I don't understand the logic behind this rocket science??

[The Golfer]

Because in high school it is about the kids and their experience. This is not the same at the other levels. Why would anyone in their right mind turn away a kid that wanted to play football? IMO football is a great character building sport. The reasons in basketball are because you can't fit 60 kids on the side of the court. Also only 5 play at a time...

 

If you believe this. You should have the same rules for track, golf, soccer, cross country and any other outdoor sport. It's for the experience and their is plenty of room.

[02Ram54]

If you believe this. You should have the same rules for track, golf, soccer, cross country and any other outdoor sport. It's for the experience and their is plenty of room.

There are time/space constraints for golf, CC and track, as they're semi individual sports. What's the dress limit for soccer?

 

 

I would imagine that ONE big reason there's no dress limit in football is that there's an infinite number of substitution opportunities. You CAN play 100 kids, and it not be silly.

[HailToTheChief]

There are time/space constraints for golf, CC and track, as they're semi individual sports. What's the dress limit for soccer?

 

 

I would imagine that ONE big reason there's no dress limit in football is that there's an infinite number of substitution opportunities. You CAN play 100 kids, and it not be silly.

:thumb:

[campbellfield]

Except in Basketball if you get one player like a Chris Lofton and some average players around him then any school in the state can win the state title.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but when small schools have a player like Lofton the kid normally will end up at a larger school or a private school.

 

I have always been against clasification of basketball uo until the last couple years.

[westsider]

I understand the economics involved but I thought the extra football classes were based on principle.

It depends on which system we're talking about.

 

Four classes? Personally, I'm fine with it.

 

The six-class plan, in my view, has nothingto do with principle. It has much more to do with selfishness, the desire to ease the pressures on coaches and the misguided notion that more classes and "more exposure" will help get kids scholarships to play college football.

 

Bottom line ... football and basketball are not comparable sports. The dynamics are so different. Football is so much more numbers-intensive and dependent on team play. Basketball is a team sport, but one individual can have much more of an impact on the court than he can on the football field.

 

I like the basketball setup just the way it is. Small schools get two chances to make a splash on the statewide scene, and everyone still shoots for the same prize at the end.

[HailToTheChief]

Personally I think the basketball in KY needs classes as well but I am realistic enough to know that this won't happen because of the money and fan support that the Sweet 16 generates. Fans seem to love the sweet 16, although the reality of it is that the teams don't have an equal shot because of the number of kids in the schools.

 

As far as the 6 classes in football, I think it would be hard to set up with geographic boundaries. The travel time is pretty hefty as it is. If the teams were split up even more then they would increase travel times by quite a bit.

[onetoya]

Guys,

 

Football is a TOTALLY different animal than basketball. Very good football teams, with big numbers, will platoon as much as possible and play those edge players on special teams. Offense and Defense for a fully platooned team means 22 "athletes", basketball 5. When you throw in special teams to football you have a potential for 77 starting positions on the team! (KO, KOR, Punt, Punt Return, EP/FG) I certainly understand that most if not all high school teams will overlap kids on these "special" teams, but the potential is there to put 77 "starters" on the field on any given Friday night. In basketball and team is very deep if they go 4 or 5 into the bench. 7-10 good round ball players will have a good chance at a successful season.

 

I am by no means sold on the 6 class system for football but we're comparing apples and oranges with football having classes and Basketball not :sleep:

[westsider]

Guys,

 

Football is a TOTALLY different animal than basketball. Very good football teams, with big numbers, will platoon as much as possible and play those edge players on special teams. Offense and Defense for a fully platooned team means 22 "athletes", basketball 5. When you throw in special teams to football you have a potential for 77 starting positions on the team! (KO, KOR, Punt, Punt Return, EP/FG) I certainly understand that most if not all high school teams will overlap kids on these "special" teams, but the potential is there to put 77 "starters" on the field on any given Friday night. In basketball and team is very deep if they go 4 or 5 into the bench. 7-10 good round ball players will have a good chance at a successful season.

 

I am by no means sold on the 6 class system for football but we're comparing apples and oranges with football having classes and Basketball not :sleep:

Good. I no longer feel like a lone voice in the wilderness.:lol:

[The Golfer]

There are time/space constraints for golf, CC and track, as they're semi individual sports. What's the dress limit for soccer?

 

 

I would imagine that ONE big reason there's no dress limit in football is that there's an infinite number of substitution opportunities. You CAN play 100 kids, and it not be silly.

 

The tournament dress limit for soccer is 24. I can not find a ruling for regular season play but if you go to the KHSAA web site and go under the tournament rules and go under the section of Contestants you will find the player limit rules.

