Why are St. Xavier and Trinity so dominant in Football

[woodsrider]

Coverdale's stint in Evansville is a different story. From my understanding the school he went to was a well know school but was a power running school with that tradition. His style of offense did not seem to go over well so it was a difference of opinions type thing. Think of Coverdale taking over Boone Co. after Hauk retired and you can get the idea to a degree.

 

This is true to a point but it cuts both ways. If Coverdale would have had success running his offense it would have shut people up quickly. The fact is he didn't have the personnel to run that offense at Caslte and probalby never would. They don't have the best and fastest athletes in Evansville. But what they do have is size and that's why the power running game works so well there. When Coverdale switched to a more run oriented offense he had some success.

[woodsrider]

As far as T and X having better coaching, maybe maybe not. Beatty is a great coach but how well does anyone think he would fair at let's say Daviess Co? How about Glaser at Grayson? Any titles coming from either of those with the coaching change? What if you take Jackson from Ballard and gave him Trinity's team? Think he could probalby come up with a few titles.

 

When you get 100+ freshman every year you have the advantage from the start. How many sophmores/juniors/seniors do both programs average? Not to mention both probably have more assitant coaches on their staff then most public schools. This makes a huge difference as well.

[Alabama Larry]

Someone asked me friday nite at the game "how would the X/Rocks head coaches do at a smaller public school in Jefferson County?"

 

Then I was asked about "having separate divisions for the Public/Private schools for the playoffs?"

 

Ny answers....They would have a lot of problems beating the same schools they are losing to now. No change.

 

They have talked about it, and other southern states have it.

 

 

I was really asked these questions.

[rockmom]

Someone asked me friday nite at the game "how would the X/Rocks head coaches do at a smaller public school in Jefferson County?"

 

Then I was asked about "having separate divisions for the Public/Private schools for the playoffs?"

 

Ny answers....They would have a lot of problems beating the same schools they are losing to now. No change.

 

They have talked about it, and other southern states have it.

 

 

I was really asked these questions.

 

You sound surprised.

 

I'm not, though.

[Alabama Larry]

Surprised I was asked these two questions?

 

The person asking was a female whose husband coached at a school who has lost to the Rocks by a total score of 100 something to 15 for two games.

 

Some people hurt when they lose like that.

 

Our conversation wasn't mean spirited, just honest and true.

 

When you are on the losing side year after year you start to wonder if there isn't a better and fair way for everyone.

[rockmom]

Surprised I was asked these two questions?

 

The person asking was a female whose husband coached at a school who has lost to the Rocks by a total score of 100 something to 15 for two games.

 

Some people hurt when they lose like that.

 

Our conversation wasn't mean spirited, just honest and true.

 

When you are on the losing side year after year you start to wonder if there isn't a better and fair way for everyone.

 

Trust, me, I know how they feel. But, when you say better and fair for everyone, that's subjective. First, it's not better or fair for Trinity or X. Second, the inequities are then shifted to the next tier. You have Male and Manual, Ballard's solid. Eastern's becoming solid. PRP can be solid. Then you have teams like Seneca, Southern, etc. It would be the same thing, just a couple of teams always at the top, and the rest battling it out underneath.

 

IMO, this isn't about losing to Trinity & X, as much as it is about thinking that Trinit & X are the reasons for the woes of others. That's not true.

[Alabama Larry]

You make a nice point, I went to Iroquois, I also made a nice point. I had two sons go to Atherton. Male lost to Central. Manual two years in a row.

 

I don't have all the answers, but the numbers don't lie. 1970 preseason we beat the Rocks and I was on the team, we thought we had won the superbowl....1970. We had 90 kids just on the varsity. Things changed a few years later. My wife/her brothers went to Butler...1979...30 years ago.

 

I'll let others respond. I like reading your posts and your character.

[rockmom]

You make a nice point, I went to Iroquois, I also made a nice point. I had two sons go to Atherton. Male lost to Central. Manual two years in a row.

 

I don't have all the answers, but the numbers don't lie. 1970 preseason we beat the Rocks and I was on the team, we thought we had won the superbowl....1970. We had 90 kids just on the varsity. Things changed a few years later. My wife/her brothers went to Butler...1979...30 years ago.

 

I'll let others respond. I like reading your posts and your character.

 

I went to Holy Rosary...I followed DeSales mostly. I remember getting creamed by Moore back in the day, AND Southern. Bishop David was the Southend Catholic rivalry.

 

Doss was formidable as well. But, there's more at work in the decline of the programs AND the schools than can be blamed on either Trinity or X, IMO.

[THEGREENDANDY]

Why do these threads pop up everytime Trinty and St.Xavier play each other?

[barrel]

You are somewhat misinformed. Have you ever attended a Coach Beatty run Trinity practice? Ask the players how much time they put in at Dear Old Manual.

