When is Kentucky Going to Find the "Right" Formula?

[Ram]

Valid concern about the frequency of change in classification. I think 6 classes is here to stay, so that issue of possible change in the future can be put to bed. Plus the Board of Control stated that the re-alignment done starting next year will be for 4 years, subject to any school having a major change in enrollment ( I think they used 12% change as the barometer of a major change) and of course subject to new schools opening and schools closing. So I do think the KHSAA shares your concern that it's time to bring a little stability to the classification/alignment/districting issues.

 

Thanks for the information and I'm glad they are going to leave it alone for four years. I'm not as concerned about six classes versus four, or class size, just the number of changes at one short time.

[Ram]

Let's face it ... the entire system for football in this state was changed because of two schools, Trinity and St. Xavier. If they were somehow eliminated from the process, we would still have four classes.

 

I have to agree, it was about those two schools. I don't think it had nearly as much to do with the small school as it did with Trinity and St. Xavier.

[malachicrunch]

Let's face it ... the entire system for football in this state was changed because of two schools, Trinity and St. Xavier. If they were somehow eliminated from the process, we would still have four classes.

 

What has changed for X and T since we went to 6 classes? What has changed for all of the other programs that were classed with X and T when we had 4 classes?

[ColonelMike]

I have to agree, it was about those two schools. I don't think it had nearly as much to do with the small school as it did with Trinity and St. Xavier.

 

I really don't see how the move to 6 classes was of any significant benefit to X or T...

 

That said, I've gotten to the point I don't really care how many classes there are any more. I'm just tired of all the re-districting every couple of years. I'd like to see the district rivalries established and developed...

[Ram]

I really don't see how the move to 6 classes was of any significant benefit to X or T...

 

That said, I've gotten to the point I don't really care how many classes there are any more. I'm just tired of all the re-districting every couple of years. I'd like to see the district rivalries established and developed...

Just think of the timing. Big dispute over public/private, Kentucky hadn't changed it's football structure significantly in quite a while, then boom...........six classes. What do you think caused the six class thing to happen?

 

But, I'm with you, I don't care how many classes anymore.

[born2reign]

 

I would also be interested in knowing if other states change their alignment as frequently as we have lately.

 

While Texas doesn't deviate from the 5 class system, there is plenty of movement within that system by schools based on enrollment. There are actually two divisions within each class- so every year there are 2 5A state champs, 2 4A state champs and so on. This is based on enrollment. Also, teams will move from class to class; Denton Guyer HS was a 4A power that went up to 5A this year and this happens regularly. There is even a private school that petitioned to play the public schools (Dallas Jesuit, I believe). There is a different class system for private schools and this tends to be more stable.

 

While I do not like the amount of movement within the KHSAA's current system, this happens in other states as well.

 

That being said- Kentucky should be a three class state, IMO. Four was a stretch, but 6 is just awful, IMO.

[mcpapa]

I really don't see how the move to 6 classes was of any significant benefit to X or T...

 

That said, I've gotten to the point I don't really care how many classes there are any more. I'm just tired of all the re-districting every couple of years. I'd like to see the district rivalries established and developed...

 

A. In my uninformed opinion, the move to 6 classes wasn't done to benefit X and T. Quite the opposite - it was done to give several more schools the opportunity to win a state championship without ever running into X or T.

 

B. I agree 100% with your final thought. Let's dance with the one what brung us for a while.

[mcpapa]

I understand your points and most of them have some validity. I'll disagree with the point about the regular season meaning next to nothing from the standpoint that I believe every team should want to win every game, and thus every regular season game should mean a lot. Furthermore, even if you are right, how does that make football different from other sports? In basketball, where the district is drawn not seeded, would you say the regular season games mean next to nothing? Baseball? Soccer? Etc.

