Unity of Coaches

[bulldog77]

Sorry, I misinterpreted what was being said. I thought it was implied that the coach was coaching a summer team that consisted of his HS players.

 

That is what was being said. Most of the higher profile big-school teams around the state keep their teams intact all summer as either AAu or Legion or USSSA teams.. They cannot wear school uniforms, use school equipment, and must pay the going rate to rent the facilities. Aside form those basic restrictions, and observance of the dead period, they can coach their teams.

[stickymitts]

What I do know is that the Ft. Thomas Junior Baseball League is suffering big time in participation and it has nothing to do with the Junior Football League (as football doesn't even begin to get rolling way until the baseball season is over in Ft. Thomas)

 

Off the subject, but that's because the league is abysmal. As to your point :thumb:, Jr. football really has zero affect on Jr. baseball in Ft. Thomas...

 

However, the serious baseball players in high school, are affected. Heck, I missed the first week of two-a-days every year and that was ok. How things have changed...

[racbass]

I love football and my kid would rather play football than eat I think. The reality is this. I've seen 100's of college coaches at the select baseball world series and bigger tournaments. I've only seen a few at high school baseball games. And only then to see a player or players that have already been noticed at the select levels in summer baseball. It not fair to the under classmen to make a decision on which sport to play at that age. And in today's world there are far to many HS kids making those decisions based on their understanding that if they do not participate in the off season programs, they will not play.

[94 Camel]

Off the subject, but that's because the league is abysmal. As to your point :thumb:, Jr. football really has zero affect on Jr. baseball in Ft. Thomas...

 

However, the serious baseball players in high school, are affected. Heck, I missed the first week of two-a-days every year and that was ok. How things have changed...

 

I have been around those special misses before. I understand wanting to play on a traveling team. However, is it fair that one kid should be allowed to miss for baseball when practice is mandatory. Why shouldn't another get to miss for vacation? Or another miss a week to work? The reasons become endless. Your expectations must be there for everyone, or not exist at all IMO.

[stickymitts]

I have been around those special misses before. I understand wanting to play on a traveling team. However, is it fair that one kid should be allowed to miss for baseball when practice is mandatory. Why shouldn't another get to miss for vacation? Or another miss a week to work? The reasons become endless. Your expectations must be there for everyone, or not exist at all IMO.

 

So, you wouldn't have let a Cory Farris play because he missed the first week of practice, knowing his future is in baseball but he loves football and would help your team tremendously?

[94 Camel]

So, you wouldn't have let a Cory Farris play because he missed the first week of practice, knowing his future is in baseball but he loves football and would help your team tremendously?

 

Thats the problem. I would have to and should under current conditions. The problem is, if I am on his team, I am Upset in the least that my tailback is missing a week of doubles. Other kids parents sometimes feel the same way. Why can't my kid miss to see his girlfriend when your superstar gets to miss to go play baseball? These are the kinds of rifts that it creates, especially when you are trying to establish accountability in a program that doesn't already have it. When I was in high school, my head coach didn't allow doubles to be missed for baseball for this reason.

[stickymitts]

Thats the problem. I would have to and should under current conditions. The problem is, if I am on his team, I am Upset in the least that my tailback is missing a week of doubles. Other kids parents sometimes feel the same way. Why can't my kid miss to see his girlfriend when your superstar gets to miss to go play baseball? These are the kinds of rifts that it creates, especially when you are trying to establish accountability in a program that doesn't already have it. When I was in high school, my head coach didn't allow doubles to be missed for baseball for this reason.

 

Shirley you don't expect to make everyone happy...

 

As long as it's communicated extremely early and everyone else realizes that this is not a democracy, there's nothing else you can do. If a kid comes in baseball season and says he needs to go to a football camp that is going to have 70 college coaches there, I don't care if he misses a game. By all means, GO!!!

 

In essence, the summer leagues that HS kids are playing in, that go that deep into the summer, is one big college showcase. College coaches can't get to high school games and if they could, they probably wouldn't go anyway. The level of talent is SOOOO much greater in summer baseball that it's easier to gauge if a kid can actually play. A kid hits .400 in high school ball, that's a good season. If he does in the SWOL, that's phenomenal.

