Unity of Coaches

[Under the Lights]

 

I have seen some coaches get onto kids because they went on a family vacation during the summer and missed something. I have seen a basketball coach get onto their kids because they went to a summer baseball game instead of coming to open gym PRACTICE.

 

When a coach won't let a kid miss practice to actually participate in a game of another sport is ridiculous. You can still teach a kid about hard work and dedication if they play more than one sport and that is through being part of the school team concept. Also, you can teach them much more about scheduling time, talking to adults about scheduling time and other things like that.

 

There is no reason to get on here and say that this sport is at fault because they all are and I am a huge baseball guy (literally and figuratively). Let's remember these are kids and they will probably never play college sports - let them enjoy being young.

 

I think by and large, if you investigated the matter most of the time you'd find that the coach was never informed by the player that he was going to miss. Coaches pass out schedules at the beginning of June for the entire summer, the least the player can do is to bring to the coach's attention that he may have a conflict. I was always told that there is a time and place for family vacations, and that is before the dead period. All our coach ever asked was that we not take vacations or miss after the dead period was over. Right or wrong he would say this, "If your going to miss, and it comes down to a decision between you and another guy of comparable talent, I'm going to have to choose the other guy. I can't not reward a guy who is here working his tail off every day." For the record, I see nothing unreasonable about asking kids to not miss once the dead period has ended.

 

I played several sports in HS (way back then), and I'd have had my tail end up between my ears if my father learned I had made a committment to a team and backed out of it.

[TigerFan2709]

Under the Lights that is a good point that the kid probably didn't tell the coach and I wish I would have put that in my original post. That comes back on the parent being at fault for not teaching the kid something about responsibility. Or sitting down with the kid and saying that this is a full schedule and you need to work this out. Parents fault completely.

 

What if the parent(s) cannot take vacation until after the dead period? Then you are punishing a family for having a certain job. Where is the fairness in that?

 

Now if little Johnny shows up for everything and works harder than little Ricky that is fine. Johnny should be given the first CHANCE at the position when the season starts. But if Ricky is better then you might want to play him instead. That's one reason for scrimmages - to reward the kids who are not very good that show up all the time. Let them get their start.

 

I guess you can say I am contradicting my originial point about this being high school verus college / pro but it's still valid. No matter the level you put your best out there at game time.

[Under the Lights]

Under the Lights that is a good point that the kid probably didn't tell the coach and I wish I would have put that in my original post. That comes back on the parent being at fault for not teaching the kid something about responsibility. Or sitting down with the kid and saying that this is a full schedule and you need to work this out. Parents fault completely.

 

What if the parent(s) cannot take vacation until after the dead period? Then you are punishing a family for having a certain job. Where is the fairness in that?

 

Now if little Johnny shows up for everything and works harder than little Ricky that is fine. Johnny should be given the first CHANCE at the position when the season starts. But if Ricky is better then you might want to play him instead. That's one reason for scrimmages - to reward the kids who are not very good that show up all the time. Let them get their start.

 

I guess you can say I am contradicting my originial point about this being high school verus college / pro but it's still valid. No matter the level you put your best out there at game time.

 

I disagree with the bolded part. I have witnessed many HS players who were definately among the best 11 talent wise. But they couldn't be trusted with responsibility. The responsibility of blocking the right man, running the right route, showing up on time, showing up at all, doing the right things in ALL phases of their lives.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I'd be willing to lose my job playing a kid that wasn't as talented but did all the right things than for a kid that can't handle his responsibilities. The best 11 aren't always the RIGHT 11.

[Under the Lights]

And as far as vacations after the dead period, where there is a will, there is a way. My family went on vacation during 2 a days (back when they still had them). I chose to stay with a friend (no way my parents would have left me by myself at 15) and miss the vacation. I knew if I missed that it would hurt my team from a preparation standpoint and I didn't want to let those guys down. My family understood......some I would imagine aren't so lucky.

[TigerFan2709]

Once again I agree with the part about the best guy might be an airhead / head case who can't do anything and shouldn't play. I was going from the assumption that the best player would do what you want him to do.

 

Play the guy who gives you the best chance of winning and doing what you are supposed to do on the field / court. Even if he has had to miss because of another sport.

 

If the guy has sat on the couch all summer and blew off stuff then don't play him. He hasn't earned anything. If a kid is playing a sport and has to miss A LITTLE (not saying he can get away with missing everything or a lot of it) then don't hold it against this kid.