 

There is a Trinity player who started out at Manual and left mainly due to the disorganization he experienced within the Crimson program. Trinity and St. Xavier do not have to wait for the next "acivities bus" to carry their players to and from practice. All 109 are resposnible for themselves and their transportation.

 

Do your in house coaches meet with their players daily before school begins to discuss game plans, etc.? How is the time spent within the scheduled practice at Manual? Trinity is in constant motion and has a very scripted practice session.

 

How much work did the Crimsons put in on Saturdays duirng the season?

 

The fact the JCPS forces you to cancel practice when school is out is something you all need to remedy. You lost a whole week of practice due to the wind damage.

 

Not sure if this was suppose to come across like it did but there is something veyr elitist in the above. I am very happy for Trinity that their students do not have to worry about an "activities bus". Lets look at this a little further outside of JCPS. In more rural areas getting to school for meetings in the morning is not going to happen. This is in part what I refered to with the commitment but it is also a social and economic issue. The fact that position coaches can be there in the morning to talk with players is something that is extremely hard sense some schools have few coaches in the building.

 

How many coaches (freshman through varisty) does T or X have?

Do either have strength and conditioning coaches? I am refering to that is the person's job not a position coach that freelances or double dips.

How many classes do the coaches teach?

Does either school have an athletic period?

Are there "free times" when players can watch film during the day such as during lunch?

Is there a video department takes care of the cutups, filming, and breakdowns? This could be freshman coaches

Do players get to lift during the normal school day?

How many total players from 9-12 are in the program?

Title IX has not effect on T or X correct?

 

 

Now I have heard it before about public schools not making the commitment within their school/school system to get better. If you work in public education right now you know how bad the budget is hurting. I am sure there are hurdles that T and X face that many of us have no clue about. I think often there is an over simplification of the hurdles public schools face though.

[All Tell]

I went to Holy Rosary...I followed DeSales mostly. I remember getting creamed by Moore back in the day, AND Southern. Bishop David was the Southend Catholic rivalry.

 

Doss was formidable as well. But, there's more at work in the decline of the programs AND the schools than can be blamed on either Trinity or X, IMO.

 

I went to Southern.

 

They beat Trinity in 1980 I believe to advance to the state championship game.

 

In '79, '80 and '81 I believe they opened the season with wins over X.

 

While I was in school (74-78) Southern scrimmaged X every year and it was always very competative.

 

The bottom line in my mind is that the public schools have dropped the ball with regards to growing their football programs and now many want/expect the private schools to either "dumb down" to their level or to play in a separate league. There's no way that's right.

[outlawcoach]

1. Program notoriety - success breeds success. People want to be associated with a winner. People are proud to be fans of winning programs.

2. Young kids grow up watching older brothers, cousins and neighbors and want to be part of that same program. They'll work to achieve that goal.

3. Community support, both cash and time and less tangible means

4. Coaching - young players are continually being developed through youth leagues, freshman and JV into good varsity players

5. Numbers - Having big numbers means you'll be more able to find the player to fill a position. More competition for positions pushes players to perform at a higher level.

6. Last but not least, Trinity, St. X, Highlands and others would not have as many titles if there were more parity in the KHSAA. These schools/teams can all compete with the best from Ohio, Tennesseee and other states, but would not win as many titles if they were in Ohio or those other states, becasue there are many more higher caliber teams in other states.

 

What I did not include in this list is facilites and equipment. There are many lesser teams with great facilities and equipment that don't have 1/10th the success. In the case of private schools, the facilites come after the success due to lack of public funding.

 

I agree that T,X, and Highlands would be competetive in other states. I dont know anything about Ohio, but I spent 4 years coaching in Tenn and these 3 schools would be very competetive against the Maryvilles, Alcoas, Fultons and Catholics of Tenn. But then again, the privates have their own league which I had lttle contact with and no knowledge of their strength. I would love to see a Highlands v Maryville game!!

[thsrocks]

Barrell: I hope this helps.

 

How many coaches (freshman through varisty) does T or X have? 17(7 frosh 10 varsity-of which 5 are full time staff members at Trinity.

Do either have strength and conditioning coaches? I am refering to that is the person's job not a position coach that freelances or double dips. Yes, Bob Maddox is the strength coach for all sports at Trinity. He also is a full time teacher. He is at school 6 days a week.

How many classes do the coaches teach? Head coach 1/2 day classes; other five all get one free period in addition to lunch.

Does either school have an athletic period? Not to my knowledge.

 

Are there "free times" when players can watch film during the day such as during lunch? No.

 

Is there a video department takes care of the cutups, filming, and breakdowns? This could be freshman coaches. Trinity hired a videographer this year to monitor the filming of practice, etc. Other younger staff members assist.

Do players get to lift during the normal school day? There are classes offered for weighlifting that count as electives.