 

But, I'm guessing since you're a football meathead and I'm a baseball meathead, we're probably not going to agree...

[STRIKE3]

If a kid comes in baseball season and says he needs to go to a football camp that is going to have 70 college coaches there, I don't care if he misses a game. By all means, GO!!!

Agreed and been in that situation, several times and encouraged them to go.

 

In essence, the summer leagues that HS kids are playing in, that go that deep into the summer, is one big college showcase. College coaches can't get to high school games and if they could, they probably wouldn't go anyway.

Agreed and I met "new" 12 different Colleges coaches, in the last 2 weekends at games.

[leatherneck]

Off the subject, but that's because the league is abysmal. As to your point :thumb:, Jr. football really has zero affect on Jr. baseball in Ft. Thomas...

 

However, the serious baseball players in high school, are affected. Heck, I missed the first week of two-a-days every year and that was ok. How things have changed...

 

 

I'm not sure its changed as much as you and some others make it. I really don't think Dale holds missing football practice for baseball against any player. Hamblen I recall missed almost every two a day for baseball, yet started at receiver and db the first game. Just this year, Drew Simons missed several two a days (heck, it may have been an entire week) due to playing in a couple of basketball tournaments in Vegas and Florida. That sure hasn't affected his playing time, has it? Dale's philosophy as I understand it is a simple one: he's going to field his best players, period. And if his best players missed some practices for legitimate reasons (i.e. to play summer baseball), he's not going to penalize them, or the team, for it.

 

I know, I know, Drew and Brett were exceptional athletes, you argue, so Dale wouldn't hold it against them but he'd hold it against the non exceptional athlete. I totally disagree. If a non exceptional football player can miss all of two a days to play baseball, yet still be the best player at his football position, Dale will play him. The question becomes, can the non exceptional athlete still be the best at his football position when he misses two a days? At some schools, yes. At schools like Highlands, probably not because the competition for starting positions is so intense. As good of an athlete that Brandon Roller is, I don't think he'd be seeing near the varsity minutes he is if he had played spring and summer baseball and not fully participated in spring football and summer practices and conditioning (in fairness, Brandon did play some summer baseball, but I don't recall him missing many if any summer football sessions) because the competion for the positions he plays is very deep and intense. Brandon may very well decide to play baseball for Highlands this spring and Dale will probably encourage him to do so. But my guess is that Dale will also probably tell him that if come the first football game, another player in Brandon's position is better than him because the other kid played spring football, then Dale's going to start the other player. Frankly, I would be totally disappointed in Dale if he took any other stance.

 

Because the time and effort committment involved in Highlands football, it is only fair to all those other kids that made that committment, for Dale to play the best players. If a kid misses summer workouts and two a days because he's playing baseball, and that results in another player being better than him, Dale owes it to his team to play the better football player. To some, that looks as if Dale is holding it against the kid that played summer baseball. To me however, that looks like Dale is doing everything he can to win state in football and he owes that to every kid on the football team. And I'd support that line of thinking from the head baseball coach and the head basketball coach at Highlands.

 

Which, to reopen a past debate, is why I think the baseball spring break policy, is wrong. If a kid can miss a week of baseball practice to spend time with his family in Florida, and still be the best outfielder or the best pitcher, the head baseball coach by throwing the kid off the team is cheating the program and every kid on that team of having the best opportunity to win baseball games. And yes, before you even ask the question, I do not think that Dale would throw a kid off the football team if he took a week off of two a days, or for that matter at any point of the season, to go on a family vacation. The kid may not start if someone became a better football player because the other kid, by attending that week of practice, became better. But there is no way that Dale would throw a kid off the team for spending time with his family on a vacation. For all Dale's talk of the value of the family, he'd be a hypocrit if he threw a kid off a team for spending time with his family.

 

Back to your comment about the Jr. Baseball League, why do you think its abysmal? I think its because more and more kids don't want to play baseball, rather they want to play soccer. As a result, their parents have become much more involved in soccer leagues. As a further result, the soccer leagues aren't abysmal; rather they've become very strong. The baseball league is abysmal because there aren't many kids that want to play the sport; they want to play soccer.