 

Guys I'm not going to argue that 6 classes hasn't watered down football and hasn't made it easier for some teams to win state. I can't and I won't. On the other hand, I don't accept the "then we should have 219 classes" any more than I'd accept the "we should have just one class" argument either. It's a balancing act: one on side is decreasing the size disparity and hopefully increasing enthusiasm for football; on the other side is making it to easy to win state. Is it balanced correctly? Heck, I don't know for sure and no one else does either at this point. What I do know is that the enthusiasm for football at Holmes jumped up pretty quickly at Holmes when it no longer had to face Highlands in the district. They tasted some success and are building on it (I'm hoping enthusiasm for football has gotten strong enough at Holmes that it can "survive" being placed in 4A with Highlands next year). My guess is that other programs have benefitted the way Holmes has. Maybe I'm all wet on this, but I think it bears waiting and watching before we declare it (6 classes) a failure.

 

Hyperbole is lost on some...

 

On the second bolded; I don't necessarily disagree, but how will we measure success? Suppose that even with the reduction to 32 Class A schools, 2 or 3 decide to drop their programs; while a couple of new faces win championships in other classes. Has the system resulted in success or failure?

 

I'm having a tough time operationalizing "success" or "failure", I guess.

[History]

I don't like the six classes either-never have. As others have said four was a stretch, but so be it. It probably helps when you apply for a job in another state to say, "I have coached my team to the playoffs the last five years." What isn't said is the huge percentage of teams that make the playoffs.

 

As to the success or failure of this-I would say the fans generally don't care for it, but the schools probably like it as another week in the playoff hunt can generate more revenue for the program.

 

For the record, I think the district runner up advancing in basketball and baseball is ignorant too. Too many chances, and certainly not educational for real life, when often times you get one shot at an interview or to make the sale, etc.

[ColonelMike]

I don't like the six classes either-never have. As others have said four was a stretch, but so be it. It probably helps when you apply for a job in another state to say, "I have coached my team to the playoffs the last five years." What isn't said is the huge percentage of teams that make the playoffs.

 

As to the success or failure of this-I would say the fans generally don't care for it, but the schools probably like it as another week in the playoff hunt can generate more revenue for the program.

 

For the record, I think the district runner up advancing in basketball and baseball is ignorant too. Too many chances, and certainly not educational for real life, when often times you get one shot at an interview or to make the sale, etc.

 

Not sure I can agree, although I understand your point. "Real life" is full of "second chances" (perhaps not third, and fourth chances, but definitely second chances). Does anyone who was in KY (and who closely followed KY basketball) actually believe that the 1979 Lexington Lafayette Generals team under Jock Sutherland wasn't by far and away the best team in KY?? I would suggest that it wasn't even close...but the Generals did lose ONE game all season, losing in their district finals (to Henry Clay, if memory serves). They then blasted the same team in the Region 11 finals en route to the state championship...

[westsider]

I really don't see how the move to 6 classes was of any significant benefit to X or T...

No one said that it was ... my contention is that their dominance of 4A was a primary factor in the decision to go with six classes.

[leatherneck]

Thanks for the information and I'm glad they are going to leave it alone for four years. I'm not as concerned about six classes versus four, or class size, just the number of changes at one short time.

 

You are welcome.

[leatherneck]

Can you speak to what I mentioned a little earlier that if the KHSAA had split public and private then there would still be four classes? I ask because I don't really know and it seemed like after public/private failed football went straight to six classes. I've always been curious about that. Of course I might be asking a speculative question!

 

I'm sorry but I don't know the answer to your question because I don't believe the KHSAA ever got to that point. Once the public private split was shot down by the Board, there would have been no reason to further discuss what would have happened with the number of classes in football. I'm told it wasn't discussed by the Board prior to the Board voting on the split.

 

As for westsider's strong statement that the move to 6 classes was because of 2 schools and if they were somehow eliminated we'd still be at 4 classes, I'm not sure how he can say that with such certainty, but maybe he knows stuff about the KHSAA Board that I don't know.

[gchs_uk9]

I'm sorry but I don't know the answer to your question because I don't believe the KHSAA ever got to that point. Once the public private split was shot down by the Board, there would have been no reason to further discuss what would have happened with the number of classes in football. I'm told it wasn't discussed by the Board prior to the Board voting on the split.

 

Not a problem. It was pure speculation anyway!

[malachicrunch]

No one said that it was ... my contention is that their dominance of 4A was a primary factor in the decision to go with six classes.

 

You keep saying this. I'm not getting it. How was moving to 6 classes going to end the dominance of X and T?