 

Basketball is 15, Baseball is 21, Cross Country can enter 10 but only use 7 at a meet. and it is 21 in Girls Fast Pitch Softball.

 

The rules says you can put as many names as you want on the team roster but these are the maximum numbers you can have dressed for the event.

 

Football says that you can have an unlimited amount.

 

I got this from the rulebook under tournament play for these sports anyone is more than free to look at them and if you see something different let me know. But this is what the rulebook says.

 

This seems weird to me that all of these sports have dress limits for tournament play but football does not.

[leatherneck]

The tournament dress limit for soccer is 24. I can not find a ruling for regular season play but if you go to the KHSAA web site and go under the tournament rules and go under the section of Contestants you will find the player limit rules.

 

Basketball is 15, Baseball is 21, Cross Country can enter 10 but only use 7 at a meet. and it is 21 in Girls Fast Pitch Softball.

 

The rules says you can put as many names as you want on the team roster but these are the maximum numbers you can have dressed for the event.

 

Football says that you can have an unlimited amount.

 

I got this from the rulebook under tournament play for these sports anyone is more than free to look at them and if you see something different let me know. But this is what the rulebook says.

 

This seems weird to me that all of these sports have dress limits for tournament play but football does not.

 

Golfer, with all respect (and I really mean it), I must TOTALLY disagree with you on this issue. Even if having 110 players on a team does give one team an advantage in a game (which I don't agree with at all) unless we are all hypocrits, the merits of a whole lot of kids getting to participate in athletics (because we all say athletics is a very important part of the educational process) more than out ways any advantage does it not?

 

Frankly I am in favor or removing any size limit for any sport that safety and space limits permits. Realistically you can only get so many kids sitting courtside at a basketball game. But put them in the front row if you want to. I don't care. They are not going to impact the outcome of any game this year most likely. Admittedly by being able to participate on the team and getting to practice all year long, they should be better next year players next year, but surely the coaches in this state don't want kids to get the opportunity to better themselves. Please tell me that's no so! Put them all on the soccer team if you want. Let them all be on the golf team if they want. Why do we have those limits in other sports to begin with? To me, most of those limits should be local school funding issues, not KHSAA issues, anyway.

 

I am really disappointed that this "level playing field" tidal wave has now gotten to the point that we are talking about depriving kids the opportunity to participate in sports, to belong to something, to be a part of a team, to have the best opportunity to become the best athlete possible. And its going to penalize everyone. If the coach cuts the sophomores, it will severely hinder their chances of being as good of a football player as a senior as they otherwise could have been (can you imagine the set back from losing one half of your practice time going into your senior year? Is that the real purpose of this squad limit idea: to lower the talent level on the good teams to the talent level of the average and poor teams by depriving the amount of practice times some kids get? When you really pull back the sheets and look what's under them, this idea is not a pretty sight).

 

Plus the kids who play for the love of the game, that don't have the talent to play in the games but have the passion for football and love for their teammates will most likely get summarily dismissed due to squad size limitations and will basically be told: "you cannot be on the team because the coaches of Ky. are more interested in their team winning than your participation on a team". And you can dress that bunch of crud up any way you want to, but you still have a bunch of crud. Terrible, terrible, terrible.

 

I personally think a whole lot of coaches and other supporters need to think again why they got into coaching and what the REAL purpose of athletics in high school is all about (which is a completely different mission than college and the pro's). This concept really disappoints me. Sorry if I've offended anyone out there (especially you Golfer, whom I consider a friend), but this idea of limiting squad size really is totally contrary to what we are supposed to be all about in high school sports. And for the first time blatantly places the priority to win in front of participation in athletics.

 

Finally, I think the KHSAA, the coaches, the administrators need to be real careful in what they are pushing for. There is growing amount of attention in Frankfort being focused on what is going on and the proposals being bantered about, and its not favorable attention if you know what I mean. The State Board is watching closely. More and more legislators are getting involved. Most of you don't realize this, but the KHSAA basically has a year to year "contract" with the State Board of Education to serve as its agent and run high school sports in Ky. If things keep going that way, it is very possible (notice I didn't say likely) that some legislators are going to start aggresively pushing for another way/entity to run high school sports. And please don't say that will never happen. It just may and you'll just have to trust me on this.

