source on consternation.

 

One other thing. Attend any other Friday night contest (except T or X) and take note of the crowds. It is questionable whether there is even one fan for every young man on the team. SUPPORT AND COMITTMENT. Don't think you can lay that fact "off on us."

 

There aren't too many Division One prospects in basketball in the CSAA. Many of the most talented basketball players will not consider paying tuition, especially when Ballard, J-town, PRP and Manual are free and do very well in basketball. No one team has been that dominant in either of these sports. Scott County has become very popular in basketball only for those wanting to move and transfer in to a good program. We'll have to see how many state titles this turns into.

[Hey-Ref]

1. Program notoriety - success breeds success. People want to be associated with a winner. People are proud to be fans of winning programs.

2. Young kids grow up watching older brothers, cousins and neighbors and want to be part of that same program. They'll work to achieve that goal.

3. Community support, both cash and time and less tangible means

4. Coaching - young players are continually being developed through youth leagues, freshman and JV into good varsity players

5. Numbers - Having big numbers means you'll be more able to find the player to fill a position. More competition for positions pushes players to perform at a higher level.

6. Last but not least, Trinity, St. X, Highlands and others would not have as many titles if there were more parity in the KHSAA. These schools/teams can all compete with the best from Ohio, Tennesseee and other states, but would not win as many titles if they were in Ohio or those other states, becasue there are many more higher caliber teams in other states.

 

What I did not include in this list is facilites and equipment. There are many lesser teams with great facilities and equipment that don't have 1/10th the success. In the case of private schools, the facilites come after the success due to lack of public funding.

[RowdyRedRam]

I think you forgot something very important. PARENTS & ADMINISTRATION. At most public schools, there is a sense of entitlement. A sense that because I am a Senior I should start and play the whole game. When that does not happen, the parents then go crying to the coach for their son is entitled to play. Can ANYONE picture a parent doing that with Beatty or Glaser? NO. If the public coach does not allow this type of meeting, then the administration climbs their back.

 

Bottom line - most Private Schools hire the BEST COACH for the job and they let him COACH. Most public schools find the best person, that fills a teaching need and will not rock the boat for the administration. Winning cures a lot of ills. Whether parents of X & T players like the coaches will never be known as long as their bench sitting son is given a championship ring.

I'm going to disagree to an extent. It isn't that these scenarios don't exist but this is an individual school issue, the specific school administration can dictate how these issues are handeled.

[doubledeuce]

I agree that the optimist teams are specifically stronger than the catholic teams at the youth level, but I disagree that the feeder program is as beneficial for the public schools than the the catholic league is for the X and T. For one thing virtually the entire catholic league feeds into two schools, the optimist league spreads to many many more.

 

In no way do I want to diminish the abilities or accomplishments of the X and T coaching staffs. But the comparison is apples to oranges, you can't tell me that Beatty or Glaser would be just as successful at Atherton or Moore or even Male or Manual for that matter. Again I don't want to say that they are less than great coaches but they are playing with a stacked deck compared to the other program. The numbers alone make it much more possible for these teams to run more disciplined systems, think about if Player A doesn't do what he is supposed to you have player B, C, and D all capable of coming right in and replacing him, but if player B simply isn't capable of playing at the level of competition you lose a lot of authority in how you handle player A.

 

Many coaches have come out of the X and T coaching circles to try there hand with a public school, there isn't a whole lot of evidence to show that they can bring a public school up to the level of these private programs.

 

I think a great example is Coach Coverdale. It did not work out as well for him so he returned to Trinity.

 

Coverdale is recognized nationally for his innovative offenses and the concepts that they accompany.

[RowdyRedRam]

Perhaps X & T -- do not have the better atheletes. They merely make the better teams.

I used to agree with you but over the last few (I mean two or three) years I no longer see public schools holding an atheletic advantage.

[JIM SEYMOUR # 85]

Which came first support and commitment or winning?

 

DD

 

The SUPPORT AND COMMITMENT came first. Without question. Once upon a time, T was the cast off - also ran. Not mentioned in the same breath at X, Flaget, Male, Manual, Butler, TJ (if any of you remember them), et. al. And - not that long ago.

 

Made and willed ourselves to work harder and get better and "break into" the upper echelon. The winning was the by-product.

[TonyDanza]

I used to agree with you but over the last few (I mean two or three) years I no longer see public schools holding an atheletic advantage.

 

Even with T/X being so dominant in football I do not believe they have the better athletes. I believe the overall package which includes the football history, administration, coaches, parents, community support and the overall work ethic that these young men get instilled starting at 7,8,9 etc years old is what makes a difference. I believe that every year T/X have a handful that have exceptional or true God given talent. The rest are good athletes with great work ethics.

[RockPride]

Which came first support and commitment or winning?

 

With us it has to be commitment first, followed by support, and lastly winning...it took us sometime to get on top...now that we've been there for about 40 years, it makes the other two much easier.

[MountainThunder]

Trinity used to be terrible in the 50's and 60's, ... just plain terrible. The problem? Lack of effort and commitment. Then in the 1960's they got the commitment and support to build a program. The rest, as they say, is history.