Why are St. Xavier and Trinity so dominant in Football

[NoBias]

Three Reasons:

1) Facilities- X and T are privately funded by successful alumni who can pay for their Division 1 weight rooms, and their luxurious stadiums

2) Population- They both have the largest amount of boys in the largest city in the state and they can pull from anywhere they want, including southern Indiana(where Deuce Finch is from).

3)Coaches- As a recent graduate of St.X, I have encountered the coaches first hand. Most of the coaches there are alumni and their dream job is to coach at St. Xavier High School. They have so much pride in their alma mater and they put more time and effort into their job than a regular coach. They discipline their players to the limit and get everything out of them. Football is the ultimate team game and their coaching makes the players come together better than any other.

[msurock6]

I think one thing that might not have been considered yet is the interchanging of coaches. By this I mean that even if someone graduates from T or X, that doesn't necessarily mean that they might want to go teach/coach at said school. I'm aware of quite a few coaches from both T and X that "jump ship" and eventually end up at the other school. When this happens, mentalities, schemes, plays get more or less integrated into the other school. I'm not saying it always happens, but if you are taught a certain way then that is how you are going to in turn do the teaching, kinda sub-consciously passing along that info. People from both schools recognize and respect one another's communities enough to realize that ending up at the other might not be as bad as they told us in high school.

[FanOfHoltz]

Normally, I try to stay out of this argument, but someone said something to me that really made me think about this more. So here is my take.

 

Trinity and St. X dominate but it didnt happen overnight. It took a long time for them to get to this level. I am in my 30's and I can remember growing up with neighbors on both sides of my house whose sons went to either T or X. Both played football. But even before they went, to them (and their parents), it was considered a "privilege and an honor" to be able to play football for either team. When you go to a team like T or X, you are competing against probably 40 other players who vying for playing time at particular spot. This encourages hard work, committment and competition internally, thus leading to a "may the best man win, start and/or play" mentality. It was one thing to dress for T and X, its another to start and play. It reminds me of florida and texas schools...where you arent entitled to anything, you earn every bit of what you get. This internal competition only breeds hard working, committed players...benefitting the team.

Second, I agree the feeder schools play a big role in helping. Optimist leagues just dont breed this kind of success. Even Fern Creek Optimist players are bound to go to Seneca, Atherton, or wherever. I would venture to say that most Catholic Middle School players have every intention of going to either X or T. By and large, these relationships and teamwork built are continuing on into HS.

Third, very rarely do you see kids at public schools WANT to go to a school like Eastern, Ballard, or wherever JUST to play football. In many cases (not all) its about where you live or can get into.

 

Fourth, I think Money and Support from fans go a long way. I dont know what the coaches make at T or X, but I am guessing its more than just $4 or $5,000 dollars per year. I could be wrong, but often times, money to pay a good staff goes a long way...kind of like "you get what you pay for". Again, I could be wrong, but if this is the case, then it would be a reason.

 

Talking about support, its hard for kids to get up for playing in front of 200 to500 people vs. playing in front of 2000 or 3000. And if you want to play college ball, it goes without saying that playing for T or X increases your chances of getting noticed a lot more than playing at, say, Seneca. Just an opinion.

 

I think there are several reasons for their success, none that I see are stronger or better than others. Bottom line is that X & T had a formula that began years ago and none of the other schools have caught up to it. You can blame public vs private, you can blame KHSAA or JCPS, you can blame leprechauns with magic fairies. THe fact is X & T have followed a similar recipe for success and have reaped the rewards of that formula. The same could be said for Highlands, Beechwoord, or any other school that has enjoyed success. I dont think its a private/public thing as much as it is a collection of other reasons.

And unless MANY things change either at the state level or local level, it will stay this way for a LONG time. The state is NOT going to go Public vs. Private in our lifetime. But there are many things JCPS and the state could do to help schools be more competitive. Change eligibility rules, change admission restrictions, etc. Otherwise, it is the hand that has been dealt..play the cards or go home (And no, Im not a supporter of either T or X).