 

Golfer, if a 4A school only has 40 players on it what's the real issue here? When we push aside the curtains and look back stage, what we are doing here is simply penalizing the programs that do a great job of getting kids to play sports to help out those that don't or can't get the kids to come out. Usually, I'll admit, its the successful teams that do a good job of getting kids to play on the team because admittedly people like being part of a winner. What you want to do is to penalize successful programs because they are successful. That is not only totally against everything this country is about, it should be totally against everything that a coach is about. If this idea doesn't work, what's next: the number of coaches per team; the number of hours you can work out during the off season; the dollars spent on athletic programs; the number of kids per team that are able to bench press 350 lbs or run a 4.6; the square footage of locker room and weight room per player? Are we going to start eliminating a game or two from each state champions following season because they got to practice 5 extra weeks during the championship season? Where will this end? Because if we can start with telling kids they can't play high school sports in order to "level the playing field" all those other options have to be viable in some folks minds. I'm sorry but the coaches and other people pushing this idea are just wrong.

 

Dang it if Chuck Smith could do it, every coach at every school in Ky can do it. And if a school has a coach who isn't getting it done and winning a state championship is so dang important to that school, tell that coach its time to move on and get some one who can get it done.

 

Sorry for the long post, its a two cup'er, and sorry if I offended folks (again, particularly you Golfer), but when you start messing with kids being able to participate in high school sports, I get testy real quick. Its totally against what high school sports are supposed to be about.

 

And finally to comply with the rules I'll address the original question of this thread: I do think that there should be classifications in basketball and soccer, but only two or at most 3.

[runningref]

In football, the latest greatest idea is to go to six classes:

 

Click here for details on the six classes

 

If all the great powers that be believe we need six classes in football why is it all of them only believe we need one class in basketball? I never thought this was rocket science but it must be because it is over my head.

 

Anyone?

In basketball, you can get all of the kids into the playoffs (or all of those that choose to enter the district tournament) with one class, because you can play multiple games in one week. In football however, because you generally can play only one game per week, it would take sixteen weeks to play a one class system with everyone in. So you divide into classes, not to mention the numbers disparity. The philosophy of coaches has shifted as some of the "newer" generation is more comfortable with more teams getting an opportunity for the playoffs. Just like baseball, basketball, softball, soccer and volleyball.

 

It is understandable that those who have attended Beechwood, and other schools such as Highlands, Cov. Cath, Danville, St. X, Trinity, might not all be for it. They haven't been shut out of the current system very often. But for the others, who have not tasted the playoffs, that's where the impetus has come from.

 

Plus, it helps with the great disparity that exists in both the top Class (4A, with actually enrollments from 1040 to 2100) and bottom Class (1A, 101 to 531).

 

Or at least that's what the coaches are saying that were on the committee.

[Dlbdonn]

As far as Soccer teams limitations I believe the KHSAA defers to USA soccer who in turn defers to FIFA the Parent organisation in Zurich Swirzerland. I know that the youth soccer organisations in Kentucky do.

[MoDawg]

It depends on which system we're talking about.

 

Four classes? Personally, I'm fine with it.

 

The six-class plan, in my view, has nothingto do with principle. It has much more to do with selfishness, the desire to ease the pressures on coaches and the misguided notion that more classes and "more exposure" will help get kids scholarships to play college football.

 

Bottom line ... football and basketball are not comparable sports. The dynamics are so different. Football is so much more numbers-intensive and dependent on team play. Basketball is a team sport, but one individual can have much more of an impact on the court than he can on the football field.

 

I like the basketball setup just the way it is. Small schools get two chances to make a splash on the statewide scene, and everyone still shoots for the same prize at the end.

 

Take pressure off of coaches?

[Pigskin]

In basketball, you can get all of the kids into the playoffs (or all of those that choose to enter the district tournament) with one class, because you can play multiple games in one week. In football however, because you generally can play only one game per week, it would take sixteen weeks to play a one class system with everyone in. So you divide into classes, not to mention the numbers disparity. The philosophy of coaches has shifted as some of the "newer" generation is more comfortable with more teams getting an opportunity for the playoffs. Just like baseball, basketball, softball, soccer and volleyball.

 

It is understandable that those who have attended Beechwood, and other schools such as Highlands, Cov. Cath, Danville, St. X, Trinity, might not all be for it. They haven't been shut out of the current system very often. But for the others, who have not tasted the playoffs, that's where the impetus has come from.

 

Plus, it helps with the great disparity that exists in both the top Class (4A, with actually enrollments from 1040 to 2100) and bottom Class (1A, 101 to 531).

 

Or at least that's what the coaches are saying that were on the committee.

I see where you are coming from.

[Play 2 Win]

\

 

There are 355 D1 basketball schools in this country, so its not a stretch to have 2 D1 players on 1 team every few years, if a coach works his tail off to promote kids like BMR does.

 

Plus those kids on that team are LEGENDS

 

And it helps when one of the kids grows to be 6'10"