[stickymitts]

I'm not sure its changed as much as you and some others make it. I really don't think Dale holds missing football practice for baseball against any player. Hamblen I recall missed almost every two a day for baseball, yet started at receiver and db the first game. Just this year, Drew Simons missed several two a days (heck, it may have been an entire week) due to playing in a couple of basketball tournaments in Vegas and Florida. That sure hasn't affected his playing time, has it? Dale's philosophy as I understand it is a simple one: he's going to field his best players, period. And if his best players missed some practices for legitimate reasons (i.e. to play summer baseball), he's not going to penalize them, or the team, for it.

 

I know, I know, Drew and Brett were exceptional athletes, you argue, so Dale wouldn't hold it against them but he'd hold it against the non exceptional athlete. I totally disagree. If a non exceptional football player can miss all of two a days to play baseball, yet still be the best player at his football position, Dale will play him. The question becomes, can the non exceptional athlete still be the best at his football position when he misses two a days? At some schools, yes. At schools like Highlands, probably not because the competition for starting positions is so intense. As good of an athlete that Brandon Roller is, I don't think he'd be seeing near the varsity minutes he is if he had played spring and summer baseball and not fully participated in spring football and summer practices and conditioning (in fairness, Brandon did play some summer baseball, but I don't recall him missing many if any summer football sessions) because the competion for the positions he plays is very deep and intense. Brandon may very well decide to play baseball for Highlands this spring and Dale will probably encourage him to do so. But my guess is that Dale will also probably tell him that if come the first football game, another player in Brandon's position is better than him because the other kid played spring football, then Dale's going to start the other player. Frankly, I would be totally disappointed in Dale if he took any other stance.

 

Because the time and effort committment involved in Highlands football, it is only fair to all those other kids that made that committment, for Dale to play the best players. If a kid misses summer workouts and two a days because he's playing baseball, and that results in another player being better than him, Dale owes it to his team to play the better football player. To some, that looks as if Dale is holding it against the kid that played summer baseball. To me however, that looks like Dale is doing everything he can to win state in football and he owes that to every kid on the football team. And I'd support that line of thinking from the head baseball coach and the head basketball coach at Highlands.

 

Which, to reopen a past debate, is why I think the baseball spring break policy, is wrong. If a kid can miss a week of baseball practice to spend time with his family in Florida, and still be the best outfielder or the best pitcher, the head baseball coach by throwing the kid off the team is cheating the program and every kid on that team of having the best opportunity to win baseball games. And yes, before you even ask the question, I do not think that Dale would throw a kid off the football team if he took a week off of two a days, or for that matter at any point of the season, to go on a family vacation. The kid may not start if someone became a better football player because the other kid, by attending that week of practice, became better. But there is no way that Dale would throw a kid off the team for spending time with his family on a vacation. For all Dale's talk of the value of the family, he'd be a hypocrit if he threw a kid off a team for spending time with his family.

 

Back to your comment about the Jr. Baseball League, why do you think its abysmal? I think its because more and more kids don't want to play baseball, rather they want to play soccer. As a result, their parents have become much more involved in soccer leagues. As a further result, the soccer leagues aren't abysmal; rather they've become very strong. The baseball league is abysmal because there aren't many kids that want to play the sport; they want to play soccer.

 

I know and agree with your stance on the way Dale handles kids that miss for other sports. I was one of them. However you even stated, if Roller would've missed spring football and summer workouts he may not have had a chance to make the impact he's making. That was never a problem when we played, hence the change. There wasn't spring football and very few people quit other sports to focus on one. I really didn't start seeing that until Jared and Derek's junior years. Also, in fairness to the other kids, Roller played knothole which is the Southwest Ohio League's little sister. No offense to Roller because he could excel in any league he wanted to...

 

There's not enough time for the spring break issue. It just amazes me that Ft. Thomas is the only school district on the planet that thinks the world stops during spring break. Meanwhile, the serious baseball schools are playing and getting better, winning district, regional and state titles. My thought was that the city was tired of being a mediocre, at best, baseball school. Let's look at it this way. They want concessions for spring break, spring football, prom, ACT days, graduation...etc. None of which any other sport has to endure, minus ACT days. On top of that, you can only play baseball when the conditions allow so missing one or two days in the sun and on a dry field IS a big deal. If the kids would rather play on a beach that will be there forever and not play baseball, it's really a non-issue. They aren't baseball players.