[RowdyRedRam]

Three Reasons:

1) Facilities- X and T are privately funded by successful alumni who can pay for their Division 1 weight rooms, and their luxurious stadiums

2) Population- They both have the largest amount of boys in the largest city in the state and they can pull from anywhere they want, including southern Indiana(where Deuce Finch is from).

3)Coaches- As a recent graduate of St.X, I have encountered the coaches first hand. Most of the coaches there are alumni and their dream job is to coach at St. Xavier High School. They have so much pride in their alma mater and they put more time and effort into their job than a regular coach. They discipline their players to the limit and get everything out of them. Football is the ultimate team game and their coaching makes the players come together better than any other.

Facilities have very little to do with it. It was but a two years ago St X didn't even have a sadium. They may encourage an athelete to go to that school but I think the impact is overstated. A nicer weight set doesn't make you stronger than an old beat up one.

 

To say that X and T coaches put more time and effort in there job than other coaches is merely fluffy propoganda. Coaches put their heart and soul into their work all over the state.

[barrel]

NoBias: The "put more time and effort in then a regular coach" is a little degrading to us "regular" coaches. There are some coaches that put in more time then others but a large majority of us spend an almost unmeasurable amount of time and effort.

 

Coverdale's stint in Evansville is a different story. From my understanding the school he went to was a well know school but was a power running school with that tradition. His style of offense did not seem to go over well so it was a difference of opinions type thing. Think of Coverdale taking over Boone Co. after Hauk retired and you can get the idea to a degree.

 

I know you can go to Beechwood if you pay. I am not sure about Highlands. I know a few people that went to Beechwood and paid to go there so they could play football.

 

Commitment is a large reason for the level of play. Getting kids in public schools to commit to the program the way it is at those schools is huge. It is year round or very close to it. Highlands starts football the week after school is out and practice all summer except the dead period. Word is they use tennis balls to practice the offense. They are running and lifting 5 day a week. I am sure T and X are close.

 

Coaches: T and X have very large coaching staffs. They have more freshman coaches then some 6A schools have football coaches period. The coaches are specialized. I am sure most of the coaches for T and X are not even in the building but have other jobs that allow them to coach. I am not sure what T and X coaches do during the day. In public schools you teach most of the day. In some schools you can get lucky and teach half the day while having an athletic period and such. I would be interested ot know if T and X have athletic periods.

 

Facilities: Weight rooms, trainers, speed work materials, classrooms, endzone and sideline shots for cutups, and the list goes on.

 

Stepped up into the new cent: These coaches stay on top of what is going on in football from the HS level to the pros. I am not sure how many other HS staffs have contact with and visit pro teams. I think one of the reasons for the change in X this year is they partnered up with Darren Slack. New developments, techniques, equipment the whole bit. I think this push or arms race has helped them step even further in front.

 

I do not think T or X has ever won a title because they were athletic. Male I know has. I am not saying T/X are not athletic teams. I think TonyDanza summed up this aspect very well.

[campbellfield]

I have not read the complete thread, sorry if I ask a question which has already came up.

 

My only question is - in Jefferson Co., are students able to attend any public school they wish or do boundaries exist?

[PepRock01]

I have not read the complete thread, sorry if I ask a question which has already came up.

 

My only question is - in Jefferson Co., are students able to attend any public school they wish or do boundaries exist?

 

 

Outside of specific programs, like those at Male and Manual. Any student in Jefferson County can attend any public school in Jefferson County. This system is known as open enrollment.

[campbellfield]

Outside of specific programs, like those at Male and Manual. Any student in Jefferson County can attend any public school in Jefferson County. This system is known as open enrollment.

 

I thought that is what I remember.

 

Do students from surrounding counties pay tuition if they choose to attend a Jefferson Co. public school? This probably doesn't happen often.......