 

As for the vacation part there are so many variables it's to hard to say this is right. I would have done the same thing as you - stay with someone so I could play / practice. In fact my family stopped going on vacation because of me playing sports. But that was a choice my family made.

 

Some families won't make the choice - the kid is being punished for their parents. I can't see that being fair.

 

With divorce happening at an alarming rate what if just after the dead period is the only time a kid can see their other parent who lives in another state? This kid might miss a week at most. Do you hold it against them for seeing a loved one they haven't seen in months?

 

Something like this happens the kid has to tell the coach - "hey I have to go on vacation / see my parent on this week and I won't be able to make practice". Then the coach is well within his / her right to say "well have a good time but when you come back little Johnny may be ahead of you on the depth chart because he is going to be here. You will have a chance to win it back when you return though".

 

Those few words solve the problems but some coaches are not willing to do that. That is what creates the problems.

[Sandman32]

The sad thing in all this to me is that we have to regulate this at all.

 

If a kid is good enough to play on a traveling team, start on a football field, and play the point on the court, all the coaches from each of the respective sports should be good with that. As this type of athlete is the exception and not the rule, All of the coaches should be encouraging, nurturing and or developing this player as they are obviously an above average athlete. But instead one or more of the coaches involved has decided to be selfish.

 

To be honest, I could care less about restricting one sport over the other but as a parent I have often thought that kids need more time off during the summer to be kids. I do believe that coaches and parents get so wrapped up in themselves that they forget that they are dealing with 14,15,16, and 17 year old kids for the most part. The dead period should be expanded IMO from the middle of june till the middle of July. Now I know what your thinking, every unregualted Baseball AAU program in the country would play 30 games over that period if you did this, well that might be true, but that is also where I as a parent say.... no thank you.

[Maroon Fan]

I feel that if the athlete thinks he is good enough to warrant a scholarship look (any sport) or for baseball a minor league deal, then that is a choice that the athlete and his parents need to make. The problem I see isn't how much time the KHSAA allows for one sport or the other, it should regulate the over-zealous coach who is telling these athletes that if they do not attend every session in and out-of-season then their playing time would be impacted. I had conversation yesterday and my stance is and has always been, your best athletes should represent your school in every sport possible, not just the ones they participated in the off season work outs for.

[stickymitts]

The sad thing in all this to me is that we have to regulate this at all.

 

If a kid is good enough to play on a traveling team, start on a football field, and play the point on the court, all the coaches from each of the respective sports should be good with that. As this type of athlete is the exception and not the rule, All of the coaches should be encouraging, nurturing and or developing this player as they are obviously an above average athlete. But instead one or more of the coaches involved has decided to be selfish.

 

To be honest, I could care less about restricting one sport over the other but as a parent I have often thought that kids need more time off during the summer to be kids. I do believe that coaches and parents get so wrapped up in themselves that they forget that they are dealing with 14,15,16, and 17 year old kids for the most part. The dead period should be expanded IMO from the middle of june till the middle of July. Now I know what your thinking, every unregualted Baseball AAU program in the country would play 30 games over that period if you did this, well that might be true, but that is also where I as a parent say.... no thank you.

 

I agree, just as long as a parent doesn't continue to pressure their kid and coach to get them a college scholarship in their respective sport. As to your last sentence, they can say that without a month long dead period...

[stickymitts]

Huge deal in OH. Growing rapidly in NKY.

 

You're playing two days a week, one of which is Sunday. And honestly, baseball kids are the only ones in NKY playing fall ball. Anyone that's even on the fence is still playing football...

[inorout]

If a kid wants to play football and baseball, why can't he? My 2nd best offensive threat is a great baseball player and he was playing on a traveling team in late July and early August. I got him full time about 4 days before our first scrimmage. He's a great player, all the other kids on the team knew he was playing for his traveling baseball team and wanted him out there as soon as possible. Coaches need to let the kids play, stop worrying about great kids that try and play multiple sports that overlap. Football Championships are won in November and December, not July and August. Basketball Championships are won in March, not November and December. These athletes do not disrupt your team, if done correctly they improve your team.

[Hearsay]

Not one of you fine, educated people has mentioned yet that the cause of all of this has been the advent of the trendy use of year-round school in many areas, and the starting of school generally in early August. This is actually a political issue tied heavily to the state teacher's lobby and should probably be in the P&R Forum. However, I thank Phillip Hay for raising it.