 

Soccer hasn't affected FTJBL as much as better, more competitive leagues has. Explain how more than 50% of district 22 knothole, based in Newport is made up of Ft. Thomas kids and Ft. Thomas teams? Interest is not down, people just want a more competitive league. They've emphasized that they want 'instruction' and not 'competition' which is fine, if they want to continue to hunt for kids and ample coaches every year. Knothole is average at best baseball, most of the high school kids are in SWOL (AABC). It's the equivalent to AAU basketball...

 

Not sure if this is on topic or not but I had to respond...

[Sandman32]

Yes they can coach summer teams, until school starts again and excluding the current Dead Period.

 

There are certain uniform, equipment and expense requirements to be met, per KHSAA ByLaws, but they can coach.

 

Can anyone else imagine the local football coaches starting a team and league outside of the normal HS team season and playing games during the winter, spring, or summer? It would be strictly voluntary/manditory for the kids of course.:rolleyes: Why is this even remotely possible with baseball?

 

The entire baseball AAU/recruiting situation stinks. The NCAA and the NFHS need to fix this. Football uses tape to recruit, Basketball uses tape to recruit, why can't Baseball use tape too?

 

Please, don't tell me how it's done presently. I get it. I'm just telling you it is wrong. In the eighth grade, my son played on a "private" AAU/AABC team over the summer for approximately 80 games. To make it better it was a traveling team, one that Strike3 eluded to. Average drive was an hour, some up to three. As a freshman he then played on the local freshman HS football team, then straight to the Freshman HS basketball team, then straight to the freshman HS baseball team, then straight to a "privately run" AAU/AABC baseball team for an additional 60 to 80 games over the summer, then straight into Varsity football, then straight into Varsity basketball, then straight into Varsity HS baseball. As a sophomore entering his junior year to repeat the cycle I could tell he felt trapped going into the summer baseball, so I refused to let him play baseball that summer. By the time HS baseball rolled around the next year he quit the sport all together.

 

These are kids, not machines. Outside of the dead period, how many days off do you think the multi-sport athletes kids get in a year. I firmly believe that all coaches no matter what their sport is, if left to their own devices would over do it when it comes to time requirements of the kids, some already do IMO.

[stickymitts]

Can anyone else imagine the local football coaches starting a team and league outside of the normal HS team season and playing games during the winter, spring, or summer? It would be strictly voluntary/manditory for the kids of course.:rolleyes: Why is this even remotely possible with baseball?

 

The entire baseball AAU/recruiting situation stinks. The NCAA and the NFHS need to fix this. Football uses tape to recruit, Basketball uses tape to recruit, why can't Baseball use tape too?

 

Please, don't tell me how it's done presently. I get it. I'm just telling you it is wrong. In the eighth grade, my son played on a "private" AAU/AABC team over the summer for approximately 80 games. To make it better it was a traveling team, one that Strike3 eluded to. Average drive was an hour, some up to three. As a freshman he then played on the local freshman HS football team, then straight to the Freshman HS basketball team, then straight to the freshman HS baseball team, then straight to a "privately run" AAU/AABC baseball team for an additional 60 to 80 games over the summer, then straight into Varsity football, then straight into Varsity basketball, then straight into Varsity HS baseball. As a sophomore entering his junior year to repeat the cycle I could tell he felt trapped going into the summer baseball, so I refused to let him play baseball that summer. By the time HS baseball rolled around the next year he quit the sport all together.

 

These are kids, not machines. Outside of the dead period, how many days off do you think the multi-sport athletes kids get in a year. I firmly believe that all coaches no matter what their sport is, if left to their own devices would over do it when it comes to time requirements of the kids, some already do IMO.

 

 

I haven't seen entire summer teams made up from one particular high school since the late 90's. All of the high school coaches that have summer teams have a couple of kids from their school team with a bunch of kids from other schools.