How many total players from 9-12 are in the program? Approximately 200(out of 1350)Title IX has not effect on T or X correct? Correct!

 

Private funding paid for new video equipment and videographer as well as the

weight room & stadium. Fortunately, I understand Trinity's atheletic budget operates in the black, mainly due to our annual rival football game with St. Xavier. All "profits" or leftover $$$ is returned to the school's general fund annually.I believe coaches stipends come from this budget. Their teaching salaries do not. Subjects taught by the 5 coaches include English, History, Math, Geography, World Civ, Church History, Health, and P.E.

 

There is no leveling the playing field between rural communities and urban areas. As my boss explained, a former HS QB in Warren County, he had to work the farm between practices.

 

A friend of mine gets to drive an activities bus and is paid a decent amount annually for doing this in the Jefferson County system. Some schools choose not to offer this. So, the local publics start out on an uneven playing field themselves. With open enrollment, would you choose to attend a school that provides transportation or a school that you are responsible for getting yourself to and from? These funds start out from their general budgets, therefore some of my tax dollars are helping certain public schools to have an advantage over some of their counterparts.

 

Trinity has one varsity footballer from from Frankfort and one from Shelbyville. They are responsible for their transportation to and from all activities.

[twilliams1210]

You are somewhat misinformed. Have you ever attended a Coach Beatty run Trinity practice? Ask the players how much time they put in at Dear Old Manual.

 

There is a Trinity player who started out at Manual and left mainly due to the disorganization he experienced within the Crimson program. Trinity and St. Xavier do not have to wait for the next "acivities bus" to carry their players to and from practice. All 109 are resposnible for themselves and their transportation.

 

Do your in house coaches meet with their players daily before school begins to discuss game plans, etc.? How is the time spent within the scheduled practice at Manual? Trinity is in constant motion and has a very scripted practice session.

 

How much work did the Crimsons put in on Saturdays duirng the season?

 

The fact the JCPS forces you to cancel practice when school is out is something you all need to remedy. You lost a whole week of practice due to the wind damage.

 

Speaking of misinformed.... It would be very beneficial to your arguement if your facts were slightly more accurate. I would like to spend the next few minutes giving you the accurate information, so that you may tell the correct Manual story to your disgruntled Buckeye.

 

The only "activities bus" that is involved with the Manual Football Program, is used on Friday's to carry the team to and from games, which if at home are played down the street at the stadium. Unfortunately, for other schools in our region, they must rely on an "activities bus" to transport less fortunate children who do not have a reasonable means for transportation to and from practice.

 

In regards to the dedicational periods prior to school for "gameplanning"; many public schools must rely on paraprofessional coaches who do not have the luxury of participating in these sessions. So since our coaches have inferior abilities, they decide to meet every Sunday evening for upwards of eight hours with the addition to their Saturday afternoon.

 

Speaking of Saturday's....In our thirteen week season our kids spent approximately 39 hours of their "time" on Saturday's at school. This equates to each Saturday morning from 9:00 a.m - noon.

 

The windstorm is an incident that we can not control. However, it would be beneficial to all KHSAA schools to play by the same rules.

 

I can assure you that in the coming off-season our coaches will attempt to discover a way to "work harder". Unfortunately, for us, there are only so many hours in a week and you can't forget about the law of deminishing returns. I would like to say in closing, that I love playing your schools and I do not want to see a split just for that special year when we worked harder.

[Skunk]

Speaking of misinformed.... It would be very beneficial to your arguement if your facts were slightly more accurate. I would like to spend the next few minutes giving you the accurate information, so that you may tell the correct Manual story to your disgruntled Buckeye.

 

The only "activities bus" that is involved with the Manual Football Program, is used on Friday's to carry the team to and from games, which if at home are played down the street at the stadium. Unfortunately, for other schools in our region, they must rely on an "activities bus" to transport less fortunate children who do not have a reasonable means for transportation to and from practice.

 

In regards to the dedicational periods prior to school for "gameplanning"; many public schools must rely on paraprofessional coaches who do not have the luxury of participating in these sessions. So since our coaches have inferior abilities, they decide to meet every Sunday evening for upwards of eight hours with the addition to their Saturday afternoon.

 

Speaking of Saturday's....In our thirteen week season our kids spent approximately 39 hours of their "time" on Saturday's at school. This equates to each Saturday morning from 9:00 a.m - noon.

 

The windstorm is an incident that we can not control. However, it would be beneficial to all KHSAA schools to play by the same rules.

 

I can assure you that in the coming off-season our coaches will attempt to discover a way to "work harder". Unfortunately, for us, there are only so many hours in a week and you can't forget about the law of deminishing returns. I would like to say in closing, that I love playing your schools and I do not want to see a split just for that special year when we worked harder.

 

:thumb: Nice reply