 

You will not find a bigger footbally fan on here than me, but Baseball is a summer sport. Always has been. That is why books were written about "The Boys of Summer," teams playing in the "Dog Days of Summer," and old men sitting on their front porch sipping lemonade in the hot summer sun listening to the Cardinals on their transistor radios. Baseball has also always been the least school-related of the Big 3 sports, meaning that the route to the pros from baseball often comes straight from Legion or AAU leagues rather than high schools, and kids bypass college altogether about 40% of the time. Not so with basketball and football.

 

Therefore, Strike is 100% correct when he says that the summer baseball leagues are crucial for any ballplayer, not just in continued development but in the natural desire to progress towards pro ball.

 

I have no use for Fall baseball. The old Winter leagues in Fla., Ca., Tx., the Caribbean and South America have generally chosen the players for their teams and signed them to contracts by Aug.-Sept., so there is no need for a high school aged player to be playing in August.

 

August is the month for football prep. Two-a-day practices should start in early August, and scrimmages held in late August. I don't know why we have 3-4 scrimmages in football. 2 scrimmages really is sufficient. The season starts in September, and should coincide with the start of school.

 

I have no trouble, however, making a kid choose. Football and baseball training is almost mutually exclusive. The weight training for football works muscle-groups at mass levels that make it difficult to transition to baseball. If you are a lineman, LB, TE, safety, or RB, your training regimen is not conducive to baseball, in general. If you are a QB, then your position is so important I think you need to choose football and your football team over baseball and your baseball team. If you are a WR or DB, then you have a choice to make.

 

A lot of this could be cured if we politically re-examined why we went to start school in august in the first place, and the decision therein rests squarely with the state teacher's lobby. Cure the politics, and a lot of the upheavel in sports will settle back to earth.

[leatherneck]

We disagree, on your comment about Baseball keeping kids off the Football field. If you feel that way, then perhaps you just validated my point, about Football cutting into summer programs. Youth leagues and other programs exist in the summer, so not to compete with HS sports.

 

I do make sure he gets seen but when HS and College coaches are practicing/playing at the same time, often visual observation is limited. That is why many have summer and fall camps, to better evaluate talent.

 

Football is often mandatory, which cause the dilemma for student-athletes to choose. If a player wants to play summer sports, a traveling team but is a member of the Football team, he will have to choose which to participate in, if a time conflict arises. Those that don't play both Baseball and Football, will not see the problem which results.

 

You let any school start a 10 days of Baseball practice during Football, see the chaos and animosity that would follow.

 

Applying the bolded logic, how then do college football programs scout high school football players, as college football is practicing/playing at the same time as high school football?

 

Bottom line: the college baseball coaches will find a way to scout high school baseball players even if both levels are playing/practicing at the same time.

[westsider]

Applying the bolded logic, how then do college football programs scout high school football players, as college football is practicing/playing at the same time as high school football?

The wonders of videotape ...

 

And some coaches can make Friday night games ...

[stickymitts]

Applying the bolded logic, how then do college football programs scout high school football players, as college football is practicing/playing at the same time as high school football?

 

Bottom line: the college baseball coaches will find a way to scout high school baseball players even if both levels are playing/practicing at the same time.

 

That's in part of Tigers post. For example, UK's coaching staff consists of the head coach, the third base coach/recruiting coordinator, the pitching coach and the first base coach who is a "volunteer". They all need to be at all games and practices. The difference is in the staff size. On top of that, the NCAA took away baseball's ability to have GA's, who could do some advanced scouting.

 

That would be the equivalent of a head football coach, offensive and defensive coordinator and QB coach. I find it hard to believe that one of them would leave in the middle of a game week to scout a kid.

[STRIKE3]

Applying the bolded logic, how then do college football programs scout high school football players, as college football is practicing/playing at the same time as high school football?

 

Bottom line: the college baseball coaches will find a way to scout high school baseball players even if both levels are playing/practicing at the same time.

Football budgets, often include recruiting $$$ allowances, plus have considerable more staff. Camps, videos, initial contact, attending practices do happen but not even comparable to Baseball, in expense.

 

At the same time, I've emphasized "Youth Programs", which aren't all HS sponsored. There are entirely too many to name but some enjoy, look forward to and excel in participating in these.

 

Colleges will find that player, that fits "their level of play"....but what about that D3, NAIA or marginal player, who doesn't live within 30-35 minutes from a D1 program in KY and may be better suited for that OH program. How do they find the budget and time, to travel down. They are often seen, in Summer games which is my point of contention, to not make kids choose....do I or don't I.