A Stupid Idea?

[Fastbreak]

Fastback, what do you think of the GZ mosque idea?

I dunno... after reading all of Habib's thoughtful words, I think we might just need to all get behind a Muslim Mall and Amusement Park complex on the actual Ground Zero site. It's ignorant, naive, bigoted, racist and what the heck... homophobic too somehow for me to suggest that any special consideration be affored the families of over 3,000 dead Americans at the site of an actual battlefield. I now see the foolishness of my ways.

[Fastbreak]

Your argument not too long ago was that this mosque should be prohibited. Now you merely wish to say it's a stupid idea. While I disagree, I don't care enough at this point to split hairs with you over that. Suffice to say that I don't believe Islam to be inherently evil, nor do I believe it's presence near Ground Zero is a signal of victory. If a Christian church wanted to be placed there no one would have batted an eye and in an ideal America the same would occur with the placement of a mosque. Unfortunately we are far from that and I find it troubling how enraged people have become over it.

I don't know about you Habib, but I often begin with a preconceived notion or set of ideas that actually refines and sharpens as I think it through, research, read and hear other opinions on the matter. There are some generous souls that would call this "intellectual curiosity".

 

If I am guilty of anything, it is beginning to post before I have fully researched and thought out a position that has evolved over several days. Believe it or not, I actually come to this forum for recreation. I am guilty of approaching many posts in a less than "life and death... you may be called upon to fall on your sword" attitude. I've never attacked it like a chess match calculating several moves in advance.

 

On this matter we just see things differently.

[History]

I think it is stupid also, and would not be for a Chrsitian Church being built on those hallowed grounds either.

[cammando]

Judge Joseph Charles, in denying the restraining order to the woman after her divorce, ruled that her ex-husband felt he had behaved according to his Muslim beliefs -- and that he did not have "criminal desire to or intent to sexually assault" his wife. http://www.thefoxnation.com/justice/2010/08/06/sharia-law-comes-new-jersey?page=3

[Bluegrasscard]

“A Call to Prayer From the World Trade Center Rubble. Islamic Da’wah from the Heart of America, Post 911.”

 

This is the title from a book by the imam that is driving this - Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.

 

“Da’wah is Islamic proselytizing. And in the Islamic law, da’wah precedes jihad. You call the nonbelievers to Islam. And if they refuse to accept it, then you initiate the jihad against them. But the whole goal of both da’wah and jihad is to impose Islamic law or Sharia upon the nonbelievers as a political system, not as a religious one.”

 

http://www.911familiesforamerica.org/?p=3941

 

[rockmom]

I dunno... after reading all of Habib's thoughtful words, I think we might just need to all get behind a Muslim Mall and Amusement Park complex on the actual Ground Zero site. It's ignorant, naive, bigoted, racist and what the heck... homophobic too somehow for me to suggest that any special consideration be affored the families of over 3,000 dead Americans at the site of an actual battlefield. I now see the foolishness of my ways.

 

C'mon, FB. That's sarcastic, overblown hyperbole, and you know it.

[75center]

Judge Joseph Charles, in denying the restraining order to the woman after her divorce, ruled that her ex-husband felt he had behaved according to his Muslim beliefs -- and that he did not have "criminal desire to or intent to sexually assault" his wife. http://www.thefoxnation.com/justice/2010/08/06/sharia-law-comes-new-jersey?page=3

 

Very, very disturbing.

[UKMustangFan]

Judge Joseph Charles, in denying the restraining order to the woman after her divorce, ruled that her ex-husband felt he had behaved according to his Muslim beliefs -- and that he did not have "criminal desire to or intent to sexually assault" his wife. http://www.thefoxnation.com/justice/2010/08/06/sharia-law-comes-new-jersey?page=3

 

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

Also you fail to mention that the ruling was overturned.

[Fastbreak]

C'mon, FB. That's sarcastic, overblown hyperbole, and you know it.

Yep... glad you recognized it as such! :thumb:

 

I find it amusing that you feel the need to highlight what is obviously my deliberate and humorously sarcastic use of “overblown hyperbole” while giving a pass to the sincere use of “overblown hyperbole” to grasp and reach and stretch to demonize me as a lying, bigoted, racist, xenophobe “hater” intolerant of other’s beliefs. Amazing…

 

Have any of you watched the video I posted?

[rockmom]

Yep... glad you recognized it as such! :thumb:

 

I find it amusing that you feel the need to highlight what is obviously my deliberate and humorously sarcastic use of “overblown hyperbole” while giving a pass to the sincere use of “overblown hyperbole” to grasp and reach and stretch to demonize me as a lying, bigoted, racist, xenophobe “hater” intolerant of other’s beliefs. Amazing…

 

Have any of you watched the video I posted?

 

I'd love to, but it's blocked here at work, and my home computer is fried. At home I have to resort to posting from my phone, so I haven't tackled trying to view the video, as it's too challenging.