[dawgs83]

Don't be mislead by open enrollment. Schools do not have to accept kids outside of their district through open enrollment. Principals do not like to accept kids through open enrollment unless they have good grades, attendance, and are overall good kids. Once a school accepts a kid through open enrollment that school becomes his or her home school for four years and cannot be removed. Most principals will accept kids on a hardship transfer because if it doesnt work out the transfer can be revoked and that kid would have to return to his home school. Bigger schools in Jeff.Co may accept more openly. Smaller schools in Jeff. Co that worry about their CATS scores will not accept kids just because they are good athletes if they are not good students.

[Bosox1]

I have not read the complete thread, sorry if I ask a question which has already came up.

 

My only question is - in Jefferson Co., are students able to attend any public school they wish or do boundaries exist?

 

Jefferson County Public Schools do have open enrollment so students pretty much can attend the school of their choice...

[RowdyRedRam]

Do students from surrounding counties pay tuition if they choose to attend a Jefferson Co. public school? This probably doesn't happen often.......

Yes.

[RoadRunner]

I thought that is what I remember.

 

Do students from surrounding counties pay tuition if they choose to attend a Jefferson Co. public school? This probably doesn't happen often.......

 

Yes, pretty much like students that don't live in the Corbin Independent School system's district that go to Corbin Schools pay tuition if their school system doesn't have a reciprocal agreement with Corbin.

 

http://policy.ksba.org/c16/

[all pro]

With us it has to be commitment first, followed by support, and lastly winning...it took us sometime to get on top...now that we've been there for about 40 years, it makes the other two much easier.

 

Well said, no matter how each of these two teams got to this point, they are the most exciting two teams in the state. I for one, and many more from lexington just love to watch either team play. Good luck to both!

[thsrocks]

Facilities have very little to do with it.

 

To say that X and T coaches put more time and effort in there job than other coaches is merely fluffy propoganda. Coaches put their heart and soul into their work all over the state.

 

You are somewhat misinformed. Have you ever attended a Coach Beatty run Trinity practice? Ask the players how much time they put in at Dear Old Manual.

 

There is a Trinity player who started out at Manual and left mainly due to the disorganization he experienced within the Crimson program. Trinity and St. Xavier do not have to wait for the next "acivities bus" to carry their players to and from practice. All 109 are resposnible for themselves and their transportation.

 

Do your in house coaches meet with their players daily before school begins to discuss game plans, etc.? How is the time spent within the scheduled practice at Manual? Trinity is in constant motion and has a very scripted practice session.

 

How much work did the Crimsons put in on Saturdays duirng the season?

 

The fact the JCPS forces you to cancel practice when school is out is something you all need to remedy. You lost a whole week of practice due to the wind damage.

[dawgs83]

You are somewhat misinformed. Have you ever attended a Coach Beatty run Trinity practice? Ask the players how much time they put in at Dear Old Manual.

 

There is a Trinity player who started out at Manual and left mainly due to the disorganization he experienced within the Crimson program. Trinity and St. Xavier do not have to wait for the next "acivities bus" to carry their players to and from practice. All 109 are resposnible for themselves and their transportation.

 

Do your in house coaches meet with their players daily before school begins to discuss game plans, etc.? How is the time spent within the scheduled practice at Manual? Trinity is in constant motion and has a very scripted practice session.

 

How much work did the Crimsons put in on Saturdays duirng the season?

 

The fact the JCPS forces you to cancel practice when school is out is something you all need to remedy. You lost a whole week of practice due to the wind damage.

 

I definitely agree that the coaching is better at T & X. My question to this is how many classes do Beatty and Glaser teach. Most public schools coaches have to teach 5 classes. Depending upon your subject and Principal, a class can leagally have up to I believe 30 students. Thats a possible 150 papers to grade. Now granted some principals lighten their loads and give them a duty period usually lunch. Public school coaches technically only get one planning period. A lot of public school coaches dont have assistant coaches teaching in the building. This all adds up to possible disorganization. For example, Fairdale coach Jon Miller has no assistant coaches in the building. he teaches a self-contained class of special needs children all day with last period planning. Some of those planning periods are taken up by IEP meetings with parents.