 

You make it sound like high school baseball coaches are coaching their entire high school team from Feb 15th to August 1st. That's not even close. Of the coaches I know, Walt Terrell, Rob Sanders and Bob Myerhoff, not one of them keeps only their kids.

 

On the contrary, I'm sure you, being a "football guy" and all, have no problem with the option of football practice being conducted in the middle of baseball season...

[Sandman32]

I haven't seen entire summer teams made up from one particular high school since the late 90's. All of the high school coaches that have summer teams have a couple of kids from their school team with a bunch of kids from other schools.

 

You make it sound like high school baseball coaches are coaching their entire high school team from Feb 15th to August 1st. That's not even close. Of the coaches I know, Walt Terrell, Rob Sanders and Bob Myerhoff, not one of them keeps only their kids.

 

On the contrary, I'm sure you, being a "football guy" and all, have no problem with the option of football practice being conducted in the middle of baseball season...

 

We don't do spring football at Dixie, for those of you that do, good for you. Personally I don't like it believe it or not. The baseball team my kid was on in the eighth/ninth grade was predominately Dixie kids though you are correct there were quite a few from other schools. It was not coached by our or any other HS coach. But the gentleman in charge did talk to our HS coach on a first name basis and often.

 

I am not condemning anyone sport in particular, but merely pointing out that IF a kid wishes to play multiple sports I can easily see why they would become overwhelmed. My sons both quit baseball and basketball in high school because they both excelled and loved football the most. My oldest continued to play knothole with his friends just for fun and won the city championship his senior year. The oldest son did not play basketball in HS.

 

I can see where a kid like my nephew who was the starting quarterback for the freshman football team would make the opposite choice and not play football his sophmore and now junior year because he also plays JV and Varsity (near the end of the year) baseball and had been asked to play in the summer leagues again.

 

Combined, All of the demands on the kids time are enormous IMO and rarely does the coach of an individual sport stop and take a look at it.

[STRIKE3]

We don't do spring football at Dixie, for those of you that do, good for you. Personally I don't like it believe it or not. The baseball team my kid was on in the eighth/ninth grade was predominately Dixie kids though you are correct there were quite a few from other schools. It was not coached by our or any other HS coach. But the gentleman in charge did talk to our HS coach on a first name basis and often.

 

I am not condemning anyone sport in particular, but merely pointing out that IF a kid wishes to play multiple sports I can easily see why they would become overwhelmed. My sons both quit baseball and basketball in high school because they both excelled and loved football the most. My oldest continued to play knothole with his friends just for fun and won the city championship his senior year. The oldest son did not play basketball in HS.

 

I can see where a kid like my nephew who was the starting quarterback for the freshman football team would make the opposite choice and not play football his sophomore and now junior year because he also plays JV and Varsity (near the end of the year) baseball and had been asked to play in the summer leagues again.

Summer programs in Baseball, are done to not conflict with HS seasons, thus the time frame.

 

Football has camps in the summer, along with Baseball and Basketball, probably has even more opportunities than all, with all the options. Structuring a HS program, during summer will make most choose and said/not said, most student-athletes will tell you, "some" coaches will encourage participation in theirs and not the summer programs.

 

As for recruiting via tape, it's an aspect that is done. I send out many DVD's, of baseball players to coaches....NONE, in either sport will sign you, unless your the cream of the crop, without seeing you in person or at a camp.

 

Where does that leave the 5'-10", 145lb middle infielder, who can play D3 or NAIA, but must go out of state....who ever hears or gets to see him.

[shooter]

Sir, Basketball and Baseball can be played without practicing much easier than Football, that's what I said and it's the truth. You see a lot of kids playing those sports on their own because you don't have to practice it as much. I agree practice is important for those sports don't get me wrong but as far as preparation and practice there is no comparing the three sports. I believe many people will agree with that. You are entitled to your own opinion but come on you can't just show up and play football like you could basketball and baseball. :creepy:

 

 

I couldn't disagree more. The more a skill does not come naturally, the more practice that is required to master it. You must practice if you expect to be successful hitting a baseball. I know plenty of kids who were successful football players who never played until they were in highschool. I couldn't name a single kid who never picked up a bat before highschool who even made the team.