 

As to your (again hyperbolic) persecution, I found those disecting your posts to be doing so in a a logical manner, and it seemed to me they deliberately didn't use hyperbole.

[Fastbreak]

I'd love to, but it's blocked here at work, and my home computer is fried. At home I have to resort to posting from my phone, so I haven't tackled trying to view the video, as it's too challenging.

 

As to your (again hyperbolic) persecution, I found those disecting your posts to be doing so in a a logical manner, and it seemed to me they deliberately didn't use hyperbole.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Of course...

 

Since you can't view a video that clearly presents why some of us have legitimate concerns... how about answering my previous question to you?

 

So... does that mean you would be in support of an initiative to construct a 13 story Crusader House dedicated to Pope Urban II in Ma'arrat al-Numan for the purpose of building bridges between peoples of all faiths?

[rockmom]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Of course...

 

Since you can't view a video that clearly presents why some of us have legitimate concerns... how about answering my previous question to you?

 

Well, that question is a bit difficult to answer, as Catholic communities and churches WERE established during both the Inquisition and Crusades in areas that were decidedly not Catholic prior. So, I guess, in the overall scheme of things, sure. I'd support it, as I guess I've passively demonstrated simply by being Catholic and defending THE faith.

[Fastbreak]

Well, that question is a bit difficult to answer, as Catholic communities and churches WERE established during both the Inquisition and Crusades in areas that were decidedly not Catholic prior. So, I guess, in the overall scheme of things, sure. I'd support it, as I guess I've passively demonstrated simply by being Catholic and defending THE faith.

While I acknowledge your adherence to a logistically consistent position, I do not believe that you honestly and passionately believe that such a structure at the site of one of the most horrendous atrocities attributed to the Crusaders by the Muslim world would be the intelligent, compassionate and healing solution to interfaith conflicts in this day and age.

 

Even though these events occurred nearly 1,000 years ago, there is no way THE Church today, would suggest something so obviously painful to Muslims and to any legitimate hopes of building genuine interfaith common ground.

 

You are smart enough to know that simply stating what your heart tells you is correct for one such proposed structure should apply to the other. Are you truly so committed to a political ideology that you cannot simply affirm what your heart tells you is true?

[Bluegrasscard]

You need to look at the leader of this project and look at his goals.

 

The book I have posted was published in the 2004 time frame. It was released in English as - What’s Right with Islam Is What’s Right with America. But that was renamed version of the original title - A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11.

 

Basically, the goal of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is to use this mega building to proselytize Islam. He could do his duty of Dawa anywhere. But he wants to do it - on the rubble of the World Trade Center. This location is key to him. His book is clear on what it is he wants. Simply, he want to stand on the rubble and recruit for Islam.

 

http://article.nationalreview.com/438616/raufs-dawa-from-the-world-trade-center-rubble/andrew-c-mccarthy?page=2

 

From this article:

 

"Dawa... is is the missionary work by which Islam is spread...Islam is a comprehensive political, social, and economic system with its own authoritarian legal framework, sharia, which aspires to govern all aspects of life. "

 

"Now it emerges that a “special, non-commercial edition” of this book was later produced, with Feisal’s cooperation, by two American tentacles of the Muslim Brotherhood: the Islamic Society of North America and the International Institute of Islamic Thought. The book’s copyright page tells the tale:

 

....

 

Both ISNA and IIIT have been up to their necks in the promotion of Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood’s ruthless Palestinian branch, which is pledged by charter to the destruction of Israel. In fact, both ISNA and IIIT were cited by the Justice Department as unindicted co-conspirators in a crucial terrorism-financing case involving the channeling of tens of millions of dollars to Hamas through an outfit called the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development. For the last 15 years, Hamas has been a designated terrorist organization under U.S. law."

 

I will not transfer this imam's goals to the majority of the Muslim community. But that is one imam wants seems to be clear. An mega Islamic recruiting center using the 9/11 attack as the draw. "From the Rubble..."!! There was little, if any, actual rubble left in 2004 at ground zero. The phrase is used to brag and brag in a sensational way. That is why the title had to be changed when the book was converted to English.

 

Also, doing some research I found that foreign funding of this mosque should not be considered unusual. Saudi Arabia funds most of the mosques in the US. They are not self-sustaining without this funding.

[Zoot Soup]

Judging by some of the recent posts in this thread, I think it might be time to shut it down. Or, at the very least, start a new thread. We're starting to get non-sequitur posts about how backwards Muslims are and that's neither relevant nor constructive to our discussion. Some on this thread want to villianize Islam and have done a pretty good job of doing so, however misguided they may be.

 

As yes, FB, I have watched your video. I did some background research on the (former?) Muslim they interviewed and it would appear that he's anything but an impartial judge of what's going on. He's Arab, yes, but in terms of his beliefs, he might as well be